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  1. #61
    Bloodsail Admiral Lyese's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venaliter View Post
    Unfortunately our mana in a raid situation is very weak compared to a Scholar. Shroud probably needs to be buffed to 100 and Cure III made useful - prob. trait tweaks. Maybe Overcure needs to make Cure III free. Or instant. Or hit the entire party. Or something. I'm not even sure we need the spell.
    Eh, I haven't had any issues with mana, but we usually have bards cycle Mage's Ballad through rough phases (Titan phase 4/5), and between fishing for Freecure procs and Regen, most mana's actually wasted crosshealing with the other healer. I will admit of all the spells, Cure III is only marginally useful either if you NEED an autocrit to pick up a tank, or if for some reason you're running 3 melee.
    Sig/ava made by the amazing Elyssia! ♥

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyese View Post
    Eh, I haven't had any issues with mana, but we usually have bards cycle Mage's Ballad through rough phases (Titan phase 4/5), and between fishing for Freecure procs and Regen, most mana's actually wasted crosshealing with the other healer. I will admit of all the spells, Cure III is only marginally useful either if you NEED an autocrit to pick up a tank, or if for some reason you're running 3 melee.
    I think having the bard is the key reason here. Mana constraints much eased with a Bard.

  3. #63

  4. #64
    The Patient HeroZero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    Cure 3 needs to become medica 2 (but instead of around you its still around your target it just has the range of medic 2) and medica 2 just need to go away and buff medica 1.

    Cure 2 proc needs to be -makes your next cure 1 as strong as cure 2-
    That actually doesn't sound half bad, perhaps replace Medica II with a passive buff to medica granting it the regen effect on it. I do agree that cure III seems fairly out of place with its relatively smalle radius, but on the flip side with a larger radius it could become too strong, but who knows.

  5. #65
    Scarab Lord Arkenaw's Avatar
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    Curaga (cure 3, don't judge me) is really, really good during things where everyone will take unavoidable damage like after nails in ifrit, the trick is getting everyone to stack.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interception View Post
    Is Eye For An Eye from 34 ACN worth getting? My ACN is sitting at 30 but Ive been hearing other WHMs say that the talent is pretty mediocre and that it's not crucial.
    Yes, all classes having their best cross skills are a must for late game. It's severely underrated and a really really good spell.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Lillpapps View Post
    Yes, all classes having their best cross skills are a must for late game. It's severely underrated and a really really good spell.
    I wouldn't say it's make or break, but it's a neat little trick. Swiftcast is no question hands-down mandatory.

  8. #68
    Now that I've done a bit of 50 content for a while ... I find mana is almost never an issue unless you have lots of mistakes from the group, or a really bad supportive healer, or a really squishy tank (or some combination of all). Really good groups are so smooth, you could spend your mana doing damage in cleric stance half the time, especially with a great second healer.

    I'm still not exactly clear on the stat priority. MND obviously top. But is spell speed supposed to be focused on? What is the cap? Determination for more throughput instead or after spell speed cap?

    I'd like to see a well thought out guide for each class, but it was nice reading through that reddit link and seeing the discussion there and how others approach things.


    There is an ability I'd like to see ... mass Esuna. If you make it costly, add in a small direct heal or hot (usually if a bunch of people were debuffed, they also took damage from something they shouldn't have in my experiences).


    How is everyone enjoying their WHMs now you've had them for a while?

    Anyone have suggestions for cross class abilities for damage throughput ... say for AK speed runs with a great group? blood for blood? internal release? thunder I assume?


    For healing, wouldn't Mantra be a great CD? Stackable with divine seal?



    I'm having quite a bit of fun and feel strong but not overpowered. Getting better at mana management and spell usage as a whole, and learning when I can get away with a Holy for stuns or throwing up some dots keeps me from getting bored and finding ways to use mana if I'm near full. There are some things I would like to be different, but not much.

    I think if an Overcure proc would increase the range of Cure III, it would make the spell usable more often. It is not often that you get people stacked up and enough needing a heal for it to be worth it ... especially if you queue solo and don't have the coordination, planning, and execution of a quality group to count on. (ex: if everyone stacked on Garuda HM, especially if they lost a lot of rocks, a well timed Cure III would be amazing; but in my experience, people are split up in finder and you are better off just casting a medica II possibly followed by a medica I.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    Now that I've done a bit of 50 content for a while ... I find mana is almost never an issue unless you have lots of mistakes from the group, or a really bad supportive healer, or a really squishy tank (or some combination of all). Really good groups are so smooth, you could spend your mana doing damage in cleric stance half the time, especially with a great second healer.

