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  1. #541
    Quote Originally Posted by Xihuitl View Post
    its easier on some specs that others so pointless for comparing Player A to player B unless they are the same spec, and even then I'd say its a BS tool.
    I'd also ignore it on principle as it does not really compare to a raid setting.

    Stop looking for easy to measure cop outs. Get people in a raid, show some leadership, inspire them, and make calls based on experience.
    It's not comparing player A to B. Getting tired of the same responses by people who can't read.

  2. #542
    Quote Originally Posted by Xihuitl View Post
    its easier on some specs that others so pointless for comparing Player A to player B unless they are the same spec, and even then I'd say its a BS tool.
    I'd also ignore it on principle as it does not really compare to a raid setting.

    Stop looking for easy to measure cop outs. Get people in a raid, show some leadership, inspire them, and make calls based on experience.
    If a player can't pass proving grounds to even prove that they have the most basic of motor skills necessary for WoW, no amount of 'inspiring' or 'leadership' will make them press their buttons faster, or react faster to a certain mechanic. It's a simple hands-on training that proves you can do even the most mundane of tasks.

  3. #543
    Quote Originally Posted by 2jz View Post
    If a player can't pass proving grounds to even prove that they have the most basic of motor skills necessary for WoW, no amount of 'inspiring' or 'leadership' will make them press their buttons faster, or react faster to a certain mechanic. It's a simple hands-on training that proves you can do even the most mundane of tasks.
    But it doesn't differentiate between the person who does it first try easily and the person who struggled through 16 tries before just barely making it. And, frankly, if you raid with people for even a few nights you'll know who's standing in fire etc. And then you can talk to them about their performance in an actual raid.

  4. #544
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    But it doesn't differentiate between the person who does it first try easily and the person who struggled through 16 tries before just barely making it. And, frankly, if you raid with people for even a few nights you'll know who's standing in fire etc. And then you can talk to them about their performance in an actual raid.
    No but my communication with the guild does know who got it down easily and who struggled.

  5. #545
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    But it doesn't differentiate between the person who does it first try easily and the person who struggled through 16 tries before just barely making it. And, frankly, if you raid with people for even a few nights you'll know who's standing in fire etc. And then you can talk to them about their performance in an actual raid.
    If you're able to get it on your first try, then proving grounds isn't intended for you, simple as that. That's why there is the 'Endless' portion of the scenario. It's been stated numerous, numerous times that it isn't supposed to compare each player to one another, but to just prove that they can, do like i've said, the most mundane of task.

    It does not matter if it was completed the first time or 18 times, as long as you complete it, that means you know your toolkit and your character well enough that it's easy; or that you ran into roadblocks along the way and had to make adjustments to your play in order to complete the trail, perhaps learn a thing or two (like it was intended to be)

  6. #546
    Quote Originally Posted by 2jz View Post
    If you're able to get it on your first try, then proving grounds isn't intended for you, simple as that. That's why there is the 'Endless' portion of the scenario. It's been stated numerous, numerous times that it isn't supposed to compare each player to one another, but to just prove that they can, do like i've said, the most mundane of task.

    It does not matter if it was completed the first time or 18 times, as long as you complete it, that means you know your toolkit and your character well enough that it's easy; or that you ran into roadblocks along the way and had to make adjustments to your play in order to complete the trail, perhaps learn a thing or two (like it was intended to be)
    Or the RL can do this "Stop looking for easy to measure cop outs. Get people in a raid, show some leadership, inspire them, and make calls based on experience." You know... what RLs have done for 8 years. See how people perform in an actual raid and make calls based on that.

    This is nothing more than a lazy RL who doesn't want to spend a reset or two evaluating the team and telling them whether they can come or not.

    But again, since OP has sidestepped or rejected every single issue with this, who gives a fuck? They're not interested in other opinions, they're bound and determined to do this and it will either work or not for them. I have no idea why we're still talking about it honestly. Shall we have long threads about all of the ways to run your raid? Why? It's your raid. Do what you want but you obviously didn't come here seeking actual discussion about the pros and cons of this.

    And with that... /bye
    Last edited by clevin; 2013-09-16 at 11:11 PM.

  7. #547
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    I required myself to get Gold for my raiding role (DPS). It's probably not a bad thing. It requires you to assess what targets to hit when, which CDs to expend when, etc.

    The only thing I don't like about PG - supposedly you do better with particular gear equipped, notably non-RPPM trinkets. Great, so much for scaling and everything being equal. Now I feel like I need a "PG Set" for my gear. I'd like to get the title next. Really, raiders should probably have the Proven Whatever title. I don't yet, but I feel like I should.

  8. #548
    Bloodsail Admiral ImpTaimer's Avatar
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    The proving grounds aren't there to test your skill. They're there to test your wit.

    They are not balanced around class/specs. Warrior's can't heal, etc.

    Do your best to cheese the achieve with a class/spec that has an easier time with it. There's no point stressing yourself for no reason.

    Balance has never been Blizzard's strongpoint. Classes used to have a purpose instead of balance, but that hasn't been relevant since 2008.

    If you can't beat'em, cheese'em.
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  9. #549
    The OP spent the entire time telling everyone who disagreed with him they were wrong. Clearly a reassurance topic.

  10. #550
    Quote Originally Posted by Kolo View Post
    The OP spent the entire time telling everyone who disagreed with him they were wrong. Clearly a reassurance topic.
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    But again, since OP has sidestepped or rejected every single issue with this, who gives a fuck?
    And yet there at least half a dozen posts that I've talked about that say "Good point - I'll do that or keep that in mind."

    Good reading comprehension you have!

  11. #551
    Quote Originally Posted by Tankitbetter View Post
    It's not comparing player A to B. Getting tired of the same responses by people who can't read.
    Okay, you obviously don't want people's opinions since all you are doing is arguing if someone has their own opinion that doesn't match yours. So putting "thoughts?" in your header was completely pointless. I'm now trying to figure out exactly why you made this thread?

    I've told you my opinion:

    1) You are grouped up with a group you have never been with before.

    2) It is a very casual group- not even a normal casual group at that.

    3) You are only doing flex and are expecting people to be somewhat perfect. You've had 7 people quit on you for making something that isn't really mandatory, mandatory. Someone getting a gold star doesn't mean that they're going to be playing any better afterwards. Skill takes time to build up.

    4) It sounds like you are trying to treat a casual guild as if they are a bunch of hardcores. That doesn't go over very well in a casual guild. If you want people that are "perfect" go join a regular raiding guild or give these people time to get their own proverbial crap together.

    5) You need to give them a few weeks to figure out what's going on- that's when you start weeding people out.
    Last edited by taheen74; 2013-09-17 at 02:11 AM.
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  12. #552
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    At this point, all we have is people tossing insults, repeating their opinions, and circular discussion.

    I think this thread has run its course, closing.
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