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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Gnolp View Post
    CCing a healer and nuking a DPS is usually far more effective. Every time I try to do that though, people go and attack the healer!
    this so much, against competent players (ie not the typical bg'r) tunneling the healer lets the dps do what ever they feel like usually punishing the tunneling dps

    Quote Originally Posted by Redlikemyrage View Post
    One day, they will realize that a healer should be able to die 1v1... Not just fall over dead, but that a healer can actually get outplayed and die 1v1. This is almost nonexistent in this game. A healer in pvp should STRUGGLE to heal in a 3v3 or 4v4 setting or whatever. The fact that you can run around as a healer with one or two people beating on you and still manage to keep your teammates alive is broken.

    Mark my words, until healers can die 1v1 they will continually be overpowered.
    what are you talking about they very much do, on everything you just said. and if two people are beating on a healer not forcing cds, they are undergeared or flat bad, no exception.
    Last edited by Stormspellz; 2013-09-17 at 06:11 PM.
    Stormspellz -mugthol
    Battletag - Stormz#1438

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormspellz View Post
    this so much, against competent players (ie not the typical bg'r) tunneling the healer lets the dps do what ever they feel like usually punishing the tunneling dps


    what are you talking about they very much do, on everything you just said. and if two people are beating on a healer not forcing cds, they are undergeared or flat bad, no exception.
    No. Just no. I take my disc priest with timeless isle 496 gear into bgs and only tend to die 3 or 4v1. I've seen several full tyrannical geared players try and bring me down. Outside of gimmicks (berzerking buff, powerball buff), it just does not happen. You are facing some pretty poor healers if they are dying 1v1 easily.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Redlikemyrage View Post
    No. Just no. I take my disc priest with timeless isle 496 gear into bgs and only tend to die 3 or 4v1. I've seen several full tyrannical geared players try and bring me down. Outside of gimmicks (berzerking buff, powerball buff), it just does not happen. You are facing some pretty poor healers if they are dying 1v1 easily.
    disc =/= all healers, disc and resto are the strongest healers by a large margin, even then any competent dps can easily pressure a healer, and "full tyrannical" is a joke of a measuring stick since any active pvper should have it by now regardless of "skill", and the typical bg player is HORRIBLE at pvp.
    Stormspellz -mugthol
    Battletag - Stormz#1438

  4. #44
    I think the issue is that not enough people in bgs use cc, that combined with players attacking randomly when there are targets that are at low health, and those of course who completely ignore the the bg objectives, and instead fight on the road.
    Last edited by Aoibhe; 2013-09-17 at 08:02 PM.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormspellz View Post
    disc =/= all healers, disc and resto are the strongest healers by a large margin, even then any competent dps can easily pressure a healer, and "full tyrannical" is a joke of a measuring stick since any active pvper should have it by now regardless of "skill", and the typical bg player is HORRIBLE at pvp.
    But you still are ignoring the fact that outside of a few outlying specs, healers don't die 1v1. That makes healers broken, period.

    I will concede the fact that disc is extremely powerful right now. But this doesn't change the fact that when I get on my pvp geared toons and cannot kill a healer, period, there is something wrong. Healers should have to work to stay alive, not run around with lolinstantfullhealth spells. When the viable strat in arena always involves CCing a healer and killing a dps, something is wrong. Unless the healer makes HUGE mistakes, and lots of them, there is little you can do to actually score a kill on one before anything else dies. A healer should need strong peels and support CC to stay alive.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Redlikemyrage View Post
    But you still are ignoring the fact that outside of a few outlying specs, healers don't die 1v1. That makes healers broken, period.

    I will concede the fact that disc is extremely powerful right now. But this doesn't change the fact that when I get on my pvp geared toons and cannot kill a healer, period, there is something wrong. Healers should have to work to stay alive, not run around with lolinstantfullhealth spells. When the viable strat in arena always involves CCing a healer and killing a dps, something is wrong. Unless the healer makes HUGE mistakes, and lots of them, there is little you can do to actually score a kill on one before anything else dies. A healer should need strong peels and support CC to stay alive.
    healers do die 1v1, they just dont' fall over, and some specs have real trouble fighting certain healers (like mage vs mw or druid), but your typical "healer killer" specs do just fine against healers, bm, dks, rogues, ect.