    I'm still not exactly clear on the stat priority. MND obviously top. But is spell speed supposed to be focused on? What is the cap? Determination for more throughput instead or after spell speed cap?

    I'd like to see a well thought out guide for each class, but it was nice reading through that reddit link and seeing the discussion there and how others approach things.


    There is an ability I'd like to see ... mass Esuna. If you make it costly, add in a small direct heal or hot (usually if a bunch of people were debuffed, they also took damage from something they shouldn't have in my experiences).


    How is everyone enjoying their WHMs now you've had them for a while?

    Anyone have suggestions for cross class abilities for damage throughput ... say for AK speed runs with a great group? blood for blood? internal release? thunder I assume?


    For healing, wouldn't Mantra be a great CD? Stackable with divine seal?



    I'm having quite a bit of fun and feel strong but not overpowered. Getting better at mana management and spell usage as a whole, and learning when I can get away with a Holy for stuns or throwing up some dots keeps me from getting bored and finding ways to use mana if I'm near full. There are some things I would like to be different, but not much.

    I think if an Overcure proc would increase the range of Cure III, it would make the spell usable more often. It is not often that you get people stacked up and enough needing a heal for it to be worth it ... especially if you queue solo and don't have the coordination, planning, and execution of a quality group to count on. (ex: if everyone stacked on Garuda HM, especially if they lost a lot of rocks, a well timed Cure III would be amazing; but in my experience, people are split up in finder and you are better off just casting a medica II possibly followed by a medica I.
    you can't use any abilities from other classes except for black mage and arcanist. To use other class abilities you would need to be a conjurer. I've messed around with conjurer healing and it isn't all bad. The biggest issue is a lack of benediction,refresh, and holy.

  10. #70
    Yeah, I was confused on cross class stuff and saw something that made me realize that you couldn't use any other stuff after I posted. I thought the guide I was using which hadn't been updated since I found it in beta just was off, but now I understand.

    I think it would've been nice to allow a bit more flexibility in the cross class stuff, it would give you a chance to personalize more, but not necessary.

    I guess for speed runs with a great tank and dps who know how to not pull and how to avoid stuff, you might be able to get a bit more speed out of CNJ? But not having the WHM tools like you said, Holy for the stun being a great example, probably far outweighs any gains at all (and if your tank and dps are that good, it also more than likely trivializes any slight advantage in damage gains you might see as well).

    I am just being really lazy at leveling THM. I know I need swiftcast, especially going forward, but I'm just not having fun with it at the moment. I enjoyed CNJ/WHM, but something isn't grabbing me about THM nor ACN to push for the abilities. So I work on it a little bit and playing a different toon leveling other classes with a different race/style. Atm, I prefer to have multiple toons, while in the future I might migrate to using one with everything ... I just am doing a bit of RP with race/class-job combos

  11. #71
    Stood in the Fire Raminax's Avatar
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    Well, if you decide to go Conjurer for the additional crossclass skills, I think your only real damage cooldown options are Raging Strikes (Archer 4), Internal Release (Monk 12) and Blood for Blood (Lancer 34). Not a particularly impressive set, sadly. Though admittedly, they're all probably better than Presence of Mind for DPS. Mantra would've been cool if so much power wasn't locked behind a Pugilist-only trait. Its base healing increase is 5 %! T_T

    I can't ever really see going back to Conjurer in general, anyway. White Mages get so damn good Job skills and good enough cross-class options that Conjurer kind of begins feeling pointless. Though I suppose we also have less to choose in comparison to the Disciplines of War, what with many weapon skills just not being available to crossclass for a Disciple of Magic.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by evermynd View Post
    you can't use any abilities from other classes except for black mage and arcanist. To use other class abilities you would need to be a conjurer. I've messed around with conjurer healing and it isn't all bad. The biggest issue is a lack of benediction,refresh, and holy.
    You also get Mantra and Convalesence. I still wouldn't say it's worth it. Divine Seal is just as good.

