Page 7 of 28 FirstFirst ...
5
6
7
8
9
17
... LastLast
  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
    YOU DO FLEXI RAID. You could do that shit naked it so fucking easy.
    i would very much like to see a naked raid do norushen and sha of pride, i would enjoy that

    just because flex is easier than normal doesn't mean it is easier than LFR

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by jotabito View Post
    Tbh, asking them to get gold on proving grounds is useless. Instead of asking them to waste time waiting for the next round to spawn, ask them to spend 10-15 mins watching 2-3 vids of the bosses you're progressing on.
    Watching a video may make them more knowledgeable but proving grounds can help with reflexes, awareness, interrupts etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
    Not team work which is what raiding is about.
    Responding to the only useful part of your message: team work doesn't get a rogue to interrupt on time, a warlock to swap to the correct add, or the mage to move out of the fire. That's individual responsibility. PG helps show you can do the basics of the individual responsibility.
    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    This has to be prized for the most silly idea I've ever read. Proving grounds just highlight which classes perform incredibly well at low gear scaling and teach players (especially healers) how to heal in a non-raid situation where the player is strained for mana and can abuse certain mechanics. In proving grounds as a Mistweaver I need to regen full spirit because the legendary meta doesn't function and no MTT is available. In a raid I can play with 6k~ spirit and end the fight on full mana. The two situations are completely different. Anyone who thinks, at least from a healer P.O.V, that it teaches healers how to play in proper raiding situations are delusional.
    The healer challenge is possibly the least useful. It's about intelligent play, proper CD usage, and it shows that if it comes down to it you're a competent healer who can make competent decisions.

  3. #123
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    I know casual isn't bad, and I don't think anyone is saying. But casual usually means limited time investment
    And if you read into what I have said, limited time does not mean you can just be a lazy player and not bother to learn your role. A class guide can be read through in 10 minutes, on the toilet if you wish, and you'll know what spells you should be casting. Gearing the same (hell you can even get pretty accurate addons to do it for you). A boss guide takes a few minutes to watch or read.

    If you have time to raid, then MAKE TIME to know what you're doing. It's that or stop being so disrespectful to everyone else who is carrying your lazy ass and drop out. If you're part of a team, then you need to do what you can to perform to the potential the game is offering you. Trying to coast along doesn't work anymore. There's nowhere to hide, and for casual people who value their time, and wish to see some progress, laziness like that is unacceptable. Clearly the OP is one of those people.

  4. #124
    Old God Kathranis's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Austin, Texas
    Posts
    10,074
    I did gold DPS and silver tank on my warlock for the achievements. Is it really that hard for DKs to get gold tank?

    That said, while they can be taken as a general measure of skill, knowing specific fights is far more important. And I don't think that gold skill level necessarily equates with what you'll encounter in LFR and flex raids.

    I know Blizzard has said they they're considering making proving ground achievements a requirement to enter LFR in the future, but they would most likely only require bronze, maybe silver.


    Edit: More thoughts. Requiring players to clear gold in proving grounds is probably not a great idea, but asking them to practice their class and spec in the proving grounds? Nothing wrong with that. Brawler's Guild too, for that matter.
    Last edited by Kathranis; 2013-09-15 at 04:11 AM.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
    Oh I can bitch about it. Single player content has no place in an MMO and I believe it is a gross waste of dev time. That is why i have no interest in ever even looking at them let alone getting gold. Which I would get easy.
    Poor performance isn't the only reason someone can get kicked from a raid. Poor attitude, like refusing to spend 30 minutes doing what you claim to be a very simple task before the next several months of raiding, is an even better indicator of someone you DON'T want to be raiding with.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    Edit: More thoughts. Requiring players to clear gold in proving grounds is probably not a great idea, but asking them to practice their class and spec in the proving grounds? Nothing wrong with that. Brawler's Guild too, for that matter.
    I am considering extending the time required by a week simply because of time constraints by some of my raiders.

  7. #127
    Deleted
    If your members have raided any current content and got at least say about halfway through, then proving grounds is useless requirement. However its not something to gquit over... Considering you've come to forums for advice you seem to be a GM who doesn't always think he's right. So the three that left could have just said they didn't want to do it due to time constraints.

