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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    You can completely control who you bring along in Flex mode runs. Someone is being an idiot? Out they go. Nothing is stopping you from starting up a flex group and setting some high entrance barrier.

    In LFR, you can't avoid that.
    And then people complain how everyone is an elitist who won't let them stay in their Flex groups because they were bad, and it's totally unfair and Flex is a terrible feature and it's not their fault at all please fix Blizzard. It really is depressing to watch what the WoW community has degraded into.

  2. #122
    Pit Lord miffy23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ContentsMayVary View Post
    Seems people just need to re-learn how to make PUG raid groups. Remember the gear inspections before being invited to ICC PUGs? That's all you need to weed out the baddies, because I guarantee that the baddies will be running around in PvP and/or ungemmed and unenchanted gear.
    Sadly that is not the case, it's fairly standard now to see people in full 500++ PVE gear, sometimes even correctly optimized and gemmed, yet still brain-farting all over the place. Gear is just a bit too easy to get imo, and proves nothing, hasn't for years.

    Btw on topic: Flex IS awesome with friends, we've thoroughly enjoyed it in our guild to take people that can't go normal and gear up, it's just the right difficulty for "real" casuals that aren't brain dead - they actually have to adhere to the mechanics unlike LFR, but it's not so punishing that they get frustrated. Everyone is loving it.

    However, the state of LFR and the state I witnessed in a complete Flex pug frankly shocked me speechless. It pretty much reinforces what I always belittled, many bemoaning that the game has gotten too easy. That's not accurate of course, otherwise people wouldn't be failing in pugs, but getting the gear to enter has gotten decidedly too easy, that's for sure.

  3. #123
    Mechagnome Jassinta's Avatar
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    Honestly, flex is my new favourite thing. As a raid group comprised entirely of friends from different servers (we don't PUG, thanks to flex we don't have to) it's a blessing. We've got about 13 or so of us, with a few from America, and some from Australia, and that way when the Americans decide they should probably go to bed (seeing as it's around 2am in the morning for them) we can still keep giving it a go.

    I mean, obviously it could be a bit retarded with PUGs because you never know what you're going to get, but that's sort of the whole point. If you've got a large group of PUGs, then there's really not that much difference between flex and LFR apart from the gear. People are going to be as retarded as they are in LFR, and unfortunately there's nothing you can do about it except try to screen out the morons before you add them to the group.

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  4. #124
    Flex is basically the same thing as 10 man in WotLK. Good thing or bad thing you decide.

  5. #125
    Pandaren Monk
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    Personally I am a little disappointed in the community.

    I tried out flex for the first time last night, and had a lot of wiping on the first boss before the group eventually disbanded. There were 2 main problems:

    Firstly a lot of people were dying to void zones. I am not going to be derogatory about people failing at simple mechanics, I guess we all had to learn somewhere - but there was a lot of chatter in the raid chat about finding more healers. It is difficult to get better at the game if you don't realise where the problem is and even more difficult if you don't want to know (I piped in and told the guys the problem wasn't a lack of healing, it was people standing in void zones, but they really weren't interested).

    Secondly the dps was a big issue. I have ilevel 530. I recognise that my gear is more than is needed for Flex, and I am fine with the fact that not everyone in the group will be able to match my damage output. But honestly, to be doing more than double the dps of the next highest dps in the group, for someone who never got even a single piece of gear from ToT normal (or heroic) that is pretty shocking. Inspecting the people's gear revealed the obvious reason: These guys were decked out in sub-par gear. Most gear slots were filled with sub-500 items, with only the occasional sprinkling of 502/522/535 stuff. I don't think any of the other dps had more than about 500 ilevel average.

    Which to me is just a little crazy. I can accept a lot of things, but seriously, it's like a bunch of unprepared, undergeared people all jumped at the opportunity to get a free ride in a raid. And the unsurprising result is that everyone lost.

    I guess this isn't new to WoW. I am well used to people trying their luck at Hc Scenarios and any pug raids with totally inadequate preparation, and expectations that things will be fine. This is something I personally never do. If someone is LFM I am not going to sign up unless I believe I can carry my weight for that content. The first HC scenario I did with my DK, I destroyed all the dps in the group, because I didn't feel I was up to scratch before then.

    The only difference in LFR is that LFR was designed to cater for people who aren't going to put in any effort into gearing up for raiding. So they set the barrier to entry pretty low, and then tune the content accordingly.

    Flex is not LFR. It is actually meant to be real raiding. People can't just rock up half naked, with no raid experience at all and expect to waltz through it. My message to people out there wanting to do Flex pugs: Get gear. It's out there and is easy enough to obtain with a little bit of dedication. The lack of raid experience I don't mind. Flex is a great tool to learn with.


    I learned a lot from last night's raid. My guild will be running Flex raids and we're going to need to pug to fill the numbers. I am going to be a bit harsh on who I let in, because it seems to me that there will always be people who try their luck instead of being a bit mature and making sure they are ready before signing up for group content.


    TL;DR: I am disappointed that people aren't a bit more mature about signing up for content that they clearly aren't prepared for at all. Flex pugging really highlighted this.

  6. #126
    TL;DR: I am disappointed that people aren't a bit more mature about signing up for content that they clearly aren't prepared for at all. Flex pugging really highlighted this.
    That's not surprising me.

  7. #127
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    If you don't wanna end up playing with bads don't queue for shit (LFR) and don't join Flex with randoms...
    But yeah, most people that use the queue system as their only way into raiding are horrid players...
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  8. #128
    We thought we could use flex for recruit.
    Worst. Idea. Evar.

    We basically had our main raid (8 of them) carrying 10-12 undergeared clueless baddies making the encounters hard as the normal ones, hitting enrage timers and going oom on every fight because 2 out of 4 healers' output was ridicolous.
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  9. #129
    flex is not meant for pugs.

  10. #130
    Well depending on whether it's a pug or F&F group, you need to either filter the retards or use some means of communication. If you just invite people and throw yourself on the bosses, yeah it's gonna be worse.
    You can try to fit me in a box, only to see me burst out of it.

  11. #131
    I actually found out that gold proving ground requirement is much better than it seems to represent, people know what they are doing!

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Zypherz View Post
    Honestly, if LFR never existed I daresay players would be a bit more skilled, they've just gotten lazy over time.
    i don't think this is true. i think those players were bad and lazy from the beginning...

  13. #133
    Really don't understand how people are STILL moaning about this brand new mode when you can choose who you want in your raid...

    Unbearable the lot of you.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    TL;DR: I am disappointed that people aren't a bit more mature about signing up for content that they clearly aren't prepared for at all. Flex pugging really highlighted this.
    pro-tip:
    do not, never, ever, raid with randoms. don't do it.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by noskillz View Post
    We thought we could use flex for recruit.
    Worst. Idea. Evar.

    We basically had our main raid (8 of them) carrying 10-12 undergeared clueless baddies making the encounters hard as the normal ones, hitting enrage timers and going oom on every fight because 2 out of 4 healers' output was ridicolous.
    Of course you're gonna fail if you recruit like that. Flex works perfectly when you recruit properly (I.e. only a few at a time).
    When the number of recruits seriously outnumbers the number of guildies, then you are backwards.

  16. #136
    Mechagnome Jassinta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    If you don't wanna end up playing with bads don't queue for shit (LFR) and don't join Flex with randoms...
    But yeah, most people that use the queue system as their only way into raiding are horrid players...
    This basically sums it up, except for the fact that not everyone who has no other option but LFR for raiding is a horrid player. There's still alot of them out there that are genuinely nice, intelligent people, but they get drowned out by the rest of the idiots that the internet has to offer.

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  17. #137
    You are only going to have worse time in flex than in LFR if you join or make groups that do not have any requirements, just "/w for inv" will give you a wipefest.
    No, Im not saying 540+ ilvl or gtfo, but a group that checks a bit what kind of players it has, a question about tactics and armory check will tell a lot.
    I dont even understand why you would compare LFR and Flex, LFR is not organized raiding just faceroll no need to care about anything and in flex you actually have to know the tactics, play moderately well with your class and you have to work as a team.
    Last edited by Musta Kyy; 2013-09-16 at 10:57 AM.

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  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post

    TL;DR: I am disappointed that people aren't a bit more mature about signing up for content that they clearly aren't prepared for at all. Flex pugging really highlighted this.
    Congratulations, you stumbled upon the famous scenario most PUG leaders were desperate to avoid with their PUG's before LFR was introduced, and that most people would make huge complaining threads about on this very forum, about how much they hated PUG leaders who wouldn't take in them for whatever reason.

    But this is what happens when you don't put on restrictions and requirements on people.
    Last edited by Whiskra; 2013-09-16 at 11:00 AM.
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  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by yjmark View Post
    Of course you're gonna fail if you recruit like that. Flex works perfectly when you recruit properly (I.e. only a few at a time).
    When the number of recruits seriously outnumbers the number of guildies, then you are backwards.
    Yeah, now we know... We had a couple of people leaving after our first wipe on the Sha and we downed it easily after that: dropping an underporforming healer and 2 undergeared dps made everything WAY easier in terms of healing and dps requirements.
    Flex can be very punishing if done wrong, like we did.
    'Monogamy'? Is that one of the ways people in Boringland bore each other?
    -Curvy

  20. #140
    Stood in the Fire Snorkles's Avatar
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    I did Flex last night with a bunch of guys from the guild I'm in (they raid normals, I don't - haven't done since TBC/First tier of WotLK) and it was really fun. I was pretty out of practice though so the first 2 bosses I sucked (we 9 manned both and I was basically carried) but by the third and fourth I'd found my feet and was actually pumping out some okish DPS. Was nothing compared to the ilvl 540+ guys with meta and cloak, but still, given me that 'taste' of raiding that I've not had in a long time.

    I'm too polite to inflict my rubbishness on normal guild progression and/or a PuG, but with flex it gave me that stepping stone to get back into raiding and, for the first time in a while, I'm actually quite excited!

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