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  1. #141
    Honestly the only person I can see leading the orcs is Thrall. While he may not lead the horde directly his role of advisor will allow him to steer the horde through the rocky path that has been left in the wake of Garrosh's defeat. What does concern me though is how the alliance will steer itself as this conflict closes. While many in the horde are ready for peace, there are still some parties that are not exactly ready or willing to throw out the white flag of truce just yet. I would imagine with the next expansion we will see those same forces attempting to throw a coup now that they know they can eliminate one horde warchief, why not another.

  2. #142
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultramonkey View Post
    Except most of the Highborne accepted back are the same ones who were alive 10,000 years ago. Orcs don't have the benefit of immortality and new generations have taken over.
    yeah. many of the orcs now are part of a new generation, so only have stories to live off of. and when your born into slavery and grown up in slave camps, and get told stories of orcs who torn though battle fields and killed hundreds of humans at a time, that is the only thing that may have kept many orcs going, the thought that oen day they will get to slaughter there slave masters for what they did.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by baldcore View Post
    Honestly the only person I can see leading the orcs is Thrall. While he may not lead the horde directly his role of advisor will allow him to steer the horde through the rocky path that has been left in the wake of Garrosh's defeat. What does concern me though is how the alliance will steer itself as this conflict closes. While many in the horde are ready for peace, there are still some parties that are not exactly ready or willing to throw out the white flag of truce just yet. I would imagine with the next expansion we will see those same forces attempting to throw a coup now that they know they can eliminate one horde warchief, why not another.
    The problem with that is the Horde has been ready for peace numerous times, only for it to be quashed by rogue Alliance bands or outside forces. Daelin Proudmoore springs to mind. There will never be a successful peace summit until Blizzard decides to unite the factions in a future expansion.

  4. #144
    Stood in the Fire DaHomieG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by High Priestess Ishanah View Post
    .. A non Orc to govern them?

    Lets tick off their former leaders-

    Warchief Blackhand. Corrupt warmonger, a puppet of an even bigger monster, Gul'dan

    Warchief Doomhammer, admitedly badass, who while not corrupt, still rampaged through an alien world with his demonic powered army and butchered thousands, if not more

    Warchief Thrall, raised by humans, under whom the horde actually proved itself more than it's detractors were willing to give it

    .. Warchief Garrosh, a trueblooded Orc, and also a monster who tried to finish what the others started, but without the demon influence. managed to do this with near full support of the Orcish people.

    Warchief Vol'jin, a TROLL, chosen by the human raised orc

    are they trying to tell us something? Do the Orcs NEED a ruler who isn't an -Orc- to avoid going evil?

    i honestly dont like it.
    You missed Ner'zhul but that's okay.

  5. #145
    Why do Horde fanbois continually confuse slavery and slave camps with INTERNMENT camps?

    Internment is not the same as slavery. They were kept prisoner, not used as slave labor.

    Honestly, it was a damn sight better than what they gave to the natives when they came howling out of the portals. Orcs had no camps for prisoners, becausere there weren't prisoners to take.

    Just mountains of corpses.

    Compared to that, internment is getting off light.

  6. #146
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultramonkey View Post
    The problem with that is the Horde has been ready for peace numerous times, only for it to be quashed by rogue Alliance bands or outside forces. Daelin Proudmoore springs to mind. There will never be a successful peace summit until Blizzard decides to unite the factions in a future expansion.
    yeah. although garrosh was the ultimate extreme in terms of breaking peace, the alliance is always as much to blame for ruining peace or chance of it, well claiming pride and a right to do it.
    Whats the better Jainas going to do the same soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by atsawin26 View Post
    Why do Horde fanbois continually confuse slavery and slave camps with INTERNMENT camps?

    Internment is not the same as slavery. They were kept prisoner, not used as slave labor.

    Honestly, it was a damn sight better than what they gave to the natives when they came howling out of the portals. Orcs had no camps for prisoners, becausere there weren't prisoners to take.

    Just mountains of corpses.

