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  1. #341
    Brewmaster cyqu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamatayan View Post
    Thank you OP for your post.It reminded me of why i stopped raiding in tier 12 and stay clear of the corrupt totalitarian regime known as the "Raiding Guild".Who are you to tell people what content to run.Do you pay their subs?????I hope they all /gquit.
    then they should leave his guild, as it is his guild with his rules.. who are they to tell him what they can and cant do in his guild? did they pay for the guild charter?
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  2. #342
    I am Murloc! Anjerith's Avatar
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    Some classes have it monsterously easier on at least the DPS Gold challenge. However, i do not see anything wrong with setting standards.
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    Gold and the 'need' for it in-game is easily one of the most overblown mindsets in this community.

  3. #343
    The Insane Wildtree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Asking someone to do the proving grounds doesn't mean you can't still be casual. And if you're only clearing 1-2 bosses then you REALLY need to do them.
    Not clearing, progressing
    "The pen is mightier than the sword.. and considerably easier to write with."

  4. #344
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyqu View Post
    i guess you don't understand leadership or how raiding/guilds work then, and by just guessing that nobleshield of turalyon is you then im not sure you ever will get how raiding guilds work.
    Oh trust me I get how they work, but I hate the attitude many people have in this game that it's a job. The OP is ordering people to do something because he wrongly believes it will show him that they are skilled. Not only that but he has dismissed any and all criticism, showing that he didn't come here for opinions he came here for validation, so he's going into things with the mentality of "I'm right and everyone else is wrong" and can't even understand how others can think differently.

    The people advocating seem to have this mindset that everything is easy and it's okay to dictate things to people who you presumably play with because you have fun with them, as though they were employees or co-workers trying to accomplish a job. That's a very poor mentality to have in a game that's meant to be for enjoyment. To me it just kind of stinks of the attitude that the people you play with are tools to an end, and not people you actually like.
    Last edited by Nobleshield; 2013-09-15 at 03:01 PM.
    NOBLESHIELD
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  5. #345
    Seriously gold is easy on all the classes if you can't beat it or are annoyed a guild master requires it for raiding then you should indeed gquit and join a lfr/flexible raid guild or go into pvp and boast about yourself when you 3v1 your enemy

  6. #346
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsubodia View Post
    39% of the top 100 is DK... and saying one class is better than others because thats balancing? surely that would mean each and all class has it just as easy.

    if you want a full break down

    dk = 39%
    mage = 16%
    hunter = 12%
    lock = 12%
    monk = 6%
    priest = 5%
    rogue = 5%
    warrior = 3%
    shaman = 1%

    Druids and palas dont even make the top 100

    80% of the top 100 are made up of 4 classes.

    the imbalance is very easy to see. (ofc this is referring to endless mode) but if anything it highlights a huge class parody
    The thing to note here is while there are some major differences in how easy/hard it is for different classes, we are not talking about getting top 100 endless ranks here. We are talking about getting gold, that it something that is highly doable on any class regardless of spec.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  7. #347
    The Insane Wildtree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    Oh trust me I get how they work, but I hate the attitude many people have in this game that it's a job. The OP is ordering people to do something because he wrongly believes it will show him that they are skilled. The people advocating seem to have this mindset that everything is easy and it's okay to dictate things to people who you presumably play with because you have fun with them, as though they were employees or co-workers trying to accomplish a job. That's a very poor mentality to have in a game that's meant to be for enjoyment.
    Can't be said any better...
    It's a past time activity and not a job. I suggest for anyone with that mindset, to actually go get a real job, then stand their man/woman in the world outside where it really matters. The moment the computer is turned off, all done in the game becomes meaningless. Prioritizing is a skill too, a very important one when it comes to real life... Sometimes it seems some fail at that skill...
    There's only a few people on that planet for whom gaming skill equals job skill and income.
    "The pen is mightier than the sword.. and considerably easier to write with."

  8. #348
    Brewmaster cyqu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    Oh trust me I get how they work, but I hate the attitude many people have in this game that it's a job. The OP is ordering people to do something because he wrongly believes it will show him that they are skilled. The people advocating seem to have this mindset that everything is easy and it's okay to dictate things to people who you presumably play with because you have fun with them, as though they were employees or co-workers trying to accomplish a job. That's a very poor mentality to have in a game that's meant to be for enjoyment.
    raiding is the business side of this game for people like myself, sure i have "fun" when i raid but at the end of the day i don't call up a couple of my friends and say "gee willy fellas lets all log onto wow and try are best to have a grand ol' fun time!" i log on a specified time of the day and play my best as i expect the people i play with to do so as well, we have a common goal and we try and achieve it. if i was the GM/RL and i wanted like minded people with equal skill as me i would set standards and such that people who have to make, as this guy has done.

    if you got how "they" work you wouldn't be arguing this point. and would fully understand this sort of mentality.
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  9. #349
    Quote Originally Posted by alturic View Post
    No man, don't you know, being on a football, basketball, baseball or any other team, you do whatever the hell you want, when you want it. You didn't know that? You have that freedom since the coach didn't pay for your uniform or gear.
    Actually, the coach tells you to come to practices and you better damn show up. If I do not show up for practices because I "have the freedom" I get booted from the team. In the same sense, several times when I have been plaing football, basket, floorbal and handball, we have been giving tasks to complete outside of training and games, stuff we needed to do at home. Sometimes that was to run 10 km each day, sometimes that was to learn some technique, either way you had to do it.

