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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by mmowin View Post
    You find out that LFR is actually x10 better than queing Flex with players from your own server.
    How many times do you people (yeah I said it) need to be told: Flex is not intended for pugs. LFR is intended for pugs.
    Flex is so you can play with your friends or guild (any number besides 10 or 25), so you DON"T NEED TO PUG.
    If you choose to pug, it will be unbearable.

    Flex is scaled from normal. Would you take 9 random idiots into normal? No. Then why would you take 13 random idiots into flex which theoretically is the same difficulty as normal?
    Get your paper dictionary out and look up scaled, obviously google and wikipedia failed you.


    As for the thread title: Flex worse than LFR? That awkward moment when....you find out your friends suck at wow?
    Last edited by Dazzy; 2013-09-16 at 09:39 PM.
    Apply blizzards model to any other subscription service,you'd be outraged:
    Netflix adds no new movies for a year, you click a new movie, there's a $5 fee.
    You're in an accident, click your onstar button, but there's an addition $20 fee for them to help.
    You turn on your tv only to find all you get are the infomercial channels. Every other show is pay per view.
    See how dumb that model is?

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    This is in general is not what you want happen when you are trying to attract a huge player base.
    Can you elaborate? It's a 19 minute video of two guys playing Mario Sunshine while shooting the shit. I don't want to sit through the entire thing. What exactly don't you want to happen?

  3. #223
    Pandaren Monk Ronnosh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tempeste View Post
    And then people complain how everyone is an elitist who won't let them stay in their Flex groups because they were bad, and it's totally unfair and Flex is a terrible feature and it's not their fault at all please fix Blizzard. It really is depressing to watch what the WoW community has degraded into.
    That's a social/community issue. That's on the community members themselves to fix, not Blizzard. Blizzard already tried and we ended up with LFR. Look how that's turned out. Flex Raid is practically an alternative iteration of LFR that puts more organizational control and responsibilities in the hands of the player and the content tunes upwards accordingly.

    You can't make groups take poor players. Those players would be better served by being proactive, tweaking their gameplay, and organizing their own groups than by crying for nerfs. Nerfing Flex isn't going to happen because doing so will essentially turn it into a second crack at LFR loot and even further deteriorate the current state of Normal raiding.
    Last edited by Ronnosh; 2013-09-16 at 09:48 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulqiorra View Post
    If you equate playing WoW to having electricity, I feel very, very happy for the rest of the world, as that kind of thinking will, inevitably, lead to the eradication of your seed from the gene pool.
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  4. #224
    Seriously, I did flex with a bunch of basically fresh geared 90s (no one over 515 ilvl, most less than 510) none had seen tot normals and most of the players were not playing their alts optimally and we still facerolled the content. It sounds a lot like the majority of players in this game want to be handed raid loot and have no investment of time or effort to do so. Is that really the experience casuals are looking for? Raiding is the last real challenge in this game and casuals want it diluted down to something that can be afked through. No one in our flex run was doing more than 100k dps (most around 75-80k), healing was not fantastic, tanking was mediocre and we still downed everything with ease. Get real, and take some initiative. I am one of the few HM raiders that does not mind seeing casuals running around in a legendary or getting to experience end game content/get titles for LFR/Flex, it does not affect my gameplay to see others have good gear or have a cool title/meta achieve. Saying flex is to hard is a joke though, flex is a great opportunity to play with friends cross realm or raid with casuals in your guild who may be good but just cant afford the time in their lives to raid consistently. If you do not like it, do not do it. Wait for LFR and enjoy that.

  5. #225
    Pandaren Monk Ronnosh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noskillz View Post
    We thought we could use flex for recruit.
    Worst. Idea. Evar.

    We basically had our main raid (8 of them) carrying 10-12 undergeared clueless baddies making the encounters hard as the normal ones, hitting enrage timers and going oom on every fight because 2 out of 4 healers' output was ridicolous.
    It probably would have worked out better for you guys if you were trying out about half that number. :/
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulqiorra View Post
    If you equate playing WoW to having electricity, I feel very, very happy for the rest of the world, as that kind of thinking will, inevitably, lead to the eradication of your seed from the gene pool.
    WoW Toons: Duskwind/Dæmion/Tobirama/Ophanim
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  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Dazzy View Post
    How many times do you people (yeah I said it) need to be told: Flex is not intended for pugs.
    Wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dazzy View Post
    Flex is scaled from normal.
    Wrong again. Someone already posted a link to the Blizzard blog, A Raid for All Seasons, that specifically indicates:
    To fill this void, we’re in the process of developing a new Flexible Raid system, which includes a new difficulty that sits between Raid Finder and Normal difficulty, while still allowing friends, family, or pick-up groups to play together.
    Don't know where you're getting your information, but now you stand corrected.

  7. #227
    I cleared Flex in a straight pug on Wednesday in 2 hours, and didn't even have everyone in vent. You have to exercise a little judgement in who you invite.

  8. #228
    Keyboard Turner Avranas's Avatar
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    I find Flex to be more enjoyable than LFR. Why? Because I did it with my group of friends and we all had a lot of fun and easily cleared it to Sha of Pride. So, in my eyes, Flex is actually better than LFR because I just can't stand LFR at all.

    And Flex has a bit more challenge than LFR does (at least that what I think anyway since LFR isn't out so we can't really compare until tomorrow).

  9. #229
    Pandaren Monk Ronnosh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dazzy View Post
    How many times do you people (yeah I said it) need to be told: Flex is not intended for pugs. LFR is intended for pugs.
    Half right. It's not intended to be pugged in the manner that LFR is, which is to say that you cannot just band together with 9-25 undergeared strangers, bypass the mechanics willy-nilly, and expect it to be a cakewalk nor can you grab 5-6 overgeared buddies with the expectation that they will effortlessly carry 10-19 undergeared players. Furthermore, there is no Determination buff to permit your group to "fail its way to victory."

    You CAN, however, rope together a few friends and/or acquaintances and, as long as everyone understands that mechanics can't be completely bypassed and a modicum of personal skill and responsibility is expected, anticipate a relatively smooth encounter.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulqiorra View Post
    If you equate playing WoW to having electricity, I feel very, very happy for the rest of the world, as that kind of thinking will, inevitably, lead to the eradication of your seed from the gene pool.
    WoW Toons: Duskwind/Dæmion/Tobirama/Ophanim
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  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by Psiclonus View Post
    Half right. It's not intended to be pugged in the manner that LFR is, which is to say that you cannot just band together with 9-25 undergeared strangers, bypass the mechanics willy-nilly, and expect it to be a cakewalk nor can you grab 5-6 overgeared buddies with the expectation that they will effortlessly carry 10-19 undergeared players. Furthermore, there is no Determination buff to permit your group to "fail its way to victory."

    You CAN, however, rope together a few friends and/or acquaintances and, as long as everyone understands that mechanics can't be completely bypassed and a modicum of personal skill and responsibility is expected, anticipate a relatively smooth encounter.
    Also helps that you can trust your friends and/or acquaintances not to misuse your vent info.

  11. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by tru View Post
    They still dont teach entry level raiders anything. the "one difficulty" model was pretty tough and was a hell of a lot more rewarding to each player. if you pugged a guy that had been raiding a previous tier then he more than likely had the skills to do well in new content. todays crowd wants everything given to them.
    Pugs have always established requirements that are specific to the pug leader. Nothing new there. I would suggest that if pug leaders want to find 'a guy that had been raiding a previous tier'--normal/heroic--that they do exactly that and ask for whatever evidence they need to satisfy that requirement. Problem solved and in the same way that it's been solved since forever.

    It's ironic that you talk about how 'today's crowd wants everything given to them' in that there are apparently those that think the game should simply give them well-seasoned tier raiders without having to do any reality checks. So I suppose that statement about entitlement is true in more ways than you probably intended.
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  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    Can you elaborate? It's a 19 minute video of two guys playing Mario Sunshine while shooting the shit. I don't want to sit through the entire thing. What exactly don't you want to happen?
    You can watch from 10 mins onwards but you won't really get it though.

    Sunshrine has got to be one of the most frustrating Mario games ever - contrasts so much with it's "happy" appearance.
    Last edited by SodiumChloride; 2013-09-16 at 10:14 PM.