    Compared to that, internment is getting off light.
    shows how little you know. If you read lord of the clans, and cycle of hatred, you'd know that these orcs were infact sold off as slaves to the alliance, infact one orc accounting how he was sold as a slave to human masters and treated as scum worse then an animal.

    If you want to make such bold statements, try and back them up.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    yeah. although garrosh was the ultimate extreme in terms of breaking peace, the alliance is always as much to blame for ruining peace or chance of it, well claiming pride and a right to do it.
    Whats the better Jainas going to do the same soon.

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    shows how little you know. If you read lord of the clans, and cycle of hatred, you'd know that these orcs were infact sold off as slaves to the alliance, infact one orc accounting how he was sold as a slave to human masters and treated as scum worse then an animal.

    If you want to make such bold statements, try and back them up.
    You're one of those people that believe the plural form of anecdotes is data, right?

    But, I'll take the fanboi bait, and still return with: wide-scale internment and incidents of individual slavery are still far more lenient than wide-scale genocide and butchery.

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by atsawin26 View Post
    You're one of those people that believe the plural form of anecdotes is data, right?

    But, I'll take the fanboi bait, and still return with: wide-scale internment and incidents of individual slavery are still far more lenient than wide-scale genocide and butchery.
    Then you also don't understand the context of the characters in question. To an orc, dying as a slave without a weapon in hand and not on the fields of battle, is the most dishonorable way of dying they can imagine. Being unable to fight, and living that way, is worse then dying in combat to orcs.
    so saying 'they got of light' when every account of it tells the orcs saying it was the worst moment in there lives, theres a reason for it.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Then you also don't understand the context of the characters in question. To an orc, dying as a slave without a weapon in hand and not on the fields of battle, is the most dishonorable way of dying they can imagine. Being unable to fight, and living that way, is worse then dying in combat to orcs.
    so saying 'they got of light' when every account of it tells the orcs saying it was the worst moment in there lives, theres a reason for it.
    Regardless of culture, the orcs survived their internment and got a new chance at life. Something none of their victims got.

    And let's not talk of orcish "honour" as they slaughtered countless civilians as well. Women, children, the elderly, the unarmed. They just butchered indiscriminately anyone that wasn't one of their own.

    But I guess I agree, they should have been treated the same way their values dictated they treat all other races: they should have been slaughtered down to the last woman and child rather than face the horrible prospect of a life spent not murdering others.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Cernunnos View Post
    The head of each of the clans is the Chieftain. The Warchief is the one in charge of all of the chieftains.

    Drek'thar is chieftain of the Frostwolves
    Grom Hellscream was chieftain of the Warsong
    Jorin Deadeye is chieftain of the Bleeding Hollow clan (or whats left of it)
    Thrall was the Warchief.
    Baine is not Warchief of the Tauren clans, he is HighChieften, it is what you call a Chieften that is in charge of other chieftens, even though when the Horde began they decided to call their HighChieften "Warchief" because, you know, he was only a "temporary" Chieften, of the clans, for the War against the Draenei, so if when Cairne united the Tauren clans for a war and is position defined as "temporary" Chieften of the those clans for that war, they would call him something similar, but it never happened because when he rallied the clans to the Horde the Tauren people (and Rexxar coof coof) proclaimed him as their HighChieften and representative of the Tauren in the Horde.

    As it turns out Warchief did become the definitive title of the Chieften that commands the organization multi-racial called Horde, Warchief does not command ONLY the Orcs, but all the Races affiliated with the Horde as a whole (Forsaken, Blood Elfs, Tauren, Darkspear/Shatterspear Trolls, and Bligewater Goblins need to answer to the Warchief as well).

    So the appropriate title for the Orc representative of the Orc Clans on the Horde, should be by default HighChieften/HighFarseer (that depends if the one chosen will be shaman and if he/she prefers to be called like that, like Drek'thar that does not consider himself "Chieften" but a "Farseer" of the Frostwolf Clan, even though with Durotan dead he is the one in charge of the Clan).

    TL: DR? IMHO the title of the representative of the Orcs will be "HighChieften/HighFarseer" and not "Warchief".

