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  1. #21
    Everyone who has a low priority/need/whatever to do PG:

    If your guild and raid LEADER tells you to get gold, well then you spend 15 minutes and get gold..

    Wtf are you to expect from your guildmates over randoms if not some sort of standard

  2. #22
    Legendary! Blueobelisk's Avatar
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    I wanna be that hardcore guy and support you!

    Your guild only has one day a week to officially raid, so they better spend that time wisely and go in prepared and knowing what the fuck they're doing, otherwise they're wasting other people's times. Just because you raid one day a week doesn't mean it's not serious. If they don't want to be serious tell them to do LFR or Flex.

    I'm gonna place some blame on you since you're loose. ILevel requirements mean nothing.

    In the end, it depends on what the wants of the raid group are. If they want to seriously progress it's not a hard request (I assume lol). If they expected to log in raid day and do whatever, maybe you made it seem that was okay.

  3. #23
    I agree with the poster who said if you can't get gold you shouldn't be raiding.

    At least if he referred to normal modes. Gold was easy, learn to kite amber blobs into mobs for the 50% damage increase. If people can't handle the coordination required on top of the output requirements then they are going to get carried in normal modes.
    "Moral reason must learn how to make coercion its ally without running the risk of a Pyrrhic victory in which the ally exploits and negates the triumph."

  4. #24
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waalt View Post
    Everyone who has a low priority/need/whatever to do PG:

    If your guild and raid LEADER tells you to get gold, well then you spend 15 minutes and get gold..

    Wtf are you to expect from your guildmates over randoms if not some sort of standard
    A raid leader is not a boss or supervisor, despite what many seem to think. You don't make demands like that of people unless you expect a few of them to tell you to screw off. Until you pay their subscription, you don't get to order people to do X content.
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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    A raid leader is not a boss or supervisor, despite what many seem to think. You don't make demands like that of people unless you expect a few of them to tell you to screw off. Until you pay their subscription, you don't get to order people to do X content.
    That's a little silly. As the raid leader, I do get to tell people "Do x or you cannot raid with us."

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    You know I don't think PG is an adequate gauge of anything, mostly due to the scaling. Some classes are totally screwed (see: Fire Mage, possibly Fury Warriors) and have to switch to subpar specs that worked in 463 gear. Also, speaking as a tank the last two waves of Gold are pretty tough; I believe it took me around 10 tries or so (did a few the first time, took a break, came back and did it finally) to clear it so I certainly would not consider it trivially easy.

    I think you were wrong to mandate getting it, because it's not a good indicator of performance or skill as you are getting gimped by the scaling; no legendary cloak, no legendary meta, typically stats dropped to where you ideally would need a totally different set of gear for them (you'd almost have to go back and collect a 463 blue set from heroics and pretend you were back in 5.0.4) but with class abilities that have changed drastically since anyone was at 463 iLevel. Personally I think PG should have been scaled to something more indicative like 496, because when everyone was in 463 gear things played a lot differently.
    To be honest I managed gold on my firt try and endless 17 on my second try, the tank one felt pretty easy. The DPS one felt pretty easy too, one shot it as well. What's unfair though is the healing one, in that it teaches (or better, requires) tecniques which no longer belong to raiding. Heck, I had to dust off my Heal spell on my priest for the first time in ages and I basically didn't use prayer of healing because it was too much mana to sustain.
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  7. #27
    It is not balanced on a per-class basis, let alone spec basis.
    As long you understand what it is, and equally what it is not as a measure.
    Personally I am against such simplified measures of a player, having been in the receiving end of such judgements unfairly.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    You know I don't think PG is an adequate gauge of anything, mostly due to the scaling. Some classes are totally screwed (see: Fire Mage, possibly Fury Warriors) and have to switch to subpar specs that worked in 463 gear. Also, speaking as a tank the last two waves of Gold are pretty tough; I believe it took me around 10 tries or so (did a few the first time, took a break, came back and did it finally) to clear it so I certainly would not consider it trivially easy.

    I think you were wrong to mandate getting it, because it's not a good indicator of performance or skill as you are getting gimped by the scaling; no legendary cloak, no legendary meta, typically stats dropped to where you ideally would need a totally different set of gear for them (you'd almost have to go back and collect a 463 blue set from heroics and pretend you were back in 5.0.4) but with class abilities that have changed drastically since anyone was at 463 iLevel. Personally I think PG should have been scaled to something more indicative like 496, because when everyone was in 463 gear things played a lot differently.
    ^ this.

    The only thing PG might be good for is learning a new spec- after you've at least gotten the rotation part down on the dummy.

    The healer one is unrealistic. It's doable, but you better HOPE you know how to manage your mana well enough since there's no drink break between waves. In a heroic/raid setting, you're able to drink when you aren't in combat (there's a good 14 second lapse between some waves).

    Personally, I don't see PG as needing to be required- especially for a group that only raids one day a week.
    "When you've got to get down, but can't find the elevator, you have to do it any way you can. Even if it's with a shovel."- Dark Tower II: Drawing of the Three, Stephen King
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  9. #29
    Maybe I'm being retarded, or just plain crap but when I went to do the PG on my DK as tank I actually got stuck at gold, I would just "die" on the last wave on gold.....whereas, on my hunter it was a complete and utter faceroll, completely and utterely retardedly simple. Now, I'm quite confident in my abilities on every char I play, but that suprised me, maybe I'm doing something wrong there.....

