Assurance of Consequence WW

[Deleted]

So i got the trinket yesterday from flex, and i have it upgraded two times obviously.

This is what it does to my abilities:

Transcendence: Transfer from 25 to 18,2 seconds.

Energizing Brew: from 1 min. to 43,8 seconds

Fist of Fury: From 25 to 18,2 seconds

Flying Serpent Kick: From 25 to 18,2 seconds

Fort Brew: from 3 min. to 2,19 min.

Zen Med: from 3 min. to 2,19 min.

These are all fairly good but i must admit i was under the impression it would affect dps cooldowns more.

I dont really use Serpent kick as a dps cd. much anymore so in reality its only FoF and E-brew that has lower cd.

Both decent but not really what i would wish for. I'm not really sure this trinket is all i was hoping it would be.

EDIT:

The reason i am bringing this up is that i can compare it to how it affects my hunter friend, and he gets three of his major dps cd's cd lowered.
FoF is something i dont use every time its up most of the time as a lot of fights have much movement in them, so i nreality this trinket only really affects E-brew, and knowing that i'm not even sure its worth using as a dps trinket.

[Deleted]

If it affected key spells that trinket would be mandatory because it would be too powerful.

[Deleted]

Well for a hunter it reduces the cd of their major dps cd's. So i guess its pretty much mandatory for them.

[Asune]

The CD reduction on energizing brew and FoF let you run with less haste and more crit

[Deleted]

The CD reduction on energizing brew and FoF let you run with less haste and more crit

I'm allready above 50% crit(in raids) and i'm not even trying though. To me it seems like the other trinkets from SoO simply outperforms this one

[Babylonius]

If you don't use EB/FoF often or on CD then you wont see a reason for this trinket. However the current TC is to drop haste as low as possible while using EB/FoF to pour haste into crit/mastery.

For example, without using EB/FoF that often (when we balanced stats for RoRO), the haste needed to not be energy starved was roughly 9-9.5k. Not balancing our stats (now for example) it takes most "good" WW's about 6-7k haste using FoF/EB practically on CD. That's another 2-3k stats we can push into mastery/crit, or move our gems from yellow to maximize secondaries to red/orange for agi. With this trinket I've found I can drop my haste another 1.5-2k because of the increase in EB/FoF. That's a 4-5k difference in haste that can be added to crit/mastery. Which is huge.

IMO this is our BiS trinket, comparable only to Harrom's.

[Deleted]

If you don't use EB/FoF often or on CD then you wont see a reason for this trinket. However the current TC is to drop haste as low as possible while using EB/FoF to pour haste into crit/mastery.

For example, without using EB/FoF that often (when we balanced stats for RoRO), the haste needed to not be energy starved was roughly 9-9.5k. Not balancing our stats (now for example) it takes most "good" WW's about 6-7k haste using FoF/EB practically on CD. That's another 2-3k stats we can push into mastery/crit, or move our gems from yellow to maximize secondaries to red/orange for agi. With this trinket I've found I can drop my haste another 1.5-2k because of the increase in EB/FoF. That's a 4-5k difference in haste that can be added to crit/mastery. Which is huge.

IMO this is our BiS trinket, comparable only to Harrom's.

I see your point. Its not that i 'm not using FoF often i just, most of the time, dont see myself needing to use it whenever it comes off cd. I have tried lower haste builds, but to me it just seems inferior as FoF in itself doesnt do enough damage to justify using three chi one it IMO. I'm sure the theorycrafters have a different viewpoint but i am ranked on some fights on WoL so i must be doing something right.

Harrom's to me seems like our BiS trinket by far. The other one from SoO(cant remember the name, but its the cleave one) has some obvious situational uses aswell. But afaik there are only these three trinkets from SoO right?

The one i can get from Timeless Coins doesnt seem very good either though, so maybe simply because of a lack of trinkets i have to use AoC anyway

[Babylonius]

I see your point. Its not that i 'm not using FoF often i just, most of the time, dont see myself needing to use it whenever it comes off cd. I have tried lower haste builds, but to me it just seems inferior as FoF in itself doesnt do enough damage to justify using three chi one it IMO.

FoF isn't used as a dps ability, its used as a energy regen ability that does some DPS, in this sense its better than just standing there.