  11. #151
    I still think Vol'jin's place as Warchief is temporary. He has expressed his wish to not be in that position before Garrosh was chosen, and showed it when Thrall asked him after Garrosh's fall. He also was in a position where to refuse it, would put the Horde in a much more vulnerable position. He is close to Thrall and holds him high with respect. But I think ultimately, he would see another have title as Warchief. With the issues with the Zandalari in Pandaria, and with Garrosh's attempt to kill him, I think he is more focused than ever on finding a permanent place for his people.

    Although Loth'remar would be a good choice for Warchief with his history and his ties to Azshara, the elf races and everything with that, I still don;t think he has enough build up and reason to be Warchief. So with him out, and Sylvanas/Baine being absolutely not fit to rule, that leaves very few people fit to rule, and most of them are Orcs.

    So it's tough not to have Vol'jin there. And for now, it fits well.
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  12. #152
    The head of each of the clans is the Chieftain. The Warchief is the one in charge of all of the chieftains.
    Quote Originally Posted by Neoitachi View Post
    Baine is not Warchief of the Tauren clans, he is HighChieften, it is what you call a Chieften that is in charge of other chieftens, even though when the Horde began they decided to call their HighChieften "Warchief" because, you know, he was only a "temporary" Chieften, of the clans, for the War against the Draenei, so if when Cairne united the Tauren clans for a war and is position defined as "temporary" Chieften of the those clans for that war, they would call him something similar, but it never happened because when he rallied the clans to the Horde the Tauren people (and Rexxar coof coof) proclaimed him as their HighChieften and representative of the Tauren in the Horde.

    As it turns out Warchief did become the definitive title of the Chieften that commands the organization multi-racial called Horde, Warchief does not command ONLY the Orcs, but all the Races affiliated with the Horde as a whole (Forsaken, Blood Elfs, Tauren, Darkspear/Shatterspear Trolls, and Bligewater Goblins need to answer to the Warchief as well).

    So the appropriate title for the Orc representative of the Orc Clans on the Horde, should be by default HighChieften/HighFarseer (that depends if the one chosen will be shaman and if he/she prefers to be called like that, like Drek'thar that does not consider himself "Chieften" but a "Farseer" of the Frostwolf Clan, even though with Durotan dead he is the one in charge of the Clan).

    TL: DR? IMHO the title of the representative of the Orcs will be "HighChieften/HighFarseer" and not "Warchief".
    My orginal point is only in regards to the Orcs. You are correct, that as leader of the Tauren, Cairne and Baine do not have a title higher than chieftain such as Warchief (or High Chieftain/High Farseer as you put it) like their counterpart orc would.

    It would certainly make things easier if the orc leader had a title named something other than Warchief so it doesn't get confused with Warchief of the Horde.

    Thrall was farseer in Warcraft III and was Warchief and Ner'zhul as Warchief of the Horde beyond the portal was a shaman. The Warchief of the Orcs is not always a warrior like Doomhammer, Blackhand or Garrosh or even Kargath (who replaced Ner'zhul) or Rend Blackhand.
    My name is Cernunnos, I will love you like no other, I have died a thousand deaths, each time I died I thought of you.

  13. #153
    You know, for all the kvetching people do about Green Jesus, I find myself both irritated and inspired.

    Green Jesus put Brown Hitler in charge, realized it was a problem too late, and had to team up with Blue Mandela, Black-and-White Buddha, and Bull Roosevelt Jr. to put him down. King Dubya shows up but who cares about that...

    ...okay, I jest on the last part, because while I'm admittedly Horde-biased, I do think Wrynn improved DRASTICALLY during Mists, if only for going from GRR ORC BAD to 'I was a terrible father, I'm going to make up for it, and I have to trust my...son...WAITWHEREISHEGETMEMYBOYBACK!'

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by atsawin26 View Post
    Why do Horde fanbois continually confuse slavery and slave camps with INTERNMENT camps?

    Internment is not the same as slavery. They were kept prisoner, not used as slave labor.

