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  1. #1

    [Guardian] Ysera's Gift vs Renewal

    Ysera's gift I see some uses for, but honestly for progression tanking, I am much more concerned with dealing with emergency situations where my health goes down to like 30% or below, and for that renewal is needed. Getting spike damage is the only "threat" I'm really concerned with.


    Thoughts on what other Guardians are picking between the two atm?

  2. #2
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    i not a big fan of YG for gaurdian, passives are by design weaker than on-use cooldowns, because passive abilities require no skill or judgement to use. there is an 'easiness' tax built into to many such Talent options.

    i use Renewal for raids, and CW for Dungeon farming and easy-ish solo content.

    on the other hand i really like YG for all other specs. Balance, and Resto have so many buttons to press that it's just nice to let YG do it thing and not have to think about it. For resto, CW is just a just an extra strong rjv on a delay, and renewal is basically useless since it doesn't heal others, so YG is actually my choice for Resto as well.
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  3. #3
    From a healer's perspective i would say Ysera's Gift because its a lot of throughput for the raid and the legendary tank cloak already gives some emergency death protection on a 2 minute cooldown. If you need more than 2 of those every 2 minutes its likely because the healers are falling behind or running out of mana and Ysera's Gift will help with that.

    I realize Blizzard has said that generally, active talents should be more powerful than passive ones, but I think this talent tier is an exception. I think its hard to say no to like 10k hps for doing nothing and at no mana cost. There simply are going to be a lot fewer emergency situations happening if you're constantly being topped up like that.

  4. #4
    Ysera's offers much more pure throughput, at the cost of burst.

    I don't think I've ever been in a situation outside of CMs where I needed an off the GCD heal and I couldn't FR.

  5. #5
    I'm currently 6/14, and so far all the burst-healing I need is easily covered by FR or DoC proccs. I prefer YG for that reason alone.

  6. #6
    It'll depend how one players and which situations arise that will dictate which is better.

    I've stuck with Renewal in raids since I don't always want to use my rage on FR, or if I need to deal with a mechanic/damage that FR can't always handle (such as two short bursts of high-volume damage where you won't/can't generate rage in time). Also, Renewal will bypass healing reduction mechanics, which can be useful on occasion.

    As I've mentioned with the DoC talent, the value of Ysera's Gift in a raid environment will really depend on the healers. If you have really good healers, YG will not contribute much. If your healers are having trouble keeping up or there's constantly someone near-death, it's really shines (similar to DoC). After parsing our 25man and 10man SoO logs from this week, the numbers pretty much confirm this. Ironically, although not surprisingly, most of the effective healing done by YG is when there was little to no threat on the raid/tanks in terms of damage output. Despite all this, I'm not saying the talent is bad, since the actual healing output from our DPS-oriented druids has skyrocketed during encounters with this talent. My personal view of the choice between YG and Renewal for an encounter would be "I need Renewal" versus "I probably won't need Renewal."

    I know I'll likely use YG for soloing old content, since most encounters aren't about surviving burst but prolonged damage.
    *Since I'm tired of reposting the link:* EH vs TTL and Hybrid Tax

  7. #7
    For a raid tank, i'd definitely stick with Renewal since it's a big heal when you need it instead of many tiny heals at regular intervals.
    For the other specs, it's rather nice, though.

    It should be noted that is the strongest talent of the tier by pure throughput, though.

  8. #8
    Between FR, DoC, Lock Stones, & good healers I don't have much use for renewal in 10m. Even if a portion of YG is overhealing, its still contributing more than a talent I will probably never use.

  9. #9
    Mechagnome Tiolith's Avatar
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    Going with Ysera's Gift, dipping that low a Frenzied Regen will most likely top you, and get a reaction from healers.
    You can macro Frenzied Regen with Healing Touch for insane heal-button (assuming Dream of Cenarius)
    Adding 30% is simply overkill.
    /console autounshift 0
    That will allow you to hit Healing Touch in Bear without leaving form and manually casting. It will only go off if it's able to instantly cast it from Bear when you have DoC buff.

  10. #10
    Field Marshal
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    I took ysera's gift instead of renewal for experimenting purposes and I couldn't imagine my life without renewal there ! :P i'm in 25 man raids, and i've faced situations where i rly like rly need renewal NOW, and it wasn't there, and I directly switched back to it. for a guardian renewal is simply too good to drop now. 1 of the situations I could think of was me being on low hp, and FR had little rage available to go off, when I used FR, it didnt heal for much and I needed like 60% HP to full, and I just had to use renewal.

  11. #11
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arielle View Post
    Ysera's offers much more pure throughput, at the cost of burst.

    I don't think I've ever been in a situation outside of CMs where I needed an off the GCD heal and I couldn't FR.
    Been using YG, since we've been 2 healing most encounters. Just don't see the need for either Renewal or CW and as Ari said, FR or DoC HT should cover it.

  12. #12
    I found yseras gift to be kinda useless, maybe cause we raid with druid and monk heal but the ticks of YG are about 2 rejuv ticks from a druid. those 5%.

    renewal is so good even with DoC and FR. No healer cares about small heals on the tank, or if the tank takes small hits cause they will most likely just be heald by smart heals anyway. But beeing able to heal big hits with DoC FR and renewal makes their lives alot easier.

    Maybe because I only use HT on other and not that much on myself.

  13. #13
    After we've cleared through SoO on normal, I'd say Renewal would definitely see more use in the back of the instance rather than the front (especially if you're already wearing heroic ToT gear, since you should outgear the first half of the instance).

    From a personal survival standpoint of a tank, the most threatening were probably Thok and Garrosh. Siegecrafter was pretty close since his debuff application was hitting for roughly the entire HP bar of my co-tank, but my standard hybrid gemming allowed much more cushion (and I technically outgear normal SoO with the upgrades I have now). Regardless, it may not necessarily be one ability, it's usually the close succession of several abilities that add up to a good amount of damage. While just using FR can deal with such situations, the frequency of such occasions increases the further you get in... and an off-the-GCD "free" heal is very useful.
    *Since I'm tired of reposting the link:* EH vs TTL and Hybrid Tax

  14. #14
    Grunt Syel's Avatar
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    In my opinion, YG is a little bit better. Even if I agree with those of you who say that a passive talent is worse than an active one, we have enough possibilities without Renewal. Since we're all supposed to raid with healers ( ), I feel like defensive cooldowns (like BS, SI, Ursoc, ...), self healing capabilities (through FR and DoC), and what the raid provides you (lock stones, symbiosis, ...) is enough to keep us alive.

    The only fight (for now) where I might have changed YG for Renewal (but in the end, I did not, because I totally forgot to swap the talents when I had the idea) is Parangon of the Klaxxi, because everybody is busy as hell, the Ursoc + Renewal combo may save you.
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  15. #15
    Well, the "numbers" does seem to favor YG;

    Renewal:
    30% healed, per 120 second.

    YG:
    5%/5sec, works out at 120/5=24 ticks, which is 24*5%=120% of your total health.

    I've purposefully ignored the fact that both (at least YG) scales with spell power (in your case, attack power), which will tip the balance in the favor of YG if renewal does NOT scale with spell power.

    I've also choosen to ignore the fact that Renewal can not crit ( at least it has the "CAN NOT CRIT" flag), YG does not have this flag, which leads me to believe that YG is capable of critting, which again improves its output.

    Did I mention the fact that YG also scales with haste?


    You are looking at, on a worst possible case scenario, 1:4 ratio in terms of "theoretical throughput". Problem with YG is that it will tick even tho you are on full health, but luckily that will spill over to friendly targets, so should not be considered a complete waste.

    With the factors of haste and critchance, you might be able to stretch it up to a 1:6 ratio.

    Which leads me to believe that renewal will be buffed, or YG nerfed, as the gap feels too big to be perfectly honest.

  16. #16
    I see what ppl are saying about YG being a strong pick in some cases. I suppose if you trust your healers' reaction times, YG might be most beneficial for the raid team.
    But for the last few raid patches, were it not for renewal, my team would not have progressed as well as it did; I saved my butt with renewal a lot. Perhaps my healers were lacking, I don't doubt it...

  17. #17
    Renewal has really nice synergy with Might of Ursoc. If you are 2 healing in 10 man I wouldn't recommend giving that up.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Bzl View Post
    I've purposefully ignored the fact that both (at least YG) scales with spell power (in your case, attack power), which will tip the balance in the favor of YG if renewal does NOT scale with spell power.
    Both scale with health, and only health. YG specificially does not scale with haste.

  19. #19
    Pandaren Monk Faithshield's Avatar
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    YG does provide a lot of healing and if you are ever at full health it heals other raid members as well. I personally enjoy passive regeneration abilities so very happy with it.
    "If you look out of the window as a human being, at nature, all of nature is unconditionally and absolutely beautiful wherever it is. Whether it's a jungle. Whether it's a desert. Whether it's the Arctic wastes. Or even your own back garden. The only ugly things you will ever see when you look out of the window are things made by man." - Stephen Fry

  20. #20
    My personal view of the choice between YG and Renewal for an encounter would be "I need Renewal" versus "I probably won't need Renewal."
    This. If you in any way will be challenged with tank damage (ra'den or similar), you should go Renewal. The only fight where I would take YG because it's actually better for tank survivability, is Malkorok.

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