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  1. #381
    The Lightbringer Firebane's Avatar
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    Rocked up in full Heart of Fear / Terrasse Heroic gear, fully optimised and ready to rock.
    Got called a noob for turning up with not enough Ilvl by a full ToT Valor geared palladin. (I felt like I was back in the Gearscore days.)

    Crushed him in healing done and RL kicked him.

    Love flex, more control over who comes and who doesn't. No more PVP geared DK tanks that don't know their arse from their elbow.
    Better than LFR, still not as good as Normal / Heroic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    I'm just being a smart ass at this point.

  2. #382
    The Lightbringer Tharkkun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    When you're playing a MMO you are required to put up with all subscribers regardless of work ethic. You don't have to have them in your guild or even run content with them, but you don't have to act like a complete jerk to them either. This is just as true when using a public pool, visiting a public library, or attending a movie in a crowded theatre in real life. It's a big world and we have to share it with all types.
    Telling someone they have no enchants, gems, sprockets and either denying them a spot in a pug or leaving a raid you were invited to isn't being a jerk. It would the same as showing up for any sport without the proper equipment. Raiding is a private event in a private game. It's nothing like a public pool or a movie theater. I'd hope you don't talk to me in a movie.

  3. #383
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaoss17 View Post
    Kinda ironic don't you think when they're just oraganizing a LFR but on their own server.
    Pugs by design are organized. There's a leader who can say yes or no to group membership. It's invitation only.

    LFR is what you get. What you said is a contradiction in terms.

    If a pug leader wants to take along the first 11-25 people who whisper him/her without knowing anything about them or checking out their history, that's their business. They have the right to do that, just like another pug leader has the right to do the opposite.

    Everyone has a choice who they play with in Flex. LFR is something else entirely.
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  4. #384
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    It's certainly badly named. "Hi, 90% of the players, you are subnormal!" Great message for a game design to be sending to the customers, don't you think?
    Isn't that what blizz pretty much told their player base when they introduced LFR? I mean good for them I guess they are a business and realized "Look. A majority of our customers are, how should I put it, stupid. BUT they are the ones making us the most money. We need to do something to make sure these type of customers are happy. SCREW the so called hard cores which only make up 5% of our customer base. I got it. Let's make a raid but for stupid people! HAZAA!! And we'll call it LFR! Double Hazaa!! I'm a genius!"

  5. #385
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaoss17 View Post
    Haha.
    People who wants vanilla back should read your comments it was so true back then and it was for normal dunjeon.

    Hahaha.
    I don't understand how people every thought somehow the players on their servers were somehow superior to the random folks you find in LFR. As a generic rule, if they aren't in a decent raiding guild and missed their guilds FLEX run, then odds are pretty good they aren't going to be that good. Occasionally we find some gems out there, but 9 times out of 10, they are going to be pretty bad. I personally have no desire to go back to a LFRless world.

    Quote Originally Posted by mmowin View Post
    Isn't that what blizz pretty much told their player base when they introduced LFR? I mean good for them I guess they are a business and realized
    No, that's what all the cool kids heard. Blizzard said, Here is something for people who don't raid, Who can't stick to a normal raid schedule, would like to see the content, aren't interested in studying their class or studying fights, aren't interested in "the challenege" of mastering content.

    The pro Elite, heard "HAHA you guys all suck, so here is a room your kind can go and drool together in"

    You can say it's the same, but it's not hard to see the difference.
    Last edited by Mad_Murdock; 2013-09-18 at 11:57 PM.

  6. #386
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaoss17 View Post
    You're missing the point that a lot of Flex are not organized by guilds.
    Meaning that is like LFR, a random player of your server is making his own raid with other random players he doesn't know to their own standard.
    Ahh, my bad, I only skimmed the thread and thought people were saying that lots of their flex groups were just really having trouble. I could see it being pretty bad in pugs if they don't check who they're inviting at all. Right though that as you said, Blizz themselves said the difficulty is not aimed at pugs but organized groups who have inconsistent attendance.