    Honestly, it was a damn sight better than what they gave to the natives when they came howling out of the portals. Orcs had no camps for prisoners, becausere there weren't prisoners to take.

    Just mountains of corpses.

    Compared to that, internment is getting off light.
    Incorrect. Look up Aliden Perenolde some time. He and several others that ran the internment camp desired to turn the orcs into slave labor. He even had taken the liberty to take some of the orcs back to his own little homestead to serve as laborers on the farm. I can still remember the first time I found that little farmstead prior to BC and feeling a great swell of pride when made short work of him.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by atsawin26 View Post
    You're one of those people that believe the plural form of anecdotes is data, right?

    But, I'll take the fanboi bait, and still return with: wide-scale internment and incidents of individual slavery are still far more lenient than wide-scale genocide and butchery.
    I guess the orcs built that statue of Lothar in Burning Steppes because they loved him so much...
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  16. #156
    Herald of the Titans Achaman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by High Priestess Ishanah View Post
    .. A non Orc to govern them?

    Lets tick off their former leaders-

    Warchief Blackhand. Corrupt warmonger, a puppet of an even bigger monster, Gul'dan

    Warchief Doomhammer, admitedly badass, who while not corrupt, still rampaged through an alien world with his demonic powered army and butchered thousands, if not more

    Warchief Thrall, raised by humans, under whom the horde actually proved itself more than it's detractors were willing to give it

    .. Warchief Garrosh, a trueblooded Orc, and also a monster who tried to finish what the others started, but without the demon influence. managed to do this with near full support of the Orcish people.

    Warchief Vol'jin, a TROLL, chosen by the human raised orc

    are they trying to tell us something? Do the Orcs NEED a ruler who isn't an -Orc- to avoid going evil?

    i honestly dont like it.
    atleast it aint sylvanas who knows what she wouldve done considering lately..

  17. #157
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrankyBastard View Post
    You know, for all the kvetching people do about Green Jesus, I find myself both irritated and inspired.

    Green Jesus put Brown Hitler in charge, realized it was a problem too late, and had to team up with Blue Mandela, Black-and-White Buddha, and Bull Roosevelt Jr. to put him down. King Dubya shows up but who cares about that...

    ...okay, I jest on the last part, because while I'm admittedly Horde-biased, I do think Wrynn improved DRASTICALLY during Mists, if only for going from GRR ORC BAD to 'I was a terrible father, I'm going to make up for it, and I have to trust my...son...WAITWHEREISHEGETMEMYBOYBACK!'
    oh yes, Varian improved, because he's been shoved in the limelight all through out mists.

    What I find funny (in a retarded sort of way) is how Varian has been shoved in faces faces across pandaria, as much as Thrall has in cataclysm, and in the end its Varian who speaks for the alliance (because its such an 'alliance' isn't it).. yet people don't bitch about how Varian is 'metzens' favorite', even when he voices the character the same as Thrall.
    Last edited by Trassk; 2013-09-17 at 03:29 PM.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Almatari View Post
    I think the orcs do need a non-orc to govern them. At least for the time being. Their code of honor and respect in society is based on how many heads they've collected. Sure, their society didn't start that way but it's how they are now. While they get their messed up culture together, they need a leader to direct them back to a less combative way of life.
    No thanks. The corruptions by demonic blood was the best thing that ever could happened to the orcs, i hope it rather returns more downroad. Would be rather supercool, if Gul'dan somehow would return through a time portal or he said that skull of him was a fake and be the old/new Messiahs for the horde. His fine evil campaigns in the first 2 wars, should have lasted a bit longer and his character more fleshed out, he died way to soon, mind you?

    His first duty after returning could be to crucify green jesus. I think game subscriptions will be skyrocket somewhat. Garrosh could return to be his executioneer, he isn't really warchief material, but might work good as a blood Hound.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DesoPL View Post
    Sir you are drunk!