  13. #233
    Pandaren Monk Ronnosh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackblade View Post
    Also helps that you can trust your friends and/or acquaintances not to misuse your vent info.
    Blizzard chat for the pugs XD
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulqiorra View Post
    If you equate playing WoW to having electricity, I feel very, very happy for the rest of the world, as that kind of thinking will, inevitably, lead to the eradication of your seed from the gene pool.
    WoW Toons: Duskwind/Dæmion/Tobirama/Ophanim
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  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    It's ironic that you talk about how 'today's crowd wants everything given to them' in that there are apparently those that think the game should simply give them well-seasoned tier raiders without having to do any reality checks. So I suppose that statement about entitlement is true in more ways than you probably intended.
    Agreed. The comments on this thread indicate how quickly players forget how pugs work. For the longest time there was no middle ground between faceroll easy and unpuggably hard, so players on non-progressed haven't experienced proper pugs since WotLK.

    The typical player doesn't read raid walkthoughs prior to playing a game for the first time. Similarly, the typical player doesn't read raid strats prior to entering a raid for the first time; they expect to learn through trial and error (you know, by actually playing).

    The typical player didn't spend weeks farming up gear through LFR, rep, and/or timeless isle-style questing just so they could go into a raid without feeling ashamed; they see the raid as their means of acquiring gear.

    The typical player didn't spend two hours on a practice dummy after the latest patch dropped in order to optimize their rotation in preparation for the raid; they'll figure things out as they go and if their DPS is low they'll find a way to jack it up.

    I know it's weird for players to actually want to learn how to play the game by playing the game, but that's just how most games are. If 90% of the players you pug with are letting you down maybe your expectations are simply unrealistic.

  15. #235
    Flex will be trade chat puggable in a few months right now its nowhere near that....its still quite a few steps above LFR not that that's a bad thing but when ur dealing with 90% of the WoW population which is god awful terrible at this game then u can't expect much.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisisvacant View Post
    It is still amazing to me how horrible most WoW players are in a raid setting. Or PVP setting. Basically anything but questing and even then you get crackheads asking what to do for a quest when it is written in the text.
    Blizzard has systematically driven away most of the player's with half a brain because they were too "elitest"

    The whole no retard left behind model has result in WoW being primarily a bunch of retards.

    Infracted
    Last edited by Darsithis; 2013-09-16 at 11:14 PM.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaqwert View Post
    Blizzard has systematically driven away most of the player's with half a brain because they were too "elitest"

    The whole no retard left behind model has result in WoW being primarily a bunch of retards.
    So they lost like 0.01% of their original player base. What a terrible lost.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    Wrong.

    Wrong again. Someone already posted a link to the Blizzard blog, A Raid for All Seasons, that specifically indicates:

    To fill this void, we’re in the process of developing a new Flexible Raid system, which includes a new difficulty that sits between Raid Finder and Normal difficulty, while still allowing friends, family, or pick-up groups to play together.
    Don't know where you're getting your information, but now you stand corrected.
    have you play LFR and flex?


    in LFR I don't need to move from four kings army,bow...etc in my under-gear mage since it won't kill me...
    but it was another story why I try it in normal...

    while in flex even if you are 518 DK dps "full gems and enchantments" it's still easy to get one shot if you are just dps like mindless zombi like I did in LFR...
    (In LFR you don't even need to know anything about most bosses as dps )

    basically Flex is easier than normal(people need to used their brain) but a lot harder than LFR (mindless zombi)


    Flex = normal pug with less armor ilvl requirement (since boss have less damage and health)

    though it look like they plan to make it easier...
    (example: hotfix > third boss orb in flex mode have fixed place...)
    Last edited by greeeed; 2013-09-16 at 11:12 PM.

  19. #239
    A lot of misconceptions here that the main reason people don't do normal mode is due to the difficulty spike from LFR. That certainly isn't my reason and I doubt that's the case for most people. It just comes down to time and logistics. LFR I don't have to worry about recruiting people and maintaining the appropriate roles in guild, I don't have to worry about scheduling, I don't have to worry about egos, drama - none of that crap. Yeah, lfr is frustrating due to numbskulls, but it offers a lot of flexibility that I appreciate.

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by l33t View Post
    What's wrong with Battletoads level of difficulty? We used to complete that game when we were kids...
    No. Kids used to brag about having a big brother who'd beaten the game while actually never having seen anything past the Turbo Tunnel.

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