[Ele] 5.4 Secondary stats: Haste vs Mastery

[Fallenstar]

Should we shoot for haste until we are at a certain ilvl?

[Stormrayder]

didnt see anyone mention that the mastery comes into play with the legendary meta gem. it procs a haste buff and an ele shammy has the highest proc rate of this gem so there is no point in stacking haste because you will use chain light in quiet a few fights and mastery synergises so well with echo of the elements and that boosts chain light and aoe dmg soo much

[Sock]

I've been kind've confused lately with my shammy. I've seen some shamans with 545ilvl going haste/crit or intll/crit. Then I see some gemming pure mastery and they are all spec'd the same.

Dat necro.

No sense in gemming crit. If they're ilvl 545 and already stacking mastery, they're gonna get smoked by a shaman at the same level stacking haste (unless it's a burst fight, which don't exist).

didnt see anyone mention that the mastery comes into play with the legendary meta gem. it procs a haste buff and an ele shammy has the highest proc rate of this gem so there is no point in stacking haste because you will use chain light in quiet a few fights and mastery synergises so well with echo of the elements and that boosts chain light and aoe dmg soo much

Er, no. You're wrong, and here's why:

Yes, the legendary meta procs a haste buff. Yes, Elemental has the highest proc rate. No, this does not automatically mean there is no point in stacking haste (quite the opposite, really). It's already been simmed out that in AOE situations, a haste build will actually perform better than mastery build, and the logic behind it is sound. More haste means more casts, which means throwing out more spells within a given time frame, which means more chances to proc the mastery and Echo.

I honestly don't think you should be stacking mastery at all until you're at around ilvl 560, and even with a haste build like what I've been doing, you'll still have quite a bit. 36% haste and 74% mastery is pretty solid for heroics (and I've only now hit the point where it's better for me to stack mastery).

[Deleted]

It's already been simmed out that in AOE situations, a haste build will actually perform better than mastery build, and the logic behind it is sound. More haste means more casts, which means throwing out more spells within a given time frame, which means more chances to proc the mastery and Echo.

You do relise that you will reach the gcd cap on chain lightning (with meta procc) at really low hastelevels ! If we are not talking 500ish ilvls here i have to say your logic is off sir For aoe mastery is the way to go , even crit outshines haste for pure cl cleave.

// Hózke Eu Aerie-Peak

[Sock]

You do relise that you will reach the gcd cap on chain lightning (with meta procc) at really low hastelevels ! If we are not talking 500ish ilvls here i have to say your logic is off sir For aoe mastery is the way to go , even crit outshines haste for pure cl cleave.

// Hózke Eu Aerie-Peak

Again, incorrect. I'm sitting at 36% haste. With the meta active, that's 66% haste, yet my cast time is still at 1.13 seconds, which isn't the GCD. I am at a "high" haste level and I don't hit the GCD. Even with Bloodlust active, the GCD isn't much of an issue, as latency usually prevents any spell clipping.

At lower gear levels, and even into upper levels (560+), haste will yield a larger DPS increase than mastery. The only times in which mastery will have more value than haste are fights in which there is near-constant cleave, such as Galakras or Fallen Protectors (if your raid stacks them). If it's single target, haste wins out.

Not only that, but to say that crit would be better than haste for cleave is laughable at best.

[kenn9530]

For single target haste is slightly better, aoe mastery is slightly better both ways are still within 10k of each other but there is multiple fights in SoO that require aoe so withe LMG and 550 ilvl plus you should be focusing on mastery.

Its mainly about the gear you have that simming will determine which stat to go for buts its easy to maintain over 33% haste while going all out mastery everywhere else.

[Deleted]

Again, incorrect. I'm sitting at 36% haste. With the meta active, that's 66% haste, yet my cast time is still at 1.13 seconds, which isn't the GCD. I am at a "high" haste level and I don't hit the GCD. Even with Bloodlust active, the GCD isn't much of an issue, as latency usually prevents any spell clipping.

A

Im at 33% haste ( 95% mastery) 1.13cast on chaing lightning without the meta 0.867 with meta. I suggest you log in to the game, go to the training Dummy , cast , and see for yourself : ) gl

Sry for bad english, not my first language

// Hózke Eu Aerie-Peak

[Sock]

Im at 33% haste ( 95% mastery) 1.13cast on chaing lightning without the meta 0.867 with meta. I suggest you log in to the game, go to the training Dummy , cast , and see for yourself : ) gl

Sry for bad english, not my first language

// Hózke Eu Aerie-Peak

I was talking about Lightning Bolt (and Lava Burst for that matter). The Chain Lightning cast time really doesn't matter, as there's so few situations in which you'll be heavily using it on a boss. You've got phase 1 Galakras, Fallen Protectors (if you stack them), Dark Shamans, and phase 1 Garrosh. Other than that, you are not cleaving on a boss, nor should you be.

If you're using Chain Lightning for single target, you've got bigger problems.

[Deleted]

It's already been simmed out that in AOE situations, a haste build will actually perform better than mastery build, and the logic behind it is sound. More haste means more casts, which means throwing out more spells within a given time frame, which means more chances to proc the mastery and Echo

That was the original quote i did.

I was obv talking about chain lightning in the first place, or are you using lightning bolt and lavaburst in aoe situations? I guess you just got it all wrong , my apologise. I can add to your list malkorok hc , pretty much use cl as filler all the time when the add is up. Paragons (only needed on hc) use it together with AG for one of the best healing cds ingame, thok bats (hc), nazgrim if you tank boss where adds spawn, Sha has quite some clave, same with norushen can cleave adds off boss. That leaves us with pretty much every single encounter in SoO . So my advice to you all shamans is go heavy mastery once you reach SoO HC, cleave is what we are good at so why not make it the best it can be ?

// // Hózke Eu Aerie-Peak

wanted to post a link to some loggs to prove that i know what im talking about, but gg cant !

[orderschvank]

I was talking about Lightning Bolt (and Lava Burst for that matter). The Chain Lightning cast time really doesn't matter, as there's so few situations in which you'll be heavily using it on a boss. You've got phase 1 Galakras, Fallen Protectors (if you stack them), Dark Shamans, and phase 1 Garrosh. Other than that, you are not cleaving on a boss, nor should you be.

If you're using Chain Lightning for single target, you've got bigger problems.

this makes me feel like the only ele shaman who uses CL to get people out of MC

[QuiksLE]

That was the original quote i did.

I was obv talking about chain lightning in the first place, or are you using lightning bolt and lavaburst in aoe situations? I guess you just got it all wrong , my apologise. I can add to your list malkorok hc , pretty much use cl as filler all the time when the add is up. Paragons (only needed on hc) use it together with AG for one of the best healing cds ingame, thok bats (hc), nazgrim if you tank boss where adds spawn, Sha has quite some clave, same with norushen can cleave adds off boss. That leaves us with pretty much every single encounter in SoO . So my advice to you all shamans is go heavy mastery once you reach SoO HC, cleave is what we are good at so why not make it the best it can be ?

// // Hózke Eu Aerie-Peak

wanted to post a link to some loggs to prove that i know what im talking about, but gg cant !

http://worldoflogs.com/guilds/67961/
And agreed, in current content gear mastery is the way to go. inb4 "But simulations show that haste is better"

- - - Updated - - -

Should we shoot for haste until we are at a certain ilvl?

You should shoot for haste until you have a certain rating. You should get 33-35% haste and then you should focus on mastery

[Deleted]

this makes me feel like the only ele shaman who uses CL to get people out of MC

Nah same here, there are just so many situations where CL is amazing this tier : )

And agreed, in current content gear mastery is the way to go. inb4 "But simulations show that haste is better"

big up!

[Stormrayder]

Er, no. You're wrong, and here's why:

Yes, the legendary meta procs a haste buff. Yes, Elemental has the highest proc rate. No, this does not automatically mean there is no point in stacking haste (quite the opposite, really). It's already been simmed out that in AOE situations, a haste build will actually perform better than mastery build, and the logic behind it is sound. More haste means more casts, which means throwing out more spells within a given time frame, which means more chances to proc the mastery and Echo.

I honestly don't think you should be stacking mastery at all until you're at around ilvl 560, and even with a haste build like what I've been doing, you'll still have quite a bit. 36% haste and 74% mastery is pretty solid for heroics (and I've only now hit the point where it's better for me to stack mastery).

I was talking about Lightning Bolt (and Lava Burst for that matter). The Chain Lightning cast time really doesn't matter, as there's so few situations in which you'll be heavily using it on a boss. You've got phase 1 Galakras, Fallen Protectors (if you stack them), Dark Shamans, and phase 1 Garrosh. Other than that, you are not cleaving on a boss, nor should you be.

If you're using Chain Lightning for single target, you've got bigger problems.

Contradict urself much? read the post and understand when someone is talking about aoe.

[Anzen]

I've been searching the webs for Mastery vs Haste debates in 5.4.
But I didn't find a clear answer.

Is this the way it goes:
Haste until around ilvl550. After that haste is good at single target, mastery is better for AoE fights.

These guys from Method seem to prioritize mastery even above intellect:
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...A0bzz/advanced
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...hmstr/advanced

And Ask Mr Robot wants me to stack mastery as well.

Any thoughts?

I think you seem to have it wrong. Gemming mastery doesn't mean you prioritize mastery above intellect - it means you prioritize 2 mastery over 1 intellect.

Because of the synergy between Haste and Mastery (the more Haste you have, the more beneficial Mastery will be), your current Haste rating will state whether gemming Mastery is better for you than gemming Intellect.

The point you should swap from Intellect to Mastery is around 8106 Haste, before this point you should be gemming Intellect & Haste. The point about Haste or Mastery being good on single target/AoE is redundant since, once you're spells hit the GCD under Haste effects, Haste drastically loses some if its power, whereas the Mastery soft-cap (100% Mastery - 3500) is a lot harder to reach whilst providing the highest stat weight the whole way there. If Haste is simming higher for you, you're most likely just under a FS tick point (15.01% / 25.03% / 34.99%) and should probably chuck one Haste gem in there to hit it.

In short; gemming Haste to 550ilvl seems silly tbh, gem Mastery (making sure to hit socket bonuses since 2 Mastery isn't that much better than 1 Intellect).

[VladimirM]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ndori/advanced

There is a high chance your hcWF bracers aren't enchanted