    Doomhammer is in opposite against the Gul'Dan and Blackhand. Since Gul'Dan wanted to destroy whole orc race with his plans. You played ever Warcraft 2 by the way?
    Gul'dan only cared for power, not destroying the whole orc race, they were just a tool for him. Actually not even the demons wanted to detroy the orc race, just corrupt and use them. So what the hell are you saying here anyways?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endre View Post
    Orcs are Orcs! Fucking hell, Warcraft is the only lore that has Orcs, who are fucking kitten, puppy huggers! Jesus Christ! At least one race in this game that's about WAR and people want to destroy that! Go play Hello Kitty Adventure seriously! Or rename the game, 'cause this is bullshit. Orcs need a War-hungry leader, if the whole game is based on fucking lolipops, let at least the race that's the most war-hungry, be that!
    very well said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keristrasza View Post
    Angry much? The game's name is indeed World of Warcraft, but that doesn't mean that 100% of the game needs to be about war 100% of the time, and that the orcs (or any other race) needs to be a blood thirsty, warmongering, savage every minute of every single day. I don't know about YOU but that would get very boring to me, very fast.

    I also love how your first "Insult" is to tell someone to play hello kitty adventure, because they don't agree that the entire game should be blood gut and gore, war 24/7. Seriously, grow up. Maybe you should find a new game, if this one isn't suiting your needs, maybe go play Halo or C.o.D. (See what I did there?)
    last time a warcraft game was 100% total war, was warcraft 2. The enternal peace and their fake wars get very boring by now. This game doesn't deserve the name WAR in it, to be honest.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Volljin really just is Thrall in disguise they are both peacemakers no WARchief material and thus the story stops again. Use a Thrall model on Voljin and skip the silly speech and you got Thrall's mindset.

    Lets hope he is just a temporary solution.

    Well, i pray the burning legion will corrupt or wipe those peacelovers all out. They bored people long enough by now, and after pandaland its about time the game gets quite darker, this is lovecraft.

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Neoitachi View Post
    Baine is not Warchief of the Tauren clans, he is HighChieften, it is what you call a Chieften that is in charge of other chieftens, even though when the Horde began they decided to call their HighChieften "Warchief" because, you know, he was only a "temporary" Chieften, of the clans, for the War against the Draenei, so if when Cairne united the Tauren clans for a war and is position defined as "temporary" Chieften of the those clans for that war, they would call him something similar, but it never happened because when he rallied the clans to the Horde the Tauren people (and Rexxar coof coof) proclaimed him as their HighChieften and representative of the Tauren in the Horde.

    As it turns out Warchief did become the definitive title of the Chieften that commands the organization multi-racial called Horde, Warchief does not command ONLY the Orcs, but all the Races affiliated with the Horde as a whole (Forsaken, Blood Elfs, Tauren, Darkspear/Shatterspear Trolls, and Bligewater Goblins need to answer to the Warchief as well).

    So the appropriate title for the Orc representative of the Orc Clans on the Horde, should be by default HighChieften/HighFarseer (that depends if the one chosen will be shaman and if he/she prefers to be called like that, like Drek'thar that does not consider himself "Chieften" but a "Farseer" of the Frostwolf Clan, even though with Durotan dead he is the one in charge of the Clan).

    TL: DR? IMHO the title of the representative of the Orcs will be "HighChieften/HighFarseer" and not "Warchief".
    The orc leader is Lord Of Clans... Not Warchief. The Warchief since Thrall's Horde is the leader/Chief Commander of the whole organization, with all the races.

  20. #160
    Herald of the Titans Khaza-R's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by High Priestess Ishanah View Post

    are they trying to tell us something? Do the Orcs NEED a ruler who isn't an -Orc- to avoid going evil?

    i honestly dont like it.
    This was my biggest qualm to the conclusion to Garrosh's storyline. Orcs were made to look the villians with no redemption offered in the storyline.

    We need a real, true Orc to show that Orcs can be honorable without the aid of others. Saurfang was the best hope for this, but after 5.4 I don't think he'll be a major part of the story anymore. As you said, Thrall will never count because he was raised by humans. Nazgrim, another honorable Orc leader is now dead.

    Orcs are in bad shape post 5.4. Hopefully the next expansion may change that.

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