    also its not a 1v1 balanced game, in 3s healers very much are swap targets and very much do die. your typical mongloid bg'r who randomly mind freezes on cd and asphyxiates you when you are already stunned are the people who can't kill healers, and frankly they shouldn't be able to with that game play.
    Stormspellz -mugthol
    Battletag - Stormz#1438

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormspellz View Post
    healers do die 1v1, they just dont' fall over, and some specs have real trouble fighting certain healers (like mage vs mw or druid), but your typical "healer killer" specs do just fine against healers, bm, dks, rogues, ect.

    also its not a 1v1 balanced game, in 3s healers very much are swap targets and very much do die. your typical mongloid bg'r who randomly mind freezes on cd and asphyxiates you when you are already stunned are the people who can't kill healers, and frankly they shouldn't be able to with that game play.
    Typical BG players are indeed that bad, I can't disagree with you there. I know that healers, and the game in general, isn't balanced around 1v1, rather it is balanced around group play. That being said, then why is it healers are god-mode 1v1? They should be balanced around needing a friend at least to stay alive.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Redlikemyrage View Post
    Typical BG players are indeed that bad, I can't disagree with you there. I know that healers, and the game in general, isn't balanced around 1v1, rather it is balanced around group play. That being said, then why is it healers are god-mode 1v1? They should be balanced around needing a friend at least to stay alive.
    Because if healers can't even survive 1v1 without a friend, they'll fail miserably keeping someone up in a situation where 2 or more people are on somebody (3v3), thus making them completely useless.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Redlikemyrage View Post
    Typical BG players are indeed that bad, I can't disagree with you there. I know that healers, and the game in general, isn't balanced around 1v1, rather it is balanced around group play. That being said, then why is it healers are god-mode 1v1? They should be balanced around needing a friend at least to stay alive.
    healers aren't god mode....if you land your interrupt and then follow up your specs secondary cc whether silence or stun you can force major cds-trinkets, shield walls ect.
    Stormspellz -mugthol
    Battletag - Stormz#1438

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormspellz View Post
    healers aren't god mode....if you land your interrupt and then follow up your specs secondary cc whether silence or stun you can force major cds-trinkets, shield walls ect.
    I really don't like the assumptions you are making with this post. I know how to interrupt a healer. I know how to use my other CC abilities. What about forcing defensive CD's from a healer suddenly makes you think they are free kills?

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Redlikemyrage View Post
    I really don't like the assumptions you are making with this post. I know how to interrupt a healer. I know how to use my other CC abilities. What about forcing defensive CD's from a healer suddenly makes you think they are free kills?
    in a game of cds vs cds, forcing big cds for small ones is a win, and never said they were a free kill, but certainly aren't god mode.
    Stormspellz -mugthol
    Battletag - Stormz#1438

  12. #52
    We are talking random bg's here I assume. Healers are far from undying in them and all it actually boils down to is a little communication. Players are making healers much worse problem than they actually are. In randoms it is usually more effective to train the healer since CC chains don't usually happen. Now if the players don't get that, the answer to this problem is not just "nerf the healers to ground".

    I've had many games as healer where they have actually managed to CC chain me properly or train me directly and there is not much I can do alone. In randoms you don't usually get peels from others and when the opposite team is focused to train you down they will get you if they know even slightly how to handle you.

    The problem you are raging about concerns both sides and it is not actually the healers being OP there but the lack of any communication with your team and that people tend to just tunnel the first target they see. Now I just pointed out the situation in random bg's I'm not discussing 1v1 here.

  13. #53
    Fine, ill roll over and die when there's 3 or more enemies in my perimeter - if you just make sure to reduce the amount of players in the bg to a bare minimum.

    It's a funny paradox you guys are arguing about. We should be killable solo, but get blamed if thee one hunter dies fighting at lm 9vs9...

  14. #54
    The Lightbringer Tharkkun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redlikemyrage View Post
    No. Just no. I take my disc priest with timeless isle 496 gear into bgs and only tend to die 3 or 4v1. I've seen several full tyrannical geared players try and bring me down. Outside of gimmicks (berzerking buff, powerball buff), it just does not happen. You are facing some pretty poor healers if they are dying 1v1 easily.
    That's intended. Blizzard said a healer is balanced for having the ability to keep themselves and 2 others alive. So unless you have 2 or more you shouldn't expect to beat them 1 v 1. Especially if people are peeling you off. That's why it's better to cc or toss some damage over and then burn a dps while they heal themselves.