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypasonic View Post
    Maybe I'm being retarded, or just plain crap but when I went to do the PG on my DK as tank I actually got stuck at gold, I would just "die" on the last wave on gold.....whereas, on my hunter it was a complete and utter faceroll, completely and utterely retardedly simple. Now, I I'm quite confident in my abilities on every char I play, but that suprised me, maybe I'm doing something wrong there.....
    Run purgatory and remorseless winter. Stun the big guys during enrage or use army of the dead to tank them for a bit. I 1-shot it on gold, never knowing before what was going to happen.

  11. #31
    I think its personally reasonable. A proof of basic skills is required in modern real-life, why not in competitive gaming?
    With Fire and Brimstone I light my path.
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  12. #32
    Proving Grounds is really simple from what I've seen, but requiring it is stupid in my opinion because it's just a waste of time.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Tankitbetter View Post
    That's a little silly. As the raid leader, I do get to tell people "Do x or you cannot raid with us."
    Um...that's not how it works. In a raid setting, sure, you get to call the shots. HOWEVER, you do not get to dictate what people do outside of that raid.

    That is why you lost raiders. Your attitude sucks.
    "When you've got to get down, but can't find the elevator, you have to do it any way you can. Even if it's with a shovel."- Dark Tower II: Drawing of the Three, Stephen King
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  14. #34
    OP, judging by your gear and raid history on both toons, and the fact that your raid had problems during Siege (which I would assume was the first 4 bosses), it sounds like you're casual.

    So yes, it probably wasn't the smartest thing in the world to have such a strict requirement is such a casual settings. Yes, strict. I don't care if you one shot it and think it's easy as cake, I would say the majority of player base will never see gold.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Bezoar View Post
    I think its personally reasonable. A proof of basic skills is required in modern real-life, why not in competitive gaming?
    The OP isn't in a competitive guild.

  15. #35
    Its very easy and not unreasonable at all. It took me like 20minutes total, gave a shot at endless got to wave 48 without any problem.
    If warlock cannot get gold, just guild kick him.

  16. #36
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypasonic View Post
    Maybe I'm being retarded, or just plain crap but when I went to do the PG on my DK as tank I actually got stuck at gold, I would just "die" on the last wave on gold.....whereas, on my hunter it was a complete and utter faceroll, completely and utterely retardedly simple. Now, I'm quite confident in my abilities on every char I play, but that suprised me, maybe I'm doing something wrong there.....
    Last wave on gold is BRUTAL because of the two conquerors who enrage, and I believe there's a wing guy who hits hard. That combination will wreck you (it can pretty much global you with the 3x melee swings), so you need to prepare and make sure you have all your cooldowns ready for it.

    Which is another reason why IMO it's not a good test, because you realistically would not have that kind of heavy hitting mobs in a real environment (not at the same time anyways) and certainly not at 463 gear. I personally think that the last wave of gold should have been an actual "boss" mob with actual mechanics (think the tank challenge on Norushen) instead of just more waves. I mean, dealing with trash usually isn't hard for a tank, the hard part for a tank is fight mechanics. Tank PG should have shown things like:

    * Avoiding voidzones/whatever
    * Dealing with tank swaps (toss in an NPC tank who takes the boss first, and you have to swap once or something)
    * When to use big cooldowns to survive
    * Using active mitigation for key hits (think Snapping Bite/Triple Puncture/Talon Rake, somethign with a long cast time and the NPC telling you "He's casting <Super Attack>, ready your defenses!" as the warning)
    * Switching and picking up adds

    i.e. things that a tank encounters regularly in a raid environment. As it stands PG is basically "How to pull trash" which if you ask me doesn't properly teach a tank how to play beyond holding aggro and maybe cooldowns for the Conquerors. The DPS one teaches actual raid mechanics at least in some small form (e.g. the amber globs), and I have no idea how the Healer one works since I have never and will never heal.
    Last edited by Nobleshield; 2013-09-15 at 02:37 AM.
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  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by taheen74 View Post
    Um...that's not how it works. In a raid setting, sure, you get to call the shots. HOWEVER, you do not get to dictate what people do outside of that raid.

    That is why you lost raiders. Your attitude sucks.
    Wrong. A leader can select the requirements for his team and that's what he's done. We enforced for everybody to have their legendary cape on wednesday or they would automatically be put in standby and not even considered for raid, then rotated the people who actually did.
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  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by taheen74 View Post
    Um...that's not how it works. In a raid setting, sure, you get to call the shots. HOWEVER, you do not get to dictate what people do outside of that raid.

    That is why you lost raiders. Your attitude sucks.
    I can require people to bring flasks, food buffs, be fully glyphed, enchanted - whatever I like. In Vanilla, we required our raiders to run Maraudon for poison resist and to spend hours in felwood farming mats. I could require them to run ZG to be able to pop the ZG buff on our raid boss attempts.

    I hardly think asking a player to spend an hour or so to do a very fun scenario is very taxing or that it makes my attitude "suck."

  19. #39
    The meta doesnt work on it, or the cloak, or set bonuses for that matter, since its just like challenge modes and all of that is disabled and you are scaled down to 463 ilvl. Which sucks for a lot of classes that are not that good at that ilvl. 2 of the best players in my guild literally can't beat the gold DPS challenge as fire mage for example because the spec just isn't good enough at that ilvl, and can't be arsed to spec frost and reforge/regem.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    Last wave on gold is BRUTAL because of the two conquerors who enrage, and I believe there's a wing guy who hits hard. That combination will wreck you, so you need to prepare and make sure you have all your cooldowns ready for it.
    To be quite honest I didn't found that wave (and endless waves with the conquerors) to be as dangerous as the triple flying mantid one. That completely wrecks you even with cooldowns up and I had to resort to Xuen+fortifying+kiting.
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