    If i had been raiding in the guild for a while and showed I am a competent <insert role>, I would think it pointless to get proving grounds achievements, would i quit like a 10 year old that can't get his way? No, if I HAD to do it to raid, I'd grit my teeth and get through it.

    Proving grounds is more of a test or competence test for new players and people who don't know there role/rotation/etc. It's a good requirement for people you haven't raided with before, not PuG's but rather new guild members, that is if they don't have lei shen or sha patch appropriate achieve :P

  8. #128
    Legendary! Airwaves's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    POTATOES!
    Posts
    6,614
    Quote Originally Posted by TheBaron87 View Post
    Poor performance isn't the only reason someone can get kicked from a raid. Poor attitude, like refusing to spend 30 minutes doing what you claim to be a very simple task before the next several months of raiding, is an even better indicator of someone you DON'T want to be raiding with.
    Well lucky I would never join a guild with a prick for a raid leader then isn't it?
    Aye mate

  9. #129
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Cretaceous Period
    Posts
    22,793
    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    And if you read into what I have said, limited time does not mean you can just be a lazy player and not bother to learn your role. A class guide can be read through in 10 minutes, on the toilet if you wish, and you'll know what spells you should be casting. Gearing the same (hell you can even get pretty accurate addons to do it for you). A boss guide takes a few minutes to watch or read.

    If you have time to raid, then MAKE TIME to know what you're doing. It's that or stop being so disrespectful to everyone else who is carrying your lazy ass and drop out. If you're part of a team, then you need to do what you can to perform to the potential the game is offering you. Trying to coast along doesn't work anymore. There's nowhere to hide, and for casual people who value their time, and wish to see some progress, laziness like that is unacceptable..
    I'm... I'm not disagreeing with any of that. At all. No where did I say, or even imply, that casuals were lazy.

    Like I explained (or thought I did), person with limited amounts of in-game free time is a lot more likely to be unhappy with demands as to how to spend that precious free time in-game, especially if it includes doing something unnecessary like proving grounds. While objectively I don't think PGs take a lot of time to do, I can completely understand how someone might be mad about being forced to do them when the raid leader has alternatives that wouldn't cost them any time, likesay, reading last week's parse.


    for moderation questions/concerns, please contact a global:

    TzivaRadux SimcaElysiaZaelsinoxskarmaVenara

    | twitch | bsky
    |

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by artem123 View Post
    PG proves nothing compared to how someone will do in siege.
    Eh. Gold proving grounds is really really easy. If they can't do it, they would likely have problems in seige anyway.

  11. #131
    Deleted
    Your requirement is utter shite. Proving grounds prove nothing to be honest. Lets look at an example for Mistweaver Monks. Here's a link to #1 MW monk on the 2nd boss in SoO. http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/e...?s=3232&e=3779 As you can see, 26.1 % of his total healing came from Soothing Mist. Soothing Mist also directly affects how much healing you will do with Uplift, in this chase 29.7 %. In Proving Grounds however, if you use Renewing Mist the way you use it in raids, you will be oom at level 5. Since most Monks have LMG they can generate free mana with the use of Muscle memory and free mana cost on Jab, and as such they can reduce the overall spirit they need (most Monks have around 5k spirit, in PG that number will be as low as 3k). 3k mana is the amount I used in Dragonsoul on my Disc Priest (total overkill, I know, but I liked it that way).

    Taking into account that you have effectivly lost almost 50% of your secondary stats (530 down to 463), going from 10k crit rating down to 5k crit rating will severly affect your Mana Tea generation (Mana Tea has a chance = to your crit % to generate an extra charge).

    With all this in mind, you need to severely change the way you heal in Proving Grounds just to get gold or endless 30. Another thing to add is Thunder Focus Tea. TFT allows your Uplift to refresh the duration of Renewing Mist. A good MW Monk will know when to use TFT to increase the amount of players having Renewing Mist on themself from 6 up to somewhere around 13+. Say that you raid in a 25 man raid, an there is this huge aoe spell incomming, a Monk that knows when to use TFT to increase the numbers of people healed with Uplift will heal better than a Monk that lacks that ability.

