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  1. #501
    Quote Originally Posted by Mionelol View Post
    When it comes to the stacking dot, you're supposed to use an aoe CC ability (blinding light comes to mind for a paladin I guess) and cc/kite for a bit in order to reset the stacks.
    I didn't attempt it on live at all, but that's what I did on my PTR attempt and it went just smooth.
    Yea, I think I tried that but it was on CD from an earlier pack. Either way I'll attempt it later this week and try a few other things. I mainly did it once to get an idea of it. In the end though I think it's just silly to ask people to do gold to raid. Bronze/Silver I can see. Gold would just frustrate *most* people and make them want to leave the guild and find another guild that doesn't require it or just not raid altogether.

  2. #502
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    Gold would just frustrate *most* people and make them want to leave the guild and find another guild that doesn't require it or just not raid altogether.
    This is not supported by the fact that 17 out of 20 people of my original raiders are okay with it. This is a small sample - but it's the only sample we have.

  3. #503
    Not to mention that as a paladin you can both bubble and bop the stacking bleed.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  4. #504
    I see nothing wrong with it, but why stop there?

    Require a minimum Arena or RBG rating, since there is nothing better in-game to train a player to think on their toes and survive dynamic mechanics.

    You didn't think 70% of the Top 10 progression servers being PvP servers was a coincidence, did you?

  5. #505
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Not to mention that as a paladin you can both bubble and bop the stacking bleed.
    I thought about this but I figured knowing my luck my UI would mess up and say "No cancelling bubble and let the mops destroy your healer". Just because the UI hates me every once in a blue moon.

    Edit: Just realized I was dumb. Didn't get rid of the stacks because I Lay on Hands is why I didn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tankitbetter View Post
    This is not supported by the fact that 17 out of 20 people of my original raiders are okay with it. This is a small sample - but it's the only sample we have.
    Yea, that is a pretty small sample size. That's why I said most people. I've been in guilds before where I know something like that would start irritating people and cause them to leave. I'd say you got lucky :P

  6. #506
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    So having just completed a current tier of heroics while it was current (quite a tough one I might add with DA and Lei Shen in there) the advice of some one day week casual raid leader is that I should drop back to lfr? Sounds like retarded advice.

    Back on topic, it sounds like you aren't sure where to pitch your raid team. Ex hardcore raider leading casuals one night a week and making them jump through hoops to meet your standards. While standards aren't a bad thing I'm not sure your philosophy is in line with the teams. Having said that, its your team to lead (or destroy in this case)
    sounds like he just wants a team that can claim to be casual while clearing all content on heroic in one night.


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  7. #507
    Very interesting, like reading a research article as that one guy said!
    In most cases I would have thought such a requirement to be quite pointless but I can definitely see the possibilities for it to be beneficial in your case.

    In my opinion Proving Grounds (mainly endless) is amazing practice to develop the skillset needed in gold+ challenge modes, healers included. Most people criticize them for being unrelated to raiding but I believe it's a more adaptive and reactive playstyle that is absolutely required to improve yourself as a player and to become flexible. Every role gets to refine their CD usage, dps maximise damage during movement, tanks get to have some fun with kitting and healers have to make intelligent decisions with their spell usage because mana matters.
    I don't know about you but those are all skills I put in action to acquire realm best CM times and I'm positive it translates, at least partly, into my skills as a raider. Of course some specs have it harder than others but we're a few who made it past wave 30 as elemental, gold is definitely not out of reach.

    Glad to read its been working well so far OP, hopefully the last few manages to pull it off with your help and ends up making your raid stronger as a whole.
    Baltz <Nurfed> - US Tichondrius

  8. #508
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karlzone View Post
    If you run around, trying to kite the boss, you're a pretty terrible raid tank. You can't root raid bosses and if you root trash mobs, they turn around and melee the closest player. Also proving ground teaches you how tank dps is completely irrelevant, as your npc does 4-5 times your dps.
    The tank one has the least to do with raiding.
    There's loads of bosses that needs to be kited as part of their mechanics, primordius to name a recent one.
    Plenty of adds/trash that can be rooted, seemed to work excellent on garrosh yesterday.
    I didnt spend much time in PG as i got my title after 3-4 tries but if i didnt push enough dps i'd get overwhelmed and die /shrug.

