Delhi gang rapists sentenced to death.

[Velaniz]

Yeah, it's what their law states.



I know, I just think it's a bit hypocritical of India to formally allow the killing of rapists while being all fine with it if it's a husband raping a wife.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in...Legal_position

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital...hable_by_Death


Actually, I don't think that is the case at all. The most it says is this:

the decision of death penalty for the most extreme rape cases was approved by the Indian parliament

And this for more conventional rapes:

A new section, 376A has been added which states that if a person committing the offence of sexual assault, "inflicts an injury which causes the death of the person or causes the person to be in a persistent vegetative state, shall be punished with rigorous imprisonment for a term which shall not be less than twenty years, but which may extend to imprisonment for life, which shall mean the remainder of that person’s natural life, or with death."[54] In the case of "gang rape", persons involved regardless of their gender shall be punished with rigorous imprisonment for a term which shall not be less than twenty years, but which may extend to life and shall pay compensation to the victim which shall be reasonable to meet the medical expenses and rehabilitation of the victim.

[Themius]

23%, 25%, whatever, it's all wrong. Think about it. 27000 rapes happen in India every year. If you go to the extreme and assume every single one of those rapes involves, say, 5 males (it doesn't) as part of a gang rape, that means 128 000 males participate in a rape per year in India. Given India's male life expectancy of 64 years, you get 8 200 000 males involved in a rape in one man's lifespan (by multiplying 128 000 with 64). Now that's just 1,3% of India's entire male population (assuming it's 600 million). Meaning the chances for a male to be a rapist in India are 1,3%. And that's assuming every rape is a gang rape involving 5 males, which it sure as hell ain't.

I am assuming that the overwhelming majority of those rapes go unreported.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...hey-raped.html

They surveyed 10,000 men across a few countries.

[Velaniz]

Well it took many years to define those cases as crime, even in modern "First World" countries. In Germany for example material rape was defined as a crime in 1997! Not even 20 years ago...

It's not so much a question of not being a modern "First World" country. There are other factors such as the fact that considering marital rapes to be equivalent to regular rapes has a huge potential for abuse in a hateful marriage.

- - - Updated - - -

I am assuming that the overwhelming majority of those rapes go unreported.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...hey-raped.html

They surveyed 10,000 men across a few countries.

His point still stands. His conjectured 1.3% is a far cry from 23%. Unless you want to go a step further and make another ridiculous claim like "93% of rapes in India aren't reported".

[Themius]

It's not so much a question of not being a modern "First World" country. There are other factors such as the fact that considering marital rapes to be equivalent to regular rapes has a huge potential for abuse in a hateful marriage.

- - - Updated - - -



His point still stands. His conjectured 1.3% is a far cry from 23%. Unless you want to go a step further and make another ridiculous claim like "93% of rapes in India aren't reported".

Given the amount of rapes that aren't reported here... I would say it wouldn't be a surprise if the majority of rapes aren't reported. Only about 3% of rapist actually spend time in jail... it's estimated to be that 54% of rapes aren't reported and that's in America. I would imagine the numbers would be far worse in places like that.

[josykay]

There are other factors such as the fact that considering marital rapes to be equivalent to regular rapes has a huge potential for abuse in a hateful marriage.

So because some persons may abuse it, we should rather keep it legal? So why don't we legalize rape in general, since some people may cause trouble by making false accusations? Thats complete nonsense and a rather baseless argument, just like the claim, that defining matrial rapes as a crime would rise the numbers of abortions because more women would get a reason to do that...

[Velaniz]

So because some persons may abuse it, we should rather keep it legal? So why don't we legalize rape in general, since some people may cause trouble by making false accusations? Thats complete nonsense and a rather baseless argument, just like the claim, that defining matrial rapes as a crime would rise the numbers of abortions because more women would get a reason to do that...

I agree it's nonsensical, but those are some of the reasons.

[Deleted]

What I find disturbing and disgusting is that whenever some newspaper or tv station mentiones India its always about another rape.

Apparently there is nothing else worth mentioning about this particular country, just rapists.

[Theodon]

23%, 25%, whatever, it's all wrong. Think about it. 27000 rapes happen in India every year. If you go to the extreme and assume every single one of those rapes involves, say, 5 males (it doesn't) as part of a gang rape, that means 128 000 males participate in a rape per year in India. Given India's male life expectancy of 64 years, you get 8 200 000 males involved in a rape in one man's lifespan (by multiplying 128 000 with 64). Now that's just 1,3% of India's entire male population (assuming it's 600 million). Meaning the chances for a male to be a rapist in India are 1,3%. And that's assuming every rape is a gang rape involving 5 males, which it sure as hell ain't.

As Themius mentioned, the amount of unreported rapes is probably quite high due to the social environment in India. There is also the other issue of what we would categorise as rape not being classed as rape in India, and also the poorer areas of the country where law violations aren't even quantified, let alone enforced. The police force being corrupt is another issue when it comes to reporting a more accurate number of rapes.

You've got Guru's blaming the victims and lawyers saying respectable women aren't raped, which serves to justify the crime of rape in the eyes of both the perpetrators and those whose duty it is to stop or punish those rapists. In some cases those who are responsible for catching the criminals are actually cooperating with them, which further perpetrates the social stance that women who are raped are probably deserving of being raped.

The caste system in India is also another problem, where a woman being raped by a man from a higher caste isn't seen as a violation, but rather how society should work in India by everyone involved but the victim. When that happens, not only does the law ignore it, but their neighbours also support the rapist.

There's also the fact that this isn't even a recent development in India, and the country has been hell on earth for anything with a vagina for decades. Many have forgotten about all of the other horrible rapes that have happened in the past.

India is just so badly developed, socially speaking, that nothing short of a total social revolution can sort out their problems, in my opinion. The problem is that India's population is so massive that a social revolution of that scale would destroy the country. It would also likely trigger a religious war, as well as a social one.

All of these issues when it comes to reporting rapes are ones that are rarely ever an influence in more developed countries, so the statistics of unreported rapes in said developed countries cannot be used as a comparison for the likelyhood of the amount of unreported rapes in India. The issues behind those rapes going unreported are much, much more influential than those in the USA or the UK, for example.

What I find disturbing and disgusting is that whenever some newspaper or tv station mentiones India its always about another rape.

Apparently there is nothing else worth mentioning about this particular country, just rapists.

Wide-spread rape is a result of the main problem India faces at the moment. They include the reasons behind the high levels of rape in India so people can get a more informed opinion on the countries state.

Reporting the main issue with a country isn't a problem when it comes to international news reporting. That's how it works. That is why we hear about the war in Syria, or the revolution in Egypt, or the nuclear threats from North Korea. Those are the main news points, so that is what we hear about.

[Wikiy]

I am assuming that the overwhelming majority of those rapes go unreported.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...hey-raped.html

They surveyed 10,000 men across a few countries.

I kind of find that hard to believe. If it's just 1/4 saying they did rape someone, then god knows how many more aren't saying a thing (and I assume most aren't willing to admit to committing such a horrible crime). It essentially means, if you're a man, you're more likely to be a monster than not.

I don't know, you can accuse me of being un-scientific and denying research all you want, but there's an alternative to that survey: statistics, numbers, and right now I'm going with that one. Sure, there is probably a lot of rape cases not getting reported, but for my-already-bloated 1,3% figure (which is a lot lower since most cases don't involve a gang rape and those that do probably involve less than 5 men) to reach something like 23%, 95% of rape cases would need to go unreported (19 out of 20).

[Themius]

I kind of find that hard to believe. If it's just 1/4 saying they did rape someone, then god knows how many more aren't saying a thing (and I assume most aren't willing to admit to committing such a horrible crime). It essentially means, if you're a man, you're more likely to be a monster than not.

I don't know, you can accuse me of being un-scientific and denying research all you want, but there's an alternative to that survey: statistics, numbers, and right now I'm going with that one. Sure, there is probably a lot of rape cases not getting reported, but for my-already-bloated 1,3% figure (which is a lot lower since most cases don't involve a gang rape and those that do probably involve less than 5 men) to reach something like 23%, 95% of rape cases would need to go unreported (19 out of 20).