    Wtf does it matter who payed the uniform or the game. You are in a team, if you do not practice what you are expected to practice and perform at the level you are expected to, you get booted. Same goes for simply not showing up. If I do not do wtf my football coach says to do and he says "Guess what, you are out of the team!", I cant exactly say "No-uh! I payed my shoes myself!", no, I would be out of the team.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  10. #350
    The Insane Wildtree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    The thing to note here is while there are some major differences in how easy/hard it is for different classes, we are not talking about getting top 100 endless ranks here. We are talking about getting gold, that it something that is highly doable on any class regardless of spec.
    And even though it may be possible for all classes, it is still more difficult for some classes.. otherwise the top 100 would be made up by players (not classes) that are patient enough to play for high score reasons only.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Actually, the coach tells you to come to practices and you better damn show up. If I do not show up for practices because I "have the freedom" I get booted from the team. In the same sense, several times when I have been plaing football, basket, floorbal and handball, we have been giving tasks to complete outside of training and games, stuff we needed to do at home. Sometimes that was to run 10 km each day, sometimes that was to learn some technique, either way you had to do it.

    Wtf does it matter who payed the uniform or the game. You are in a team, if you do not practice what you are expected to practice and perform at the level you are expected to, you get booted. Same goes for simply not showing up. If I do not do wtf my football coach says to do and he says "Guess what, you are out of the team!", I cant exactly say "No-uh! I payed my shoes myself!", no, I would be out of the team.
    Comparing Sports, which has mechanics for over 100 years (depending on which sport) and a computer game, is quite a comparison of apples and oranges.

    I did play football (soccer) for 25 years, actively in a club. I went to practice twice a week, and played at the weekend. Any requirements at that level have been met by me, or the other members of the roster. That's normal, that's how the game works...
    That subject changed dramatically when I switched to "private teams" made up entirely by friends, who met once a week at some public field in a park for a little kicking the ball around and friendly games every other week. No one expected to put the seriousness of a club team there anymore. If anyone would have tried (sometimes ones ego takes over ones personality) they've been told to shut the fuck up, and look at themselves instead.

    A computer game is aimed at the second group, that plays on private team level, and not at the first group, that plays on amateur/semi pro level.
    "The pen is mightier than the sword.. and considerably easier to write with."

  11. #351
    Quote Originally Posted by Damax View Post
    Seriously gold is easy on all the classes if you can't beat it or are annoyed a guild master requires it for raiding then you should indeed gquit and join a lfr/flexible raid guild or go into pvp and boast about yourself when you 3v1 your enemy
    And this guy has no idea what hes talking about.
    Congratulations!

  12. #352
    Quote Originally Posted by cyqu View Post
    raiding is the business side of this game for people like myself, sure i have "fun" when i raid but at the end of the day i don't call up a couple of my friends and say "gee willy fellas lets all log onto wow and try are best to have a grand ol' fun time!" i log on a specified time of the day and play my best as i expect the people i play with to do so as well, we have a common goal and we try and achieve it. if i was the GM/RL and i wanted like minded people with equal skill as me i would set standards and such that people who have to make, as this guy has done.

    if you got how "they" work you wouldn't be arguing this point. and would fully understand this sort of mentality.
    They raid one night a week, you are in a top 10 US 10 man guild. You're comparing beer league with pro sports to all extents and purposes.

  13. #353
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    The people advocating seem to have this mindset that everything is easy and it's okay to dictate things to people who you presumably play with because you have fun with them, as though they were employees or co-workers trying to accomplish a job. That's a very poor mentality to have in a game that's meant to be for enjoyment. To me it just kind of stinks of the attitude that the people you play with are tools to an end, and not people you actually like.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    Can't be said any better...
    It's a past time activity and not a job. I suggest for anyone with that mindset, to actually go get a real job, then stand their man/woman in the world outside where it really matters. The moment the computer is turned off, all done in the game becomes meaningless. Prioritizing is a skill too, a very important one when it comes to real life... Sometimes it seems some fail at that skill...
    There's only a few people on that planet for whom gaming skill equals job skill and income.
    Honestly I straight up feel that people who use the "it's just a game, not a job" excuse are just covering for their own inability and lack of competitiveness. I get limited time to play games during the week because:
    1. Two small children at home.
    2. A wife.
    3. A 9-5 IT Job.

    I want my gaming time to be brutally efficient. Min-maxing is my enjoyment, and it comes naturally to me. I stopped playing WoW back in 5.1, but I play a lot of DOTA2 now and that mindset still translates. I was sick of the pubbers being bads during my 1-2 games a night I get to play of DOTA2, so I went and found some friends to play with from forums, same deal with recruiting players.