    I've been tanking for years and i really think PG is fantastic for its target audience, dont forget OP and his guild is doing flex
    Last edited by santa666; 2013-09-16 at 05:56 PM.

  9. #509
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    Quite possibly the case. The only thing that were up at the time was melee mobs. There was no fire caster, wind caster or anything that would've taken a lot of damage. Just the stacking bleed dot they do. Though as I mentioned before I only gave gold one attempt to see what it was like and could just be a case of really bad RNG. I'll have to toy around with it later this week. Would do it tonight, but I have a paper to write and I want to beat the Celestial Tournament before it resets.
    Is this on Gold or Endless? On Gold the tough part is the last wave, the two Conquerors that enrage; save cooldowns for that because they will trainwreck you like nothing else, especially if you still have one of the flyers up from the previous wave; even with SotR running you can pretty much be globaled, and you can't kite those guys because they have a speed buff when enraged. For the rest meh I never really had an issue with the stacking dot from the virmen, it was just straight melee from either the flyers or the conquerors, but I've only gotten to Endless 10 so far.

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  10. #510
    Bloodsail Admiral Kharli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tankitbetter View Post
    Update: There seems to be some confusion so I'll back up the story some. My guild is a casual, 1 night a raid guild whose first raid was Wednesday night. I have never raided with the vast majority of the ~20 people who showed up in a wide variety of ilvl and raid experiences.
    your a fucking moron.
    1.you say your guild is a casual, 1 night raid guild? and you expect people to do Proving Ground GOLD!?
    2.My Guild is a family casual(ish) guild we raid 3 nights a week, none of the Officers/GM expects anyone to do Proving Grounds Gold for any of there roles.
    3. Get a guild meeting up and ask what people feel about doing The Proving grounds. and as many other people have said before..

    alot of people DO NOT HAVE thE TIME to do Proving Grounds and it's worthless unless your testing a spec out.

    I ASK my Guild how to at certain times, becasue I know I can get good info from them.

    Infracted - Please do not insult other users. -Nobleshield
    Last edited by Nobleshield; 2013-09-16 at 06:05 PM.

  11. #511
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    Is this on Gold or Endless? On Gold the tough part is the last wave, the two Conquerors that enrage; save cooldowns for that because they will trainwreck you like nothing else, especially if you still have one of the flyers up from the previous wave; even with SotR running you can pretty much be globaled, and you can't kite those guys because they have a speed buff when enraged. For the rest meh I never really had an issue with the stacking dot from the virmen, it was just straight melee from either the flyers or the conquerors, but I've only gotten to Endless 10 so far.
    Yea I know it was the last. I just didn't really see what was up and how they wrecked me. I just basically doing it to see how difficult it would be.e As for the two Conquerors didn't know that and will have to try that next time. To be even more honest I really didn't kite anything for the most part. Just sat there tanking/aoe'ing all the mobs, silenced the fire caster after he got some fire off and when I tried to run to him to start killing it some of the mobs would run through fire.

    Whenever I do it next I could probably kite the mobs through the fire a bit more and stuff and try a few things. I was just being lazy/not reading it before hand and such. Plus I'm not sure how much of a difference it makes in Proving Grounds but I was basically in my Ret gear with 522 Weapon from ToT and 476 shield. If I reforged my gear a bit more and gemmed/enchanted my weapon things would probably be better.

  12. #512
    Epic! Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taheen74 View Post
    ^ this.

    The only thing PG might be good for is learning a new spec- after you've at least gotten the rotation part down on the dummy.

    The healer one is unrealistic. It's doable, but you better HOPE you know how to manage your mana well enough since there's no drink break between waves. In a heroic/raid setting, you're able to drink when you aren't in combat (there's a good 14 second lapse between some waves).

    Personally, I don't see PG as needing to be required- especially for a group that only raids one day a week.