I'm sure the theorycrafters have a different viewpoint but i am ranked on some fights on WoL so i must be doing something right

Obviously if it doesn't suit your playstyle then its not good for you. Unfortunately there aren't any ranks on WoL because they haven't updated yet and ones from last tier (of which I have plenty) aren't meaningful to this discussion because there was no AoC and everything was focused around Rune. I view AoC as this teir's Rune of Re-Origination; its a great trinket that can change much about your playstyle and how well players utilize this trinket can show a certain level of skill.

Because of RoRO in 5.3 there wasn't much need for EB/FoF because we were balancing our stats, giving us much more haste than we would have now that we're not balancing our stats. From a min/max viewpoint if you have awesome reflexes and don't have much time between attacks and the better you get at that, the more Haste you'll need to keep from being energy starved. To put it crudely and rudely; the better players are, the more haste you'll need, and visa versa, the less skilled a player is, the less haste he'll need to keep from being energy starved.

In a single target fight, AoC (with corresponding stat changes) and Harrom's are absolutely BiS. In an AoE environment, AoC and the Cleave trinket are BiS because AoC allows you to use more EB to offset the energy used in RJW.

Again, if you find after much testing that you do more dps w/o AoC then don't it bc math or theorycrafters say so.

Edit: WoL seems to be updating slowly so rankings/logs will be appearing.

[gynshon]

Yea we forgot to log the other night's raid but Malkorok was 270k for me, blowing every other WW out of the water from what is updated right now on WoL. I am not using FoF that much because the damage just doesn't seem to be worth the Chi cost except to raise a TEB stack. But I haven't been trying to optimize FoF during TEB either.

[TheWindWalker]

If it affected key spells that trinket would be mandatory because it would be too powerful.

Unfortunately, it effects Berserk for Ferals, Shadow Blades and Shadow Dance and Adrenaline Rush and Vendetta for Rogues, Bestial Wrath and Rapid Fire for Hunters, Feral Spirit and Ascendance and at least one Elemental Totem for Enhancement Shamans.

Windwalkers unfortunately don't have a DPS cooldown that isn't tied to being built over time rather than an actual cooldown period. In turn, it's essentially useless for any fight where you'd move often enough or have to AOE often enough to make using FoF a DPS loss.

Gotta say, this is further proof that Fists of Fury should really have done a great deal more damage and just had its stun not reapply so it wouldn't be too overpowered in PVP.

[Totaltotemic]

In a single target fight, AoC (with corresponding stat changes) and Harrom's are absolutely BiS. In an AoE environment, AoC and the Cleave trinket are BiS because AoC allows you to use more EB to offset the energy used in RJW.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. STOP citing EB energy gains as being a reason for AoC to be good, it is only worth 1659 haste (in pure energy, not even RPPM procs or attack speed worth of haste) which is far less than what equivalent ilvl trinkets give on their passive effect. If you're not using the cooldown reduction part of FoF (even in normal play you shouldn't be using it more than once every 30 seconds or so as it is), the trinket is not good. Forcing yourself into sub-optimal FoF usage purely because it has a lower cooldown is completely non-sense, it didn't happen in T14 when we had a tier bonus that reduced the cooldown and it won't happen now when TEB generation is even more important than it was then.

[Deleted]

FoF isn't used as a dps ability, its used as a energy regen ability that does some DPS, in this sense its better than just standing there.

Actually it is used as a dps ability. If it didnt do damage you wouldnt be using it at all except to stun in challenge modes. I know we use it because its better then just autoattacking, but remember it still costs us 3 chi. Anyway thats a pointless discussion.

Honestly i just dont get to stand stil enough to be able to feel the cd reduction of FoF come into play. I have tried it several times now and it doesnt seem like a real difference to me. I can use E-brew more often, i have noticed that and that helps a bit. Not sure if i think its better then having a crapton of agility though.

Anyway the point of this whole thread was to show that blizzard made some weird choices with this trinket for monks compared to other classes.

They could have made Xuen baseline for WW(we dont have a statue) and made it affect an actual dps cd. They could have made it hit Touch of Karma, that would actually be a very nice upgrade. Anyway this actually points to one of the sad things about WW. SOme of our best cd's are talents available to all Monk specs(Xuen, Diffuse magic).