In America 54% of rapes go unreported and compared to places like Indian we likely report very often. If the culture there is such that it's okay and not so much of a big deal, then the women are much less likely to speak up. There are countries where 70% of all women have been raped they don't really speak up.

[Wikiy]

Given the amount of rapes that aren't reported here... I would say it wouldn't be a surprise if the majority of rapes aren't reported. Only about 3% of rapist actually spend time in jail...

And that is related to the current topic... how exactly?

it's estimated to be that 54% of rapes aren't reported and that's in America.

How can something like that be estimated? If you don't have information on rapes that don't get reported (and you don't because, well, they don't get reported), then you can't draw a conclusion like that. You can go around asking men how many of them are rapists, but seeing as your survey says 25% of Asians are willing to admit they're rapists (think about how many actually are rapists (assuming the 25% are as well) but aren't willing to admit - what, most (if any) rapists are now honest, moral and selfless enough to admit to raping?), I'm perfectly fine with dismissing that survey as flawed.

I would imagine the numbers would be far worse in places like that.

Why? They have phones and hospitals in India.

[Themius]

And that is related to the current topic... how exactly?



How can something like that be estimated? If you don't have information on rapes that don't get reported (and you don't because, well, they don't get reported), then you can't draw a conclusion like that. You can go around asking men how many of them are rapists, but seeing as your survey says 25% of Asians are willing to admit they're rapists (think about how many actually are rapists (assuming the 25% are as well) but aren't willing to admit - what, most (if any) rapists are now honest, moral and selfless enough to admit to raping?), I'm perfectly fine with dismissing that survey as flawed.


Why? They have phones and hospitals in India.

India is a developing nation not a developed one. They have developed areas but many areas aren't.

There are studies on this... and if you speak with rape victims you'd find many of them never reported.

[Wikiy]

In America 54% of rapes go unreported and compared to places like Indian we likely report very often. If the culture there is such that it's okay and not so much of a big deal, then the women are much less likely to speak up. There are countries where 70% of all women have been raped they don't really speak up.

Except Indians aren't okay with rape (they love watching rapists die if you didn't notice). No sorry, I take that back. Indians, and everyone else for that matter, is obviously okay with rape, since according to these ridiculous statistics, everyone is a rapist or a rape victim!

[Themius]

Except Indians aren't okay with rape (they love watching rapists die if you didn't notice). No sorry, I take that back. Indians, and everyone else for that matter, is obviously okay with rape, since according to these ridiculous statistics, everyone is a rapist or a rape victim!

You're completely missing the point. I mean if you won't accept any studies or any statistics, then there's just nothing to say.

[Wikiy]

India is a developing nation not a developed one. They have developed areas but many areas aren't.

And? My nation is developing as well, and we have phones and hospitals on every corner. Alright, my country isn't exactly at such a low level as India is, but people have a lot of misconceptions when it comes to these things. Everyone thinks Turkey is a third world shithole, for example, when they're rather developed when it comes to certain aspects. Just ask anyone who's been to Turkey, they'll say the stereotypes are wrong as shit.

There are studies on this... and if you speak with rape victims you'd find many of them never reported.

Well if you're speaking to one, they obviously did report it.

[Themius]

And? My nation is developing as well, and we have phones and hospitals on every corner. Alright, my country isn't exactly at such a low level as India is, but people have a lot of misconceptions when it comes to these things. Everyone thinks Turkey is a third world shithole, for example, when they're rather developed when it comes to certain aspects. Just ask anyone who's been to Turkey, they'll say the stereotypes are wrong as shit.



Well if you're speaking to one, they obviously did report it.

Reported to police....

[Wikiy]

You're completely missing the point. I mean if you won't accept any studies or any statistics, then there's just nothing to say.

No, I am accepting certain statistics, but I agree, there is nothing to be said nor is there any point in continuing this if I'm willing to dismiss perfectly fine surveys as I am right now. Maybe I'm being a stubborn jackass, sure. I'll rather be one though than accept that we live in such a fucked up world where you're more likely to meet a guy who's rapist than one who isn't or a girl who's been raped than one who hasn't.