  13. #73
    Stood in the Fire Raminax's Avatar
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    Actually, Convalescence is just HP restored to you, not healing increased in general. Imagine my disappointment when it wasn't the latter.

  14. #74
    Not specifically a whm question but, what would you say is the min gear requirement to start Coil?

  15. #75
    I personally am not on the goal to do it; but from what I recall seeing people in discussion either in shouts or otherwise; you should at least have all your darklight gear, some of the myth tome gear, and your relic weapon. The rest of your slots should be filled with good items as well. So that would be a min of ilvl 70 on your worst gear to ilvl 80/90 on several pieces.

    When I start working towards it, my first gear bought with tomes will most likely be chest/helm to get away from the darklight cowl.


    Maybe the requirements aren't as tight as that, maybe they are a bit tighter; but having a full darklight + relic + min ilvl 70 accessories is a really good place to start; basically everything you can get with the farmable phil-tomes.

  16. #76
    Jeez...seems pretty strict requirement wise... even for the first bosses?

  17. #77
    For those bored of farming castrum for DL gear...

    Did Castrum tonight with my FC.... 4 WHM 1 tank 1 Healer and 2 Bards... was really fun and different. Spamming holy and overall... WHM put out decent dps.

    Did 4/5 runs and Castrum felt like a new dungeon

  18. #78
    Sparkeeee, darklight gear is just like gearing up through 'heroics' in WoW ... You do CL/AK for currency and buy ilvl 70 gear. Coil is 'end game' for now, so you'd be expected to gear up for end game here like any other game. Relic weapon doesn't take long either. IF (a big if), you had a group together that knows HM Titan (and HM Garuda, duty finder can be a chore with people quitting if they mess up or a couple wipes even if it was close), you could probably get it done in a single night ... but getitng groups for chimera and hydra can be a time consuming hurdle sometimes because those fights are NOT in the duty finder.

    Check out some turn 1 videos for Coil. Listen to what the guides say about expected damage, healing output and tank survivability. In any fight, the more gear the better; skill can overcome a lot, but sometimes you just need damage.

    Better yet, HM Titan is pretty brutal in itself for most people and there is a point to which gear is going to hold you back; you'll see most HM Titan groups looking for people who at least have their darklight set (because unless you are a fresh 50, not having it comes down to laziness/lack of effort/lack of commitment ... there are valid excuses such as not enough time; but that doesn't mean anyone deserves to get in vs someone who has invested the time to gear up).

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    Sparkeeee, darklight gear is just like gearing up through 'heroics' in WoW ... You do CL/AK for currency and buy ilvl 70 gear. Coil is 'end game' for now, so you'd be expected to gear up for end game here like any other game. Relic weapon doesn't take long either. IF (a big if), you had a group together that knows HM Titan (and HM Garuda, duty finder can be a chore with people quitting if they mess up or a couple wipes even if it was close), you could probably get it done in a single night ... but getitng groups for chimera and hydra can be a time consuming hurdle sometimes because those fights are NOT in the duty finder.

    Check out some turn 1 videos for Coil. Listen to what the guides say about expected damage, healing output and tank survivability. In any fight, the more gear the better; skill can overcome a lot, but sometimes you just need damage.

    Better yet, HM Titan is pretty brutal in itself for most people and there is a point to which gear is going to hold you back; you'll see most HM Titan groups looking for people who at least have their darklight set (because unless you are a fresh 50, not having it comes down to laziness/lack of effort/lack of commitment ... there are valid excuses such as not enough time; but that doesn't mean anyone deserves to get in vs someone who has invested the time to gear up).
    I got my relic... getting +1 next week. Got all dark light apart from hands and I still need strategos ring grrr

  20. #80
    Bloodsail Admiral Lyese's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkeeee View Post
    I got my relic... getting +1 next week. Got all dark light apart from hands and I still need strategos ring grrr
    Go with crafted ring. More Vit.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Venaliter View Post
    I think having the bard is the key reason here. Mana constraints much eased with a Bard.
    It's actually not that huge of a deal. Un-Battle Voiced Mage's Ballad barely offsets Cure spammage, and we usually use BV for Foe Requiem in burn phases.
    Sig/ava made by the amazing Elyssia! ♥

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