    Getting gold as a healer is a joke. I didn't even change my gear and had low spirit and had no issues. Proving grounds do not get challenging for healers until Endless.

  13. #513
    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    Getting gold as a healer is a joke. I didn't even change my gear and had low spirit and had no issues. Proving grounds do not get challenging for healers until Endless.
    I've heard a lot about the healer one being a joke. I didn't try it as I only had Prot / Ret at the time. Is it there just enough damage going out? Or mechanics not occuring to make you have to think on your feet of which spell to use and such?

  14. #514
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    I've heard a lot about the healer one being a joke. I didn't try it as I only had Prot / Ret at the time. Is it there just enough damage going out? Or mechanics not occuring to make you have to think on your feet of which spell to use and such?
    It took me 2 tries on healer due to vuhdo not showing the dispel. Other than that, I Felt it was pretty simple. More healing waves, fewer healing rains and GHWs.

  15. #515
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    I've heard a lot about the healer one being a joke. I didn't try it as I only had Prot / Ret at the time. Is it there just enough damage going out? Or mechanics not occuring to make you have to think on your feet of which spell to use and such?
    It's mostly RNG based, either NPCs stand on the fire (impossible) or they don't (trivial) Either they focus fire appropiately (no damage intake) or they don't (way too much damage).

    Once you get some decent RNG you can faceroll your way to gold, if you get bad RNG almost no amount of skill can possibly save you.

  16. #516
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inthislzon View Post
    It's mostly RNG based, either NPCs stand on the fire (impossible) or they don't (trivial) Either they focus fire appropiately (no damage intake) or they don't (way too much damage).

    Once you get some decent RNG you can faceroll your way to gold, if you get bad RNG almost no amount of skill can possibly save you.
    So what you are saying is... it accurately sims the typical LFG group? Either you get a good group and have no issues.. or you don't and have issues. Sounds like it's the best of the three then.

    I kid, I kid.

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  17. #517
    Quote Originally Posted by Kharli View Post
    your a fucking moron.
    You're*
    1.you say your guild is a casual, 1 night raid guild? and you expect people to do Proving Ground GOLD!?
    Yes? I didn't say they were bad. I said they were casual.
    2.My Guild is a family casual(ish) guild we raid 3 nights a week, none of the Officers/GM expects anyone to do Proving Grounds Gold for any of there roles.
    Good for your guild! What's your point?
    3. Get a guild meeting up and ask what people feel about doing The Proving grounds. and as many other people have said before..
    Their opinions on the validity of it don't really matter. It may seem rude but it's true.
    alot of people DO NOT HAVE thE TIME to do Proving Grounds and it's worthless unless your testing a spec out.
    They have had the time. And it's good that you have evidence to support such a wild claim.
    I ASK my Guild how to at certain times, becasue I know I can get good info from them.
    And I asked my officers and they agreed it'd be a good idea.

  18. #518
    Should've made the requirement Endless wave 30, now that was something of a challenge.

  19. #519
    Quote Originally Posted by Bmfstunner View Post
    Should've made the requirement Endless wave 30, now that was something of a challenge.
    I know you may just be joking, but that would pretty much defeat the whole point.

  20. #520
    Quote Originally Posted by Tankitbetter View Post
    I am requiring my guild to do their spec's "Gold" Proving Grounds - thoughts?
    IMO, you're using an achievement to do what people used to crutch on GearScore to tell them. Not the best of ideas, nor the most.. promoting of a positive atmosphere. I also think you'd be better served in just gathering the people who are raiding/dungeon-crawling, requiring the use of DBM and getting into a guild vent channel for communication/just doing the raid(s)/dungeon(s). Learning what people are capable of doing, and not doing, is best served by observing it all while doing it LIVE. If you clear in one go, clap-clap and call it a night. If you wipe, analyze what went wrong and constructively tell whoever fouled up what to do in order to get things right, and try again. Don't crutch on shift-click links. You'll short-change your guild's potential.

    Now, instead of talking about what else we'd 'pay for,' Blizzard needs to be discussing ways to show some love to those who haven't unsubbed at every willy-nilly notion.

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