I'll rather make an exception and deviate from the scientific method (although I don't believe I'm doing that since I'm accepting some other statistics which mean nothing to you) in this one case and live a nice illusion than let my view of the world descend to such depths that I see rapists and rape victims everywhere. There is a line beyond which my natural optimism is going to make me deny reality, and (although, again, I don't believe I'm doing that right now) it seems I've found out what it is.

[Otaka]

I think it's an improvement. The death penalty is not unheard of in India, and I think it's good that this crime is recognized as a top felony.
Should the death penalty be abolished entirely? Well; in my opinion: Yes. Dead people can't learn, after all. But this particular case did deserve top punishment, and I'm glad that India is moving to a place where crimes against women are being taken more seriously than they previously were.

Prison convicts dont learn either.
In most countries prisons are too well kept, prisoners have routines and food and such... which then turns them into spoiled kids (just like your everyday spoiled 6 year old).
Like they get so into their routines such as eating food in their own cell and when they cant do that they go mental and rage.
In every reality show where they go into a prison, its the same... they are too spoiled.

Imo every government should look at russias worst prisons and make being a prisoner of crime a bad thing... meaning it would be horrible to live in a prison. Being stripped of freedom isnt enough if you get food and TV.

The reason why people keep doing crimes even after they are set free is because prison just isnt as bad as we regular people think it is.
Because unlike we, prisoners dont need to worry about bills or anything, all they have to do is to be on time for name calls and when cell doors are locked etc... thats it, they get fed and given stuff to do such as TV.... we have to work to make a living, we have to work to get fed.

My base of reasons is not tv shows such as Oz (which is my favorite prison-themed series... but its completely fictional which is obvious to viewers) but real life documents and shows where they visit real prisons. And even my own experiences when ive visited museum and told how things were and how they are now.

Raping and murder is bad... imo they should get tortured for it to learn that its bad... but torture isnt an option in modern society because those flowerhatwomen dont know what they are talking about and vote petitions to make prisoners life better.

In my opinion prisoners should be put into 2 categories in prisons, the worst category with the worst possible living conditions would go to those who have murdered or raped or anything as bad as those... and the lesser category would be for those who have robbed stuff, because they dont deserve as big a punishment as those who have done something way worse, robbing is bad too but they are mostly just desperate people, murderers however are just sick.

[Themius]

No, I am accepting certain statistics, but I agree, there is nothing to be said nor is there any point in continuing this if I'm willing to dismiss perfectly fine surveys as I am right now. Maybe I'm being a stubborn jackass, sure. I'll rather be one though than accept that we live in such a fucked up world where you're more likely to meet a guy who's rapist than one who isn't or a girl who's been raped than one who hasn't.

I'll rather make an exception and deviate from the scientific method (although I don't believe I'm doing that since I'm accepting some other statistics which mean nothing to you) in this one case and live a nice illusion than let my view of the world descend to such depths that I see rapists and rape victims everywhere. There is a line beyond which my natural optimism is going to make me deny reality, and (although, again, I don't believe I'm doing that right now) it seems I've found out what it is.

The number is high but it doesn't surprise me.

They spoke to 10,000 people of those 1/4 raped someone. If they spoke to people outside of the more forward places then it's not really a surprise at all. Many places like this oppress women and rape is a common occurrence. Like I said earlier, there are places where up to 70% of women are victims, and that's just the women if you were to add in the male rapes you'd have a place where rape is very common place.

[Rennadrel]

I think it's an improvement. The death penalty is not unheard of in India, and I think it's good that this crime is recognized as a top felony.
Should the death penalty be abolished entirely? Well; in my opinion: Yes. Dead people can't learn, after all. But this particular case did deserve top punishment, and I'm glad that India is moving to a place where crimes against women are being taken more seriously than they previously were.

Now only if their neighbours in Pakistan and most of the Middle East could learn from their example. But they won't because of their religion which tolerates the abuse and even murder of women because of honor, while the culture in India is much different because of their religion, despite the fact that women are still not treated with the same regard as women in the west, it's still better then some places.