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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalyyn View Post
    I'm so confused by the "lack of end-game content" claim.

    WoW puts out an average of 1 raid per major patch, and everybody says that's enough. But any other game puts out less than 20 raids at launch, and everyone loses their shit. Just... why?
    There is no end gamr option besides raiding in this game. Unless you enjoy gathering/crafting, and fate grinding on alt classes. Because that's the only real leveling option for alts. The raids have all but been cleared already. The thing is in WoW there are different modes, and it takes the general population about as much time to clear nornal modes as it does for a new raid to come out. Let alone hard modes.
    "If you want to play the game how you want, do so, but don't do it with me. If you wanna play super mario brothers and just jump up and down until the clock runs out and you die, by all means do it when I'm not player two and waiting for you to stop being an asshole."

  2. #22
    The Unstoppable Force Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalyyn View Post
    I'm so confused by the "lack of end-game content" claim.

    WoW puts out an average of 1 raid per major patch, and everybody says that's enough. But any other game puts out less than 20 raids at launch, and everyone loses their shit. Just... why?
    1) This is severe embellishment

    2) These games have years in development with ample evidence of what an endgame should look like when the game launches. They can't simply rest on their laurels b/c you can do 'something' once leveling is over.

    3) Especially as a game that is bold/stupid enough to launch as a subscription, when all evidence has pointed that the model is not popular, not worth it, and generall just a terrible idea needs to provide exemplary reasons why it chose that. Simply leaving it out there and assuming their small group of niche fans will pay for it, so we don't need to try and earn the subscrition is foolish.

    Now I don't think FFXIV is doing any of this necessarily, as I can't comment on endgame, but I'm being general to respond to your outlandish claim.

    PS: When the only other successful mainstream subscription game has 4 different modes of raiding, multiple forms of small group content, solo progression, and a ginormous amount of other activities as viable endgame, it's not very hard to wonder why people want more than 'welp, here's a dungeon and a small raid...that's it'.
    BAD WOLF

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinru View Post
    How long will this game be big for? until it dies.

    Infracted: Please post constructively.
    Seemed constructive to me too

  4. #24
    Titan Kalyyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    1) This is severe embellishment

    2) These games have years in development with ample evidence of what an endgame should look like when the game launches. They can't simply rest on their laurels b/c you can do 'something' once leveling is over.

    3) Especially as a game that is bold/stupid enough to launch as a subscription, when all evidence has pointed that the model is not popular, not worth it, and generall just a terrible idea needs to provide exemplary reasons why it chose that. Simply leaving it out there and assuming their small group of niche fans will pay for it, so we don't need to try and earn the subscrition is foolish.

    Now I don't think FFXIV is doing any of this necessarily, as I can't comment on endgame, but I'm being general to respond to your outlandish claim.

    PS: When the only other successful mainstream subscription game has 4 different modes of raiding, multiple forms of small group content, solo progression, and a ginormous amount of other activities as viable endgame, it's not very hard to wonder why people want more than 'welp, here's a dungeon and a small raid...that's it'.
    So let me get this straight: You're coming in to a thread where no less than 5 people have complained about there not being enough raids, to tell me that it's outlandish to claim that people are complaining about there not being enough raids?

    Well fuck me, I guess I owe everyone an apology. Don't worry, I'll go off myself now. I'm clearly too stupid to live.

  5. #25
    The Unstoppable Force Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalyyn View Post
    So let me get this straight: You're coming in to a thread where no less than 5 people have complained about there not being enough raids, to tell me that it's outlandish to claim that people are complaining about there not being enough raids?

    Well fuck me, I guess I owe everyone an apology. Don't worry, I'll go off myself now. I'm clearly too stupid to live.
    Excuse me, but in your haste to type an angry sarcastic rant you must have completely missed how ridiculous your post was. Clearly I wasn't referring to any number of people complaining about it, because you didn't even mention that in the post I quoted. No, it was likely the fact that you stated people wanted 20 raids at launch in an attempt to invalidate their opinions of wanting more endgame.
    BAD WOLF

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spokenlastchance View Post
    There is no end gamr option besides raiding in this game. Unless you enjoy gathering/crafting, and fate grinding on alt classes. Because that's the only real leveling option for alts. The raids have all but been cleared already. The thing is in WoW there are different modes, and it takes the general population about as much time to clear nornal modes as it does for a new raid to come out. Let alone hard modes.
    People already beat Coil of Bahamut Turn 5?
    I've yet to see any video on youtube.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Spokenlastchance View Post
    There is no end gamr option besides raiding in this game. Unless you enjoy gathering/crafting, and fate grinding on alt classes. Because that's the only real leveling option for alts. The raids have all but been cleared already. The thing is in WoW there are different modes, and it takes the general population about as much time to clear nornal modes as it does for a new raid to come out. Let alone hard modes.
    No offense to WoW ( I mean hell I played it for 8 years) but different modes don't mean much, especially considering the largest part of the player base never does anything outside of LFR raiding wise. Now as far as end game in WoW, outside of raiding it has the daily areas and professions ( which is very limited). The rest of it ( leveling alts, killing rares, leveling secondary professions, pet battles, farm, etc.) I tend to place in the " general content " category because it has either zero, or almost zero to do with actual end game.

    WoW and games like it also have the added benefit of old left over content for people to go back and do which for me at least was a huge time sink ( after 8 years I still hadn't gotten that other binding >.> ).

    Really I guess it all depends on how you play it. If you play a ton every night and are only concerned with the raiding part of any MMO then yes its going to be lackluster and probably not worth it. However, if you are like me and play it a few hours here and there ( although with some serious blocks of time on days off) its going to last you a pretty good while.

    Guess I'm the type the game is built for, I just bounce around doing whatever I feel like doing at that point in time. Might craft a bit, gather a bit, level a bit, or just run around and mess with other classes for a bit just cause, why not?

    Maybe its cause I've gotten older or something, but I play these thing to have a good time, don't take anything too serious anymore, and just do whatever. My dies of raiding like hell are over, just gets old too fast anymore. Oddly enough, I'm back to playing like I did when I first started over 10 years ago, and I'm having a pretty good time with a new group of people I didn't know til I joined the LS.

    The game is not perfect by any stretch, but I've never expected it from any MMO. I also know games need time to grow and be fleshed out, but I suspect my patience in that matter is due to playing the older generation MMO's where you had to wait on it.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Remilia View Post
    People already beat Coil of Bahamut Turn 5?
    I've yet to see any video on youtube.
    Turn 5 is the only one left turn 4 has already been finished.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Armourboy View Post
    No offense to WoW ( I mean hell I played it for 8 years) but different modes don't mean much, especially considering the largest part of the player base never does anything outside of LFR raiding wise. Now as far as end game in WoW, outside of raiding it has the daily areas and professions ( which is very limited). The rest of it ( leveling alts, killing rares, leveling secondary professions, pet battles, farm, etc.) I tend to place in the " general content " category because it has either zero, or almost zero to do with actual end game.

    WoW and games like it also have the added benefit of old left over content for people to go back and do which for me at least was a huge time sink ( after 8 years I still hadn't gotten that other binding >.> ).

    Really I guess it all depends on how you play it. If you play a ton every night and are only concerned with the raiding part of any MMO then yes its going to be lackluster and probably not worth it. However, if you are like me and play it a few hours here and there ( although with some serious blocks of time on days off) its going to last you a pretty good while.

    Guess I'm the type the game is built for, I just bounce around doing whatever I feel like doing at that point in time. Might craft a bit, gather a bit, level a bit, or just run around and mess with other classes for a bit just cause, why not?

    Maybe its cause I've gotten older or something, but I play these thing to have a good time, don't take anything too serious anymore, and just do whatever. My dies of raiding like hell are over, just gets old too fast anymore. Oddly enough, I'm back to playing like I did when I first started over 10 years ago, and I'm having a pretty good time with a new group of people I didn't know til I joined the LS.

    The game is not perfect by any stretch, but I've never expected it from any MMO. I also know games need time to grow and be fleshed out, but I suspect my patience in that matter is due to playing the older generation MMO's where you had to wait on it.
    WoW recently has a bunch to do at endgame that's why it is so successful. Because they game has so much diversity.

    The general mentality of most mmo player is to get to max level, and once you get there in FF14 there isn't anything to do besides raid/crafter/gather.

    The gathering system in this game is overly grindy. I've seen some talk about people enjoying running around mining/bot/fishing loving it not even sure how, and crafting is just plain annoying. It takes forever, and is cumbersome. It's not really complicated once you understand the badics. It's still a RNG fest. Nothing more amazing then dropping tons of HQ mats, and get a LQ item.
    "If you want to play the game how you want, do so, but don't do it with me. If you wanna play super mario brothers and just jump up and down until the clock runs out and you die, by all means do it when I'm not player two and waiting for you to stop being an asshole."

  9. #29
    Titan Kalyyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Excuse me, but in your haste to type an angry sarcastic rant you must have completely missed how ridiculous your post was. Clearly I wasn't referring to any number of people complaining about it, because you didn't even mention that in the post I quoted. No, it was likely the fact that you stated people wanted 20 raids at launch in an attempt to invalidate their opinions of wanting more endgame.
    Too late, already drank a shitload of bleach. Should kick in any time now.

    Before I go though, my point was that there is no number where these people say "alright, I'm satisfied". Not one they've stated, anyway. This game launched with, what, 4 raids? Maybe more, actually, I can't recall all of them. So what is the "correct" number? Like, I want an exact number of raids that is appropriate for a game launch.

  10. #30
    The Unstoppable Force Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalyyn View Post
    Too late, already drank a shitload of bleach. Should kick in any time now.

    Before I go though, my point was that there is no number where these people say "alright, I'm satisfied". Not one they've stated, anyway. This game launched with, what, 4 raids? Maybe more, actually, I can't recall all of them. So what is the "correct" number? Like, I want an exact number of raids that is appropriate for a game launch.
    The problem is that you and possibly even the posters you have a problem with aren't properly identifying the problem as qualitative instead of quantitative. It's not about the number of any one thing, but the quality and diversity of the end game as a whole.

    You could have 20 raids in this day and age and it would still be horrible endgame, because there's nothing else to do. While we'd love to think that would satisfy anyone, even the professionals, it wouldn't. All 'that other stuff' plays a hefty role. I believe I'm correct in thinking most people not satisfied with a new MMO really mean this, even if they say: zomg no raids, this game is awful.
    BAD WOLF

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Spokenlastchance View Post
    Turn 5 is the only one left turn 4 has already been finished.
    Are you raiding in coil right now, working on turn 5? You speak as if every FC in the game is at this point in progression.

    WoW recently has a bunch to do at endgame that's why it is so successful. Because they game has so much diversity.
    Diversity? If you are saying WoW has alot to offer to people of all skill levels then I would agree. Terrible people are simply handed out gear at max level for doing next to nothing. There are a couple small solo things like Brawlers club and Proving grounds that are neat, but that content doesnt last. Everything else is just rehashed dumbed down character progression.

    The general mentality of most mmo player is to get to max level, and once you get there in FF14 there isn't anything to do besides raid/crafter/gather.
    That about covers a majority of the activities most MMO players look for at end game. The game is currently missing PvP, which is a viable argument. But releasing without PvP in my mind is a great move until the game settles in a little bit. WoW has the best raiding in any MMO and is one of the only reason people who have played it for years still play. Bullshit things like Scenarios and Proving Grounds don't keep the interest of people who have played the game for a long time, its usually friends and group content pve or pvp.

    The gathering system in this game is overly grindy. I've seen some talk about people enjoying running around mining/bot/fishing loving it not even sure how, and crafting is just plain annoying. It takes forever, and is cumbersome. It's not really complicated once you understand the badics. It's still a RNG fest. Nothing more amazing then dropping tons of HQ mats, and get a LQ item.
    Is this your first asian MMO? This game is barely grindy in comparison to some others in the genre.

    The crafting in this game is really fun and interactive its one of the first MMOs to get it right in my opinion.

    All your comments sound like you bought the game and were expecting something completely different or you just became disenfranchised due to the rocky launch and are venting. Just stick to WoW since it sounds like that is what you're looking for.

  12. #32
    Old God -aiko-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    You could have 20 raids in this day and age and it would still be horrible endgame, because there's nothing else to do.
    This is true, and an unfortunate event for pretty much any MMO launch to date. It is not the amount of raids/dungeons that is the problem, it is the fact that there are nothing but raids/dungeons. Every MMO should look into having other options to keep you entertained, lest you run into things like SWTOR. I'm kind of worried, actually, that this is the exact same situation as SWTOR. The first month or two the game was for the looked at in a positive light (for the most part). There were issues, like ability delay, but it was overall positive. Look at it now. I think it's a fine game but it is undeniable how much the endgame/f2p fiasco hurt it.

    I really, really, really think that SE should have held off on the ARR release. They have these cool ideas, like the Gold Saucer and revamped Hamlet Defense, but they aren't implemented yet when they should be.

    I'm having as much fun as anybody else right now, but I'm worried about longevity and I already find running AK/CM over and over tiring. They need to get more into the game sooner rather than later. All we know is being added next patch is player housing.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Heh. Along with the "launch woes", "Endgame content" tends to be something that people blow way out of proportion early in the life of a game. I can't think of any games that released with a ton of endgame content, and even fewer that had endgame content at release that wasn't cleared pretty fast by the "rush to endgame" types of people.

    And yet, every game that comes out gets met with the same, "OMG NO ENDGAME WTF" stuff.



    Even if we go with the "WoW has a lot of diversity" argument (which I don't really buy, BTW) it still takes time to build up that much stuff. You can't expect every new game to have the same amount of content that 8-year old games have. If a developer tried that, they'd never release their game. =O
    I'm not sure how you can say WoW isn't diverse especially when you compare it to FF14. Let's not even take old content into account. You have currently 4 different mode types of raids, tons of instances, PVP, Arena, BG, Rated BG, Pet battles/collecting, Farmville, Mount collection, Daily Hubs, Rep gear, crafting, gathering, multiple reputations, if you're a hunter catching pets, killing rares, ganking, and leveling alts.

    In FF14 once you reach max it's less then a handful of dungeons/raids, crafting/gathering, and alts that is it. That is all you can do. Well leves which are daily quests, but you only get 6, and they provide minimal effect. No PVP at all yet. Not till 2.1 at the very least.

    The excuse it has only be out x time isn't an excuse anymore. There is a general idea of whst people have come to expect from an mmo. If we were talking about 10 years ago sure, but in this day and age no. This game is not up to par for a game everyone seems to forget is a re release from 1.0 that was one of the worst mmos of recent date.
    Last edited by Spokenlastchance; 2013-09-17 at 08:56 PM.
    "If you want to play the game how you want, do so, but don't do it with me. If you wanna play super mario brothers and just jump up and down until the clock runs out and you die, by all means do it when I'm not player two and waiting for you to stop being an asshole."

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    I'm not sure what was so "disastrous" about this launch. They had options on how to deal with it, they chose the "Stop sales" option like GW2 did. Other than the server issues, the game is actually doing just fine.
    The desaterous part was not having queues into the servers and just having people spam over and over to try and get to play. It made sitting in a queue look like heaven because at least if you are waiting on a queue you could take care of other things while you waited. Your only option for awhile in FFXIV was just to sit there and spam login or give up on playing at all. That's pretty darn awful. Now, the redeeming part is they handled it well and communicated and tried to make amends, so it's not as bad as it could have been.

  15. #35
    The Unstoppable Force Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jearle View Post
    WoW has the best raiding in any MMO and is one of the only reason people who have played it for years still play. Bullshit things like Scenarios and Proving Grounds don't keep the interest of people who have played the game for a long time, its usually friends and group content pve or pvp.
    Sorry, but this is an incorrect assumption/generalization. I know plenty of people, myself included, who are still playing for those seemingly worthless things to you. It's pretty much the only reason that people have made it so long to see the creation of LFR. Achievements, collecting, were the precursors to the expansion of content to things like Brawler's Guild, Proving Grounds, and now the GW2esque Timeless Isle. Player housing in other games is another one of those things. Supposedly that's coming for this game...which is great!
    Quote Originally Posted by aikoyamamato View Post
    I'm having as much fun as anybody else right now, but I'm worried about longevity and I already find running AK/CM over and over tiring. They need to get more into the game sooner rather than later. All we know is being added next patch is player housing.
    Have they previewed how this is going to work or is it still relatively unknown? I mean how you 'build' your house and what purpose does it server.
    BAD WOLF

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    The problem is that you and possibly even the posters you have a problem with aren't properly identifying the problem as qualitative instead of quantitative. It's not about the number of any one thing, but the quality and diversity of the end game as a whole.

    You could have 20 raids in this day and age and it would still be horrible endgame, because there's nothing else to do. While we'd love to think that would satisfy anyone, even the professionals, it wouldn't. All 'that other stuff' plays a hefty role. I believe I'm correct in thinking most people not satisfied with a new MMO really mean this, even if they say: zomg no raids, this game is awful.
    I pretty much agree with this statement as the above quote response explains.
    "If you want to play the game how you want, do so, but don't do it with me. If you wanna play super mario brothers and just jump up and down until the clock runs out and you die, by all means do it when I'm not player two and waiting for you to stop being an asshole."

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Malenurse View Post
    Why infraction? That was constructive enuff.

    If you have an issue with a moderator action, please contact Sunshine via private message, do not discuss it in forums.
    Terrible MMOchampion moderation strikes again lol.

    ANYWAYS, I like the idea of an online Final Fantasy (I was never able to play 11 as a child because I couldn't get my dad to piss out money for the monthly sub fee), but to me, it seems the game (much like 11) is based off of mostly just the novelty of playing a Final Fantasy game online with other people and not much else.

    I played a really neat little FF4 online game until it was sniffed out by Enix and destroyed, and while it was fun, it basically emulated the effect any "new age" online Final Fantasy could give me, so I dunno if I'll bother to scrap out the dough for the newest one; but time will tell.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Elenion View Post
    Definitely not, it was a rhetorical statement. It does not add, raise awareness or question anything.
    It's like saying sun is hot.
    11 died pretty damn quick, though. It could have been just a snarky "Oh yeah?? Well how long will it take to die LOL" statement, or it could have been a legitimate question based on the fact that Final Fantasy as an MMO hasn't been the most successful thing ever, especially outside of Asia.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by jearle View Post
    Are you raiding in coil right now, working on turn 5? You speak as if every FC in the game is at this point in progression.


    Diversity? If you are saying WoW has alot to offer to people of all skill levels then I would agree. Terrible people are simply handed out gear at max level for doing next to nothing. There are a couple small solo things like Brawlers club and Proving grounds that are neat, but that content doesnt last. Everything else is just rehashed dumbed down character progression.


    That about covers a majority of the activities most MMO players look for at end game. The game is currently missing PvP, which is a viable argument. But releasing without PvP in my mind is a great move until the game settles in a little bit. WoW has the best raiding in any MMO and is one of the only reason people who have played it for years still play. Bullshit things like Scenarios and Proving Grounds don't keep the interest of people who have played the game for a long time, its usually friends and group content pve or pvp.



    Is this your first asian MMO? This game is barely grindy in comparison to some others in the genre.

    The crafting in this game is really fun and interactive its one of the first MMOs to get it right in my opinion.

    All your comments sound like you bought the game and were expecting something completely different or you just became disenfranchised due to the rocky launch and are venting. Just stick to WoW since it sounds like that is what you're looking for.
    I'm on my phone so forgive me for addressing everything together.

    It doesn't matter where the gamr came from I cannot express this enough. All that matters is how it will do in the market it's being sold to, and currently. This game is being marketed to both eastern, and western mmo players. If it was only being sold to eastern players I would agree 100%, but they spent millions of dollars translating the game into three western based languages, and how the game currently is will drive off the NA/EU market base. Which would be a stupid move on SE part. I'm not asking them to turn it into WoW. I have been bored of WoW since Wrath, but I was looking for something new, and what I got from this game was a bunch of really cool concepts, and ideas that were not followed through correctly.

    Crafting/gathering in this game are like I said cumbersome. It's not hard it's press x button in x combk like a mindless drone. It requires minimal thought process, and takes forever, and is very costly. However I do it out of necessity because it's the ONLY real way to make any money on this game.
    "If you want to play the game how you want, do so, but don't do it with me. If you wanna play super mario brothers and just jump up and down until the clock runs out and you die, by all means do it when I'm not player two and waiting for you to stop being an asshole."

  19. #39
    Old God -aiko-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimPaladin View Post
    11 died pretty damn quick, though.
    I'd be interested to hear the logic behind this.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by aikoyamamato View Post
    This is true, and an unfortunate event for pretty much any MMO launch to date. It is not the amount of raids/dungeons that is the problem, it is the fact that there are nothing but raids/dungeons. Every MMO should look into having other options to keep you entertained, lest you run into things like SWTOR. I'm kind of worried, actually, that this is the exact same situation as SWTOR. The first month or two the game was for the looked at in a positive light (for the most part). There were issues, like ability delay, but it was overall positive. Look at it now. I think it's a fine game but it is undeniable how much the endgame/f2p fiasco hurt it.

    I really, really, really think that SE should have held off on the ARR release. They have these cool ideas, like the Gold Saucer and revamped Hamlet Defense, but they aren't implemented yet when they should be.

    I'm having as much fun as anybody else right now, but I'm worried about longevity and I already find running AK/CM over and over tiring. They need to get more into the game sooner rather than later. All we know is being added next patch is player housing.
    Pvp might be coming, and that's a big might.

    I agree as well its under polished they had a bunch of cool ideas just didn't pan out.

    For instance they add SCH quickly without taking steps to properly change INT based stats and traits of ACN to a MND user.

    Or the fact the only effective way to level alts is to grind fates.
    "If you want to play the game how you want, do so, but don't do it with me. If you wanna play super mario brothers and just jump up and down until the clock runs out and you die, by all means do it when I'm not player two and waiting for you to stop being an asshole."

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