  15. #55
    Unless you're on a specific battlegroup, why do people feel the need to make contrasts between horde and alliance skill level and class diversity? It's nearly identical in every respect on both sides.

  16. #56
    The Patient Phocket's Avatar
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    Woah, you mean to tell me that I have to use teamwork, coordination and skill in a game mode that requires teamwork, coordination and skill? You mean I can't go pewpewlazorz and roll someone in two globals with my super-duper handy-dandy swifty one-shot macro? Well this game sucks and healers are op, I quit!

    ^that's the summation of a majority of the posts in this thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lokoz View Post
    Me: "Ok if its a healer/dps go for healer then dps! Alright?"
    Partner: "What if its a Paladin combo?"
    Me: "Then just leave..."

  17. #57
    Legendary! Korgoth's Avatar
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    No one is attacking healers because it feels impossible to actually kill them. Healing is so far beyond broken in game right now that even attempting to kill one is just a lesson in futility.
    "Gamer" is not a bad word. I identify as a gamer. When calling out those who persecute and harass, the word you're looking for is "asshole." @_DonAdams
    When you see someone in a thread making the same canned responses over and over, click their name, click view forum posts, and see if they are a troll. Then don't feed them.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Tharkkun View Post
    That's intended. Blizzard said a healer is balanced for having the ability to keep themselves and 2 others alive. So unless you have 2 or more you shouldn't expect to beat them 1 v 1. Especially if people are peeling you off. That's why it's better to cc or toss some damage over and then burn a dps while they heal themselves.
    They aren't at all balanced this way currently, though. They can easily keep more than 2 other people alive.

  19. #59
    Right now, at the beginning of 5.4 with around 75% resilience with trinket set bonus and everybody running around in tyrannical healers are just freakishly hard to kill, yet their healed targets. 3 average people need AT LEAST 15 seconds of uptime with cds up + stun/silence/cc chain to kill an averagely well played healer. Focusing the dd and cc'ing healers is far more effective now.

    Let's see what happens when more people run around more grievously geared.

    Everybody not seeing that healers (or even healing abilities for that matter: my drain life heals around 60k per tick with soul burn active, 30k after battle fatigue. That's still 2 incinerate noncrits nowadays) are beyond broken right now are either blind, play warrior, haven't stepped into arena the last two days, did not duel against healers and compared the results with 5.3.

    It may be intended that a single dps can't kill one solo (still i don't get why, bc healer was way more fun...), but nobody can tell me that it's intended that bm hunters, warriors and frost dk's can roflstomp most of them on their own whilst everything else won't get their health bar below the 90% mark. Have you tried killing something healishly as affliction? The health bar does literally NOT MOVE.

    Napkin math inc:

    Let's just compare effective hp now. In 5.3 most of the people ran around with around 430k hp (for math's sake). 65% resilience was the norm, basically tripling your max hp as effective hp: 1290k.
    Now 5.4: Now people run around with ~ 75% resilience and healers have 1,3k stamina more due to the new insignia, so around 443k hp without stamina buffs. That's 1772k effective hp right there. That's around 40% more effective hp than in 5.3. That basically screwed anything bursty completely over. DoT'ish classes were f'cked long time ago, so basically there is now nothing left what's dangerous to them healers. Battle fatigue doesn't really "compensate" for that matter as generally it's like "no heal = dead / some kind of heal = alive".

    Battlegrounds have no dynamic whatsoever and are completely settled at the loading screen based on number of healers and ilvl. You either get COMPLETELY smashed or nobody of your team dies. Alterac is an exception here. Trying to kill something feels like hitting a brick wall and as soon as a healer enters the fray the battle completely freezes until he dies/jumps off a cliff or the zerg develops into a giant flaming ball of death and one side get's overpowered eventually. I just had a warsong gulch where literally NOBODY died.

    And me? I'm a warlock. Once I press some kind of button, may it be healthstone, SacPact, Regeneration you name it I can basically facetank three not-warriors. I'm not saying I can kill them, but I won't die, they won't die, nobody dies. I just think the damage is way too low for PvP to be any fun at all.
    Last edited by Vholu; 2013-09-19 at 02:53 AM.

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