    @ others who have not liked it: If you've got a semi-decently organized group I think you'll find the experience to be very enjoyable, there's no tough dps or healing checks, but you still have to execute the mechanics of the fight.
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  7. #387
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    When you're playing a MMO you are required to put up with all subscribers regardless of work ethic. You don't have to have them in your guild or even run content with them, but you don't have to act like a complete jerk to them either. This is just as true when using a public pool, visiting a public library, or attending a movie in a crowded theatre in real life. It's a big world and we have to share it with all types.
    So what would you do when a 33 year old man took a massive dump in the pool? Or some guy started yelling profanities at you in the public Library, or the 5 old men are naked at the grocery store? As a member of society we have standards and ways to deal with it, whether it is to ask them to leave, call the police, shame them, etc. You do not have to share a cab with a naked guy that is high on crack. You do not have to allow people to join your raid for any number of reasons. Any is the key word.

  8. #388
    Quote Originally Posted by Mad_Murdock View Post
    No, that's what all the cool kids heard. Blizzard said, Here is something for people who don't raid, Who can't stick to a normal raid schedule, would like to see the content, aren't interested in studying their class or studying fights, aren't interested in "the challenege" of mastering content.

    The pro Elite, heard "HAHA you guys all suck, so here is a room your kind can go and drool together in"

    You can say it's the same, but it's not hard to see the difference.
    I think you overestimate the amount of players "not willing to learn and adhere to a schedule" compared to players who are just bad and looking for excuses.

    It's really hard to find "bad" players these days. They're almost as rare as Top 10 raiders.
    Everyone has a reason to not step out of fire and not gem or enchant their gear.
    "I don't want to waste gold."
    "My computer is old."
    "I have friends I can't ignore."
    "The raid leader is mean."
    "This is my first toon ever."

    There are no "bads" in this game, just casuals with unfortunate circumstances........ sigh

  9. #389
    Quote Originally Posted by HeedmySpeed View Post
    I think you overestimate the amount of players "not willing to learn and adhere to a schedule" compared to players who are just bad and looking for excuses.

    It's really hard to find "bad" players these days. They're almost as rare as Top 10 raiders.
    Everyone has a reason to not step out of fire and not gem or enchant their gear.
    "I don't want to waste gold."
    "My computer is old."
    "I have friends I can't ignore."
    "The raid leader is mean."
    "This is my first toon ever."

    There are no "bads" in this game, just casuals with unfortunate circumstances........ sigh
    All I read there were excuses as to why they are bad. Its quite easy to find bad players. Queue into a single LFR and odds are youll find atleast 10-15 of them.

  10. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tharkkun View Post
    He didn't start a fight. He said "You didn't enchant any of your gear, good luck" and left. He made an observation and the other guy called him names over leaving a flex raid. It says 7 enchants, 5 gems, belt buckle and two engineering sprockets. That's 15 enhancements missing.

    Do you really want to defend the extreme laziness of a raid leader organizing a raid for the last tier of the expansion? By all means please explain why that's acceptable.
    If you're going to leave the raid just leave it. There's no need to start a fight while you do it.

    And as far as what the pug raid leader does or doesn't have as gear, you clearly are never going to change anything about the enchants that a stranger has in a pug. As far as I'm concerned the only two grown-up things to do are: (a) Shut up and play, and (b) Take your leave.

    Bitching about someone's extreme laziness is only appropriate when that person is seriously negatively affecting you (and in a flex pug someone else's 15 missing enhancements really WON'T affect you), and when your complaint has some actual ability to affect that person. When it's someone who isn't going to listen to you anyway, don't bitch. Play or leave, those are the choices.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tharkkun View Post
    Telling someone they have no enchants, gems, sprockets and either denying them a spot in a pug or leaving a raid you were invited to isn't being a jerk. It would the same as showing up for any sport without the proper equipment. Raiding is a private event in a private game. It's nothing like a public pool or a movie theater. I'd hope you don't talk to me in a movie.
    Yes, if that person is a complete stranger, it is in fact being a jerk.

    If you are the raid leader, and you expect everyone to be in more or less fully gemmed and enchanted gear, then that's fine, sure.

    If you are some random person talking to another random unknown person in the raid and you say "Why aren't you gemmed," then that is you being a jerk.

  11. #391
    Quote Originally Posted by Murderdoll View Post
    All I read there were excuses as to why they are bad. Its quite easy to find bad players. Queue into a single LFR and odds are youll find atleast 10-15 of them.
    Right but no one seems to be owning up to that statement. Of course Blizzard wouldn't because obviously that would undermine their customers.

    But even on the forums they stick to PR speak.

  12. #392
    Over 9000! Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tempeste View Post
    And then people complain how everyone is an elitist who won't let them stay in their Flex groups because they were bad, and it's totally unfair and Flex is a terrible feature and it's not their fault at all please fix Blizzard. It really is depressing to watch what the WoW community has degraded into.
    Then these people can do either LFR or get better at their role. They even have proving grounds for those now.

    Unlike raiding guilds, there's no extraneous time commitment to flex raids. Any personal failings would be a pure execution of skill, which is squarely on the hands of the person playing their character.
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  13. #393
    Blizz made flex for the Casual Organized raider, Its great for me because I get to raid full time still and take a night to do Flex with my friends and family who only have one or two nights to raid and still play my main, I think its great. If your complaining about Flex raids and the players that play them then its probably not for you, it was designed for players like myself and the type of people I play with, and we enjoy it. Were also organized, gemmed, enchanted and everyone is held accountable for being ready and knowing the fights, again organized.

  14. #394
    Quote Originally Posted by minitrucker40 View Post
    Blizz made flex for the Casual Organized raider, Its great for me because I get to raid full time still and take a night to do Flex with my friends and family who only have one or two nights to raid and still play my main, I think its great. If your complaining about Flex raids and the players that play them then its probably not for you, it was designed for players like myself and the type of people I play with, and we enjoy it. Were also organized, gemmed, enchanted and everyone is held accountable for being ready and knowing the fights, again organized.
    Well isn't everyone just an upstanding smart raider who seems capable of normals but darn, just can't find the time for normals!

    There is always going to be someone who "likes" a feature but the problem is how it affects others.
    There has already been several arguments on how LFR and Flex directly effect Normal raiders.
    But more indirect affects that aren't really tangible (immersion, motivation etc..) is what I'm more concerned with.
    I know that's why I stopped raiding. It just wasn't worth the effort when you have LFR and Flex which also weren't worth running because they weren't fun.

    So now I'm 5 months sober but I'll probably come back for PvP.

  15. #395
    Quote Originally Posted by Tharkkun View Post
    Telling someone they have no enchants, gems, sprockets and either denying them a spot in a pug or leaving a raid you were invited to isn't being a jerk. It would the same as showing up for any sport without the proper equipment. Raiding is a private event in a private game. It's nothing like a public pool or a movie theater. I'd hope you don't talk to me in a movie.
    If you had followed the entire conversation you would have seen that I had no dispute with the decision to leave the group or even the act of leaving it. It was the way in which it was done that was rude. You are required to be polite to people in a public pool or a movie theater. Try talking over a movie at the Alamo Drafthouse and you'll be thrown out of there in no time. A little civility doesn't cost you anything. Being a jerk costs you in the long run because you start losing people who would potentially have improved given proper encouragement.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by frumper View Post
    So what would you do when a 33 year old man took a massive dump in the pool? Or some guy started yelling profanities at you in the public Library, or the 5 old men are naked at the grocery store? As a member of society we have standards and ways to deal with it, whether it is to ask them to leave, call the police, shame them, etc. You do not have to share a cab with a naked guy that is high on crack. You do not have to allow people to join your raid for any number of reasons. Any is the key word.
    Those examples are the equivalent of griefing in the game, and that is unacceptable. There is a big difference between a guy who can't afford to enchant his gear and a guy who pulls half the mobs in the area to watch you wipe. In the first case, which is what I was addressing, rudeness is not justified. In the second case, which equates to the behavior you described, rudeness is understandable. I don't know why you keep ignoring this portion of my comment:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    You don't have to have them in your guild or even run content with them, but you don't have to act like a complete jerk to them either.
    Note that I explicitly said you don't have to run content with them. You can still be civil to others even if you don't want to do things with them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    If you're going to leave the raid just leave it. There's no need to start a fight while you do it.

    And as far as what the pug raid leader does or doesn't have as gear, you clearly are never going to change anything about the enchants that a stranger has in a pug. As far as I'm concerned the only two grown-up things to do are: (a) Shut up and play, and (b) Take your leave.

    Bitching about someone's extreme laziness is only appropriate when that person is seriously negatively affecting you (and in a flex pug someone else's 15 missing enhancements really WON'T affect you), and when your complaint has some actual ability to affect that person. When it's someone who isn't going to listen to you anyway, don't bitch. Play or leave, those are the choices.

    If you are the raid leader, and you expect everyone to be in more or less fully gemmed and enchanted gear, then that's fine, sure.

    If you are some random person talking to another random unknown person in the raid and you say "Why aren't you gemmed," then that is you being a jerk.
    Thank you. I was beginning to think that no one on this board had learned any manners growing up. This seems like common sense to me, but many players on this forum apparently have trouble understanding this. Maybe some people should spend less time studying strats and more time learning social skills.

  16. #396
    Legendary! muto's Avatar
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    Flex is easier on some fights than LFR, and vise versa.

  17. #397
    Over 9000! Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    Flex is easier on some fights than LFR, and vise versa.
    The only thing that makes LFR "difficult" is the "herding cats" effect.
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
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  18. #398
    done flex without enchants + gems, with enchants + random gems (str) and with best enchants + gems on same gear

    -without enchants + gems in third boss inside orb
    I can only kill three mobs before time end

    -with enchants + strength gems = I can kill all 4 mobs (85k dps)

    -with right gem + enchants (for some reason I only used strength gem on my DK only to find out that cri > str... than again I haven't joined pug since cata)
    now I have 100K dps+

    LFR version was joke
    Last edited by greeeed; 2013-09-19 at 01:09 PM.

  19. #399
    The Lightbringer Tharkkun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    If you're going to leave the raid just leave it. There's no need to start a fight while you do it.

    And as far as what the pug raid leader does or doesn't have as gear, you clearly are never going to change anything about the enchants that a stranger has in a pug. As far as I'm concerned the only two grown-up things to do are: (a) Shut up and play, and (b) Take your leave.

    Bitching about someone's extreme laziness is only appropriate when that person is seriously negatively affecting you (and in a flex pug someone else's 15 missing enhancements really WON'T affect you), and when your complaint has some actual ability to affect that person. When it's someone who isn't going to listen to you anyway, don't bitch. Play or leave, those are the choices.

    - - - Updated - - -


    Yes, if that person is a complete stranger, it is in fact being a jerk.

    If you are the raid leader, and you expect everyone to be in more or less fully gemmed and enchanted gear, then that's fine, sure.

    If you are some random person talking to another random unknown person in the raid and you say "Why aren't you gemmed," then that is you being a jerk.
    I really give up. If you want to be an ostrich then so be it. If you really get offended when someone points out your laziness then fix the problem so it doesn't happen in the first place. When did everyone become such wimps?

  20. #400
    I am Murloc! Firebert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tharkkun View Post
    If you really get offended when someone points out your laziness then fix the problem so it doesn't happen in the first place.
    What you deem lazy may not be laziness at all, if you read my previous posts.
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