Can Garrosh now officially be considered one of the most powerful Orcs in existence?

[apepi]

Of course not, he was defeated by 10 random strangers.

I beat you could be beat by 10 random strangers, it is not a good standard of strength.

[docterfreeze]

If litterally every single cog in said machine hates you, then no, that's not effective at all. Oh and Garrosh didn't take Thrall out, read his novel.

Game lore>Book lore.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Game lore>Book lore.

It doesn't matter which lore happens. Game Lore=Book Lore. So no, you are wrong.

[Kralljin]

... Political popularity and charisma?... Whaaaaa? His politcal popularity lead to a rebellion, not even all the orcs supported him.

Enough Orcs to form a Raid, there's a huge bunch of Orcs down in the Underhold.

The Orcs in the rebellion are a minority, majority of orcs were on Garroshs side.

And no, Garrosh by himself wasn't very powerful, even a bunch of quillboar were able to overpower him - Garrosh, however, juiced up and more-or-less totally embraced by the Sha energy and Y'shaarj was quite powerful yes.

By Bunch of Quillboar you mean an entire Army, even rusty dagger can hurt people in lore.

In my view, Garrosh strength greatly increased since Cataclysm, since he could keep up with Varian after Theramore and i think this trend continued.

Garrosh wouldn't be the final boss of a expansion just because he dug out the Heart of an Old God, then you could just take some herpderp character, make him evil and let him dig around in the vale.

Garrosh was able to wield the heart as weapon and actually control the Sha without any magic like the Mogu did, Garrosh is no weak pansy.

Insane yes, but strong.

If litterally every single cog in said machine hates you, then no, that's not effective at all. Oh and Garrosh didn't take Thrall out, read his novel.

Garroshs plan was to replace non orcish cogwheels and empower the orcish ones with the heart, and if this Rebel army is getting crushed by the Juggernaut already you could imagine what would happen if Players don't always win in the end.

[Venziir]

Game lore>Book lore.

Nope, it's called a retcon. First the comics did it, then Garrosh's very own novel - written to fill out a bunch of blanks - did it. Not to mention, the novels (minus the Lor'themar one) were all written by Blizzard staff, so nope. In this very case, the "book" lore goes utterly OM NOM NOM on the game lore. Two retcons should pretty much prove that.

- - - Updated - - -

Enough Orcs to form a Raid, there's a huge bunch of Orcs down in the Underhold.

The Orcs in the rebellion are a minority, majority of orcs were on Garroshs side.



By Bunch of Quillboar you mean an entire Army, even rusty dagger can hurt people in lore.

In my view, Garrosh strength greatly increased since Cataclysm, since he could keep up with Varian after Theramore and i think this trend continued.

Garrosh wouldn't be the final boss of a expansion just because he dug out the Heart of an Old God.



Garroshs plan was to replace on orcish cogwheels and empower those with the heart, and if this Rebel army is getting crushed by the Juggernaut already you could imagine what would happen if Players don't always win in the end.

Enough orcs to form a raid? Sure obviously - but all orcs? Nope. And Garrosh couldn't quite keep up with Varian, as he ONCE AGAIN managed to be disarