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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    That's the point. Varian has no power to demand anything from the races of AA. He is supreme commander of AA's army which is military position. Each race of AA will always rule itself. Some people still don't get it.
    Varian has made various political decisions on behalf of the whole alliance such as letting the pandaren join, letting Dalaran rejoin, and of course the end of SoO.

    High King≠Supreme Commander

    The Draenei and Worgen in Lion's Landing formed pretty much the bulk of the troops there. They all were in Alliance uniforms, with the Lion tabard and all. They were under Alliance command and at Varian's command.

    I agree with you on one point : we don't see enough of Velen and the Draenei.
    No. The game explicitly states the humans, dwarves, gnomes, and night elves are under Varian's command. It specifically leaves the draenei out.

    There are only a couple worgen in the whole place.

  2. #62
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    I'd love to see the draenei become the defacto lead of the alliance, with blizzard saying its to develop them as a race, and sticking velen in power over Varian.
    And I really do mean that, mostly because of all the alliance leaders, he's the only one I can take seriously as a leader, who isn't a joke character, or a pretentious asshat.

    saying that, he is something of a coward, so I stick with my idea that the draenei deserve a younger leader.
    Last edited by Trassk; 2013-09-15 at 04:14 PM.
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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    Varian has made various political decisions on behalf of the whole alliance such as letting the pandaren join, letting Dalaran rejoin, and of course the end of SoO.

    High King≠Supreme Commander
    I'm having trouble finding it but there was a twitter reply about this ages ago where whoever it was that was asked basically said that their induction was discussed just like the Worgen, they just didn't show it in game.

    As to the SoO - https://twitter.com/DaveKosak/status/378030678496931840
    So yeah again it did happen. It would just take too long.

    Same situation. It is a problem though.

    The only notable political decision he has made unto another race was the establishment of the Council of Three Hammers. Which was before him being High King.
    Last edited by Scummer; 2013-09-15 at 04:11 PM.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    I'm having trouble finding it but there was a twitter reply about this ages ago where whoever it was that was asked basically said that their induction was discussed just like the Worgen, they just didn't show it in game.

    As to the SoO - https://twitter.com/DaveKosak/status/378030678496931840
    So yeah again it did happen. It would just take too long.

    Same situation. It is a problem though.
    When did they happen? Pandas show up, they join the alliance. Dalaran purges elves, they join the alliance. Garrosh falls, Varian makes his decision.

    When was their time for discussion before Varian made a decision?

    Also, if the alliance somehow bent time to discuss things why would Jaina try to convince him to do something else? And why would Varian say that, "I am willing to end the blood shed," instead of, "we are willing to end the blood shed?"

    It's just another example of Kosak saying something that isn't shown in the game. He basically ret conned the end cinematic 2 days after it was launched on live. Fastest ret conn ever?

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowraven View Post
    Thank you for expressing my opinion before me. I agree. Alliance should be ruled by a council with leaders from each nation. Just like before this High King bullshit.
    I feel the same, mostly. High King, should probably only be used during war time. If the SoO marks the end of this particular war, then it should become a council.

    As far as the leader of the human kingdom(s), something along the lines of what Mojo Risin said.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    It's just another example of Kosak saying something that isn't shown in the game. He basically ret conned the end cinematic 2 days after it was launched on live. Fastest ret conn ever?
    Like i said they have a real problem with this type of presentation and it does piss me off. Doesn't mean it didn't happen though.
    It's comparable to the destruction of Theramore scenario where it's just so different from the book.
    Last edited by Scummer; 2013-09-15 at 04:17 PM.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    When did they happen? Pandas show up, they join the alliance. Dalaran purges elves, they join the alliance. Garrosh falls, Varian makes his decision.

    When was their time for discussion before Varian made a decision?


    I'm playing devil's advocate here but it could be implied there's a timeskip between Varian walking over to the Alliance forces and Jaina trying to get into his head.

    I mean the whole "even now they plot against us" line doesn't really work if they've been stood together for literally a second.

    Or it could have been discussed pre-siege what the actions would be if both sides came out alive.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by wych View Post
    I'm playing devil's advocate here but it could be implied there's a timeskip between Varian walking over to the Alliance forces and Jaina trying to get into his head.

    I mean the whole "even now they plot against us" line doesn't really work if they've been stood together for literally a second.

    Or it could have been discussed pre-siege what the actions would be if both sides came out alive.
    But not all the leaders were even there. If it was decided already why would Jaina try to get Varian to do something else and why would she think he had the power to do something else? Why would Varian say "I" instead of "we?"

    It just could not have happened unless Kosak wants to ret conn the whole cinematic mere hours after it was first seen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    Like i said they have a real problem with this type of presentation and it does piss me off. Doesn't mean it didn't happen though.
    It's comparable to the destruction of Theramore scenario where it's just so different from the book.
    Players only get what Blizzard presents to them. They can't read Kosak's mind and they shouldn't have to wait for him to answer questions to get the full story.

    If they intend for High King to be a military position then they need to show it as only a military position.

    Regardless with the war ending, Varian should be stepping down from the position.

  9. #69
    If Varian were to be removed from the equation somehow, as it stands the Alliance doesn't have a clear successor and that's a big problem. Anduin is still pretty young and would have difficulty being taken seriously as leader of a global superpower, he might be able to rule Stormwind on his own but that's about it.

    Personally I'd like to see Muradin be built up as a major player in the Alliance military, eventually reaching the point where he is effectively second-in-command. The Dwarves have been a major part of the Alliance since the second war and have maintained positive relationships with the other Alliance races. It would also help diversify the currently human-dominated Alliance upper leadership.
    Roleplaying, hardcore Raiding, running LFR on the occasional weekend, PvPing, rolling alts, achievement hunting, pet battling, or just enacting an endless series of whims, I don't care how you play WoW. Just as long as you have fun doing it.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    Varian has made various political decisions on behalf of the whole alliance such as letting the pandaren join, letting Dalaran rejoin, and of course the end of SoO.

    High King≠Supreme Commander



    No. The game explicitly states the humans, dwarves, gnomes, and night elves are under Varian's command. It specifically leaves the draenei out.

    There are only a couple worgen in the whole place.
    Strange, because everytime I went to Lion's Landing, most of the guard NPCs were either Draenei and Worgen (mostly Draenei). Bold (and strange) move from Varian to give the responsability of guarding his stronghold to people who are not even under his command...

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ng-screenshots
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  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Frontenac View Post
    Strange, because everytime I went to Lion's Landing, most of the guard NPCs were either Draenei and Worgen (mostly Draenei). Bold (and strange) move from Varian to give the responsability of guarding his stronghold to people who are not even under his command...

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ng-screenshots
    The draenei are still alliance even though they haven't given Varian command over them. The night elves weren't under his command until ALP and they were out building root barricades during the Landing.

    Strangely enough people can work together as equals.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    But not all the leaders were even there. If it was decided already why would Jaina try to get Varian to do something else and why would she think he had the power to do something else? Why would Varian say "I" instead of "we?"

    It just could not have happened unless Kosak wants to ret conn the whole cinematic mere hours after it was first seen.



    Players only get what Blizzard presents to them. They can't read Kosak's mind and they shouldn't have to wait for him to answer questions to get the full story.

    If they intend for High King to be a military position then they need to show it as only a military position.

    Regardless with the war ending, Varian should be stepping down from the position.
    In the time of peace, his position would mean nothing anyway. The AA's races rule itself indepedently. In time of war you can't really seperate political decision from military too. Draeneis themself are also not against Varian being in charge like you seem to think. They supported AA and it was AA's agreement to put Varian in charge. Varian didn't put himself in the position. What's important is that AA is not ruled by Varian. It has been that way since forever.
    Last edited by Wildmoon; 2013-09-15 at 04:48 PM.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazomir View Post
    Il do my modification here...
    Didn't Crowley sell out his own people to save his daughter ...

  14. #74
    God I am tired of the fruity roleplayers who want every Alliance cutscene to be some boring shit about boring-ass characters like Velen and Tyrande having tea and holding council meetings.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimble View Post
    God I am tired of the fruity roleplayers who want every Alliance cutscene to be some boring shit about boring-ass characters like Velen and Tyrande having tea and holding council meetings.
    How dare people care about story in an RPG!

  16. #76
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    Didn't Crowley sell out his own people to save his daughter ...
    Yep fuck Crowley, he's a terrorist as well.

    Genn might be a bit of a racist old man but he's a pretty good leader

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    Muradin should be 2nd in command should Varian be killed/captured/resigns.
    On a side note... where's Muradin?

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pebbleton View Post
    On a side note... where's Muradin?
    Got replaced by Moira. Blizzard is bad at these council/alliance type things.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    The alliance should not have a leader.
    Respectfully disagree.

    The Alliance must be lead by Humans. Key word, must. None of the other races have the Humans resilience, stubborn self confidence (might as well call it arrogance), ambition, zeal, discipline and occasional calculated ruthlessness needed to face down everything the universe can throw at them. Humans fail, make mistakes or even die and they just shrug it off, rise again and keep on marching.

    The Forsaken and Worgen are also just Humans, with certain aspects of their Human nature emphasized. There is a reason why most Forsaken are actually humans, the Lore explains that Humans have the strongest will to live among the races of Azeroth, thus it is easier for them to come back into undeath and to even accept their condition then it is for other races. Same with the Worgen, Worgen are just humans who came closer to their repressed savagery, the one we can witness in the Vrykul in Northrend.

    I know a lot of players just don't like the Humans or their lore, but regardless, I think the Alliance should always be lead by the Humans. Not to mention they put up most of fighting and dying. So it is logical they have the last word when it comes to decision making.

    If something was to happen to Varian before Anduin is ready to rule, the Alliance can be lead by Jaina as leader of the Kirin Tor and regent of Stormwind. But to be honest, as young as Anduin might be, he is already fairly fit to rule.

    P.S. And yes the Dwarves should play a major role in the Alliance, and while I do like Muradin, I actually prefer the new Moira. She seems to be more politically savvy.
    Last edited by Mihalik; 2013-09-15 at 05:56 PM.
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  20. #80
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falrinn View Post
    Personally I'd like to see Muradin be built up as a major player in the Alliance military, eventually reaching the point where he is effectively second-in-command. The Dwarves have been a major part of the Alliance since the second war and have maintained positive relationships with the other Alliance races. It would also help diversify the currently human-dominated Alliance upper leadership.
    I want this so bad. For the guy in charge of the playable Dwarves Muradin hasn't done much. He's also been around a long time in the Alliance politics and during war so it would make complete sense for him to be heavily involved.

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