    Another class example, Demo Warlocks with UVLS. UVLS gives 100% crit for 4 seconds. UVLS however has a really bad proc rate when it's ilvl is 463, so having multiple enemies with a 100% criting Doom will be near impossible in Proving Grounds. However, when it's ilvl is 530 you can easily have more than 6 enemies with criting Dooms. Just take Council of Elders for example, Demo Warlocks doing more than 400k dps since they know how to react to that crucial 4 second window.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tankitbetter View Post
    Watching a video may make them more knowledgeable but proving grounds can help with reflexes, awareness, interrupts etc.
    Practise makes perfect they say. Practise can be done anywhere. You may just aswell do 3s instead of Proving Grounds to get faster Reflexes. And I can tell you for a fact that watching a video to increase your knowledge of a boss fight, will almost always increase your performance during the encounter. You will know when and how to use your spells at the right moment to increase your dps etc.

    So stop being such a tryhard and force people to get gold in PG since it doesn't prove anything.

  12. #132
    Pandaren Monk lightofdawn's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Top of your dps meter
    Posts
    1,930
    being a class that cant deathgrip a banshee halfway across the map is the only reason i havent gotten gold yet. but other than that i dont really care. just kinda glad i dont have to be in ur guild so i can waste my time doing what i want

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    Eh. Gold proving grounds is really really easy. If they can't do it, they would likely have problems in seige anyway.
    thats the most assumed thing i've ever heard. it's also not necessarily true
    "Brace yourselves, Trolls are coming."
    Signature By: Mythriz

  13. #133
    Just feels like "requiring" it of them will create some resentment. I understand Proving Grounds can show some skills, but I'm with the ones recommending just having people know more about the fights prior to raid night.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    Eh. Gold proving grounds is really really easy. If they can't do it, they would likely have problems in seige anyway.
    Not true at all
    Our fire mage (14/14), tried to do gold PG.
    Didnt end well, Does he have problems in siege?
    No. Because of lolscaling.
    spec + class dependent. Not player dependent.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by lightofdawn View Post
    being a class that cant deathgrip a banshee halfway across the map is the only reason i havent gotten gold yet. but other than that i dont really care. just kinda glad i dont have to be in ur guild so i can waste my time doing what i want

    - - - Updated - - -



    thats the most assumed thing i've ever heard. it's also not necessarily true
    My Paladin OT has gold on DPS and tank - so does my DPS warrior friend. Execution issue not class issue.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Malecesar View Post
    snip.
    While I appreciate your opinion, we have no mistweavers in our guild. Thank you though.

  16. #136
    Thoughts? Any player exodus you experience is deserved.

  17. #137
    The funny thing, is this is exactly what Blizzard feared would happen when they implemented this.

    I personally see nothing wrong with this, getting a gold medal is no challenge, getting to 30 for that title is no challenge either. The way I see it, you've successfully trimmed some of the fat that would've held your raid back.

    Like you said, it's a simple request, if it can't be done, then you're better off leaving them sitting on the bench.

  18. #138
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Tankitbetter View Post
    While I appreciate your opinion, we have no mistweavers in our guild. Thank you though.
    That is not the point. You are basicly judging people using a flawed system. What happenes if you get a Mistweaver, do you kick him out for not managing an unfair challenge? What if you have a demo warlock who manages gold PG but can't keep his criting Dooms up? Do you keep him since he has gold, or do you kick him cause he can't use his 4 seconds window properly despite having gold PG?
    Last edited by mmoc99dd852bb1; 2013-09-15 at 04:59 AM. Reason: grammar

  19. #139
    I think a lot of people are overreacting. I think requiring gold in proving grounds is a completely valid requirement UNLESS it is a requirement for a casual guild and a guild that raids one night a week sounds pretty casual. Even then, getting gold isn't very difficult. Some classes are better than others but even the worst of classes for proving grounds can get gold if played decently. At the end of the day though you're the raid leader so require what you want.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Malecesar View Post
    That is not the point. You are basicly judging people using a flawed system. What happenes if you get a Mistweaver, do you kick him out for not managing a unfair challenge? What if you have a demo warlock who manages gold PG but can't keep his criting Dooms up? Do you keep him since he has gold, or do you kick him cause he can't use his 4 seconds window properly despite having gold PG?
    My warlocks have been able to do it no problem. As has my fire mage - much to his amusement. He read this thread and said "What? People have problems doing PG as fire?"

    None of my players - none have said "I think this is impossible." The people who haven't done it yet try on and off and I really don't think they'll have any problems completing it.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •