Thread: Prot Upgrades

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  1. #1

    Prot Upgrades

    Good Afternoon,

    It seems there is a fair amount of gear with crit +1 desirable stat on them. the stat increases from 522 to 559 for a warforged piece are such a big jump.

    Just wondering if people will be taking some gear with crit to temporarily upgrade the 522's, is it worth it? is there a certain point where it would become to much?

  2. #2
    Blademaster
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    If you don't have a fury war to roll against it's probably good to take a crit + haste item for the ilvl bounce. In most situations its probably BiS for them and just a stepping stone for you. Crit + anything else is probably not a great call.

  3. #3
    In a perfect world I'd take crit/x from 522 to 559 in a heartbeat. To me that's not even close, the ilvl jump is so massive.

    But in the real world I'll pass on those items for DPS who need them...

  4. #4
    To be fair, though, you have more of a case rolling on haste/crit items this tier than you would have had last tier. Now that EF and DP look to be the go-to talents for Protection paladins, crit has ceased being a pure DPS stat, as more of it will lead to more critical EF ticks. Mind you, mastery is most likely still a better stat to go for after reaching 50% haste, but crit is no longer worthless for survival.

  5. #5
    Im pretty sure that this Spoils of Pandaria Ring will be very BiSish, for example (crit/haste)

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Elenwe View Post
    To be fair, though, you have more of a case rolling on haste/crit items this tier than you would have had last tier. Now that EF and DP look to be the go-to talents for Protection paladins, crit has ceased being a pure DPS stat, as more of it will lead to more critical EF ticks. Mind you, mastery is most likely still a better stat to go for after reaching 50% haste, but crit is no longer worthless for survival.
    Is haste still a beneficial stat to have with the 5.4 changes? It seems like traditional tanking stats are the way to go unless I'm reading into the patch notes incorrectly?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Abrasion View Post
    Is haste still a beneficial stat to have with the 5.4 changes? It seems like traditional tanking stats are the way to go unless I'm reading into the patch notes incorrectly?
    Haste is still the way to go. Dodge and Parry still remain at the bottom of the Secondary Stat totem pole. Continue as you were.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Abrasion View Post
    Is haste still a beneficial stat to have with the 5.4 changes? It seems like traditional tanking stats are the way to go unless I'm reading into the patch notes incorrectly?
    Nothing changed to make haste bad, nor to make dodge/parry beat haste. Sure, GC changes make d/p more useful, but at a degree that only matters if you can either get full dodge/parry (hint: you can't) or you're taking fast enough hits to warrant it (i.e., tanking many adds).

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by paulleedot View Post
    Haste is still the way to go. Dodge and Parry still remain at the bottom of the Secondary Stat totem pole. Continue as you were.
    What is the rationale though? Threat was buffed across the board, Grand Crusader has an increased proc rate on dodge/parry, seal of insight doesn't return mana .. I'm not seeing why haste is a good thing to have right now.

    Is holy power generation still significantly faster?
    Last edited by Abrasion; 2013-09-12 at 05:20 PM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Abrasion View Post
    What is the rationale though? Threat was buffed across the board, Grand Crusader has an increased proc rate on dodge/parry, seal of insight doesn't return mana .. I'm not seeing why haste is a good thing to have right now.
    DPS, faster EF/SS ticks, faster playstyle, faster HoPo income...i.e., smoother incoming damage and higher outgoing damage

    D/P does what, now? Spikey damage with the occasional GC proc? Nah, I'll pass

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by rhandric View Post
    DPS, faster EF/SS ticks, faster playstyle, faster HoPo income...i.e., smoother incoming damage and higher outgoing damage

    D/P does what, now? Spikey damage with the occasional GC proc? Nah, I'll pass
    Do you find yourself OOM after the patch? Just curious.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Abrasion View Post
    Do you find yourself OOM after the patch? Just curious.
    Nope. 15% mana return from GbtL more than makes up from the loss of mana from SoI

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Abrasion View Post
    Do you find yourself OOM after the patch? Just curious.
    No, they buffed our passive mana regen to 15%. I haven't noticed a difference in my mana/mana regen.

    Also - to add on rhandric, Haste reduces our GCD as well as the cool down of our abilities.

    More abilities = More HoPo = More output (damage, ShoR uptime, healing, threat).

    D/P has been "buffed" to now be tolerable vs. (almost) completely negligible.
    Last edited by pld; 2013-09-12 at 05:30 PM.

  14. #14
    Blademaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elenwe View Post
    To be fair, though, you have more of a case rolling on haste/crit items this tier than you would have had last tier. Now that EF and DP look to be the go-to talents for Protection paladins, crit has ceased being a pure DPS stat, as more of it will lead to more critical EF ticks. Mind you, mastery is most likely still a better stat to go for after reaching 50% haste, but crit is no longer worthless for survival.
    I believe crit's contribution to damage smoothing is roughly an order of magnitude lower than mastery and probably 30% of dodge/parry. It's such a flimsy argument to push for a crit/x item because crit can contribute to smoothing. The stam/str on the item contribute 10x+ the damage smoothing that the crit does.
    Last edited by gerus; 2013-09-13 at 02:33 PM. Reason: typo

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by gerus View Post
    I believe crit's contribution to damage smoothing is roughly an order of magnitude lower than mastery and probably 30% of dodge/parry. It's such a flimsy argument to push for a crit/x item because crit can contribute to smoothing. The stam/str on the item contribute 10x+ the damage smoothing that the crit does.
    I'm not contesting this. I'm trying to point out that crit is a less useless stat than last tier, and as such, if it's the only thing that drops, one should not feel bad about rolling on haste/crit. I wouldn't ever take hit/crit, or mastery/crit, but haste/crit is far fairer game than last tier. Mastery is still far better for survival, but crit is simply further from worthless than it was last tier.

  16. #16
    I don't know if any of you are right. According to the main pally theory crafter (drawing a blank on his name), in 5.3 11 points of parry was better than 9 points of haste. Now it's been buffed? It's very possibly better in terms of reducing incoming damage.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Xaru View Post
    I don't know if any of you are right. According to the main pally theory crafter (drawing a blank on his name), in 5.3 11 points of parry was better than 9 points of haste. Now it's been buffed? It's very possibly better in terms of reducing incoming damage.
    Ehmm... not even close. Before 1p of haste ~ 3p of avoidance. (1.0 vs 0.35), and while it got slightly better, it is still crap.
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    It's kinda amazing how many hands these guys have, anyway. Our tank pally can put his hands on 3 different people and still hold his weapon and shield and make unsavory gestures towards enemies.

  18. #18
    Tanks arguing about whether they should pick haste or crit is ridiculous in the first place. Haste and crit are supposed to be DPS stats. Blizz has fucked things up badly by making them preferable to tanks.

    Recently I lost my heroic BiS belt (the only time ever I've seen it drop) with haste, mastery and crit socket bonus to a god damn tank. Just because he wanted haste over tank stats - and also completely disregarded the crit bonus which should scream "DPS!!!!" to everyone seeing the item. (Yeah, I am a little bitter.)
    Last edited by Gahmuret; 2013-09-15 at 05:20 AM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Gahmuret View Post
    Tanks arguing about whether they should pick haste or crit is ridiculous in the first place. Haste and crit are supposed to be DPS stats. Blizz has fucked things up badly by making them preferable to tanks.

    Recently I lost my heroic BiS belt (the only time ever I've seen it drop) with haste, mastery and crit socket bonus to a god damn tank. Just because he wanted haste over tank stats - and also completely disregarded the crit bonus which should scream "DPS!!!!" to everyone seeing the item. (Yeah, I am a little bitter.)
    Frankly, socket bonuses mean nothing. Sure, the crit will do more for a dps than for a tank, but haste and mastery are both (pally) tank stats.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Gahmuret View Post
    Tanks arguing about whether they should pick haste or crit is ridiculous in the first place. Haste and crit are supposed to be DPS stats. Blizz has fucked things up badly by making them preferable to tanks.

    Recently I lost my heroic BiS belt (the only time ever I've seen it drop) with haste, mastery and crit socket bonus to a god damn tank. Just because he wanted haste over tank stats - and also completely disregarded the crit bonus which should scream "DPS!!!!" to everyone seeing the item. (Yeah, I am a little bitter.)
    How terrible that you aren't the only one going for plate loot, and have some competition!

    Deal with it. -___-
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    It's kinda amazing how many hands these guys have, anyway. Our tank pally can put his hands on 3 different people and still hold his weapon and shield and make unsavory gestures towards enemies.

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