    Honestly every time someone someone tells me: 'lol chill dude, it's just a game', I imagine some teenaged stoner sent that message. People with serious jobs, families, and a life take things seriously, that is how they got to where they are in life, so of course they take gaming seriously too. Competitive drive, yo.
    CompTIA A+ Computer technician, 7 years and counting...

    Retired WoW Heroic Raider, currently playing DOTA 2 competitively.

  14. #354
    Brewmaster cyqu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    Comparing Sports, which has mechanics for over 100 years (depending on which sport) and a computer game, is quite a comparison of apples and oranges.

    I did play football (soccer) for 25 years, actively in a club. I went to practice twice a week, and played at the weekend. Any requirements at that level have been met by me, or the other members of the roster. That's normal, that's how the game works...
    That subject changed dramatically when I switched to "private teams" made up entirely by friends, who met once a week at some public field in a park for a little kicking the ball around and friendly games every other week. No one expected to put the seriousness of a club team there anymore. If anyone would have tried (sometimes ones ego takes over ones personality) they've been told to shut the fuck up, and look at themselves instead.

    A computer game is aimed at the second group, that plays on private team level, and not at the first group, that plays on amateur/semi pro level.
    they are both team oriented games, your team may require 1 meet up a week for fun with friends, some may require you to show up 7 days a week and do things on your own time to be prepared. it is your decision on which team you join and how well you want to do. but either way the leader of said team is dictating what you do, if you don't like it go to another team.

    with e sports becoming more and more popular, i wouldn't say that its directed at the first or second group. sports have been around for thousands of years. e sports has been around for like 20 years. you can play it off how ever you want. but some people play games for different reasons. you are not a competitive person maybe so you choose not to raid for progression, or you choose not to pvp for high ranks. some people play hockey to win trophies, some people play to get drunk with some friends after the game. its the exact same thing in wow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    They raid one night a week, you are in a top 10 US 10 man guild. You're comparing beer league with pro sports to all extents and purposes.
    I'm just simply pointing out things people are just over looking because of how they view this game, and trying to add another perspective to this thread.
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  15. #355
    Quote Originally Posted by Bezoar View Post
    I think its personally reasonable. A proof of basic skills is required in modern real-life, why not in competitive gaming?
    LOL what yeah all them competitive gamers in a 1 day/ week guild... He's in a casual guild, maybe they take it semi seriously but they aren't competitive.

  16. #356
    DPS one as a warlock was piss easy. The closest i got to failing was 10 seconds where I was tabbed out for too long. Even gold high waves was faceroll.
    A tank one is relatively easy, until wave 10 of gold. I failed as I hadnt slept in two days and was too slow on CDs and havent tried it today. But I reckon I'll do it first try today.
    Healing however is totally different, that really is fucking hard. Cut them some slack if they get to wave 6+ on gold

  17. #357
    Scarab Lord slime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blayze View Post
    Before Blizzard can do that and expect it to fly, they'll have to provide spec-specific modifications to Proving Grounds to ensure all specs can perform at the same level. And they'll have to make sure they haven't fucked with that balance every single patch.
    Why would they have to do that, they have never once done that for any other aspect of this game before.. why start now.

  18. #358
    The whole concept of "requiring" Gold in Proving Grounds is along the same lines as "requiring" training for a job.
    Unfortunately, you should probably step back from the game and realise it isn't a job.
    And you should probably realise that while Proving Grounds is a wonderful training tool, some classes have it much harder than others, and so while it is doable for everybody, it's actually quite challenging for some classes... And as a result, if you were to require me, for example, to do it, I'd probably gquit as well.

    I'll put this into perspective for you: I'm a pretty good tank, and have been extended invites into pretty decent guilds, but I can't get past 10/10 Gold in Proving Grounds. Why? Because I'm a monk, and a crit-oriented monk at that. I'm good in a raid situation where I have my CDs at my disposal, and where I can control the situation, however after 10 back-to-back waves of enemies that actually do ridiculous amounts of damage to a leather tank, I simply don't have the CDs, and being crit-oriented, don't have the stamina. And yet in raid situations I rarely die, and if you ask my healers, it's not because they're spam healing me the entire time; monks are almost too spiky to take that final wave of enemies, given the healing DoT is 70k. I can self-heal til the cows come home but when the Conquerors enrage I die, every time.

    So, I'd probably be pretty offended if you were ranking my skill based on my PG progression.
    Can't blame your guildies for taking off, either.

  19. #359
    Scarab Lord slime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikael123 View Post
    I agree with this.

    Does getting gold mean that a certain player is a good raider? I think not. You could aswell require people to have 100 mounts or have 10000 achievement points. That's just as silly. If my guild leader required me to get gold, I'd consider leaving the guild even if it was easy to get gold.
    No way dude.. you get the gold - theeen you leave the guild.

  20. #360
    its like requiring brawlers guild rank 10 before 5.4...
    hello healers and tanks
    I have forgotten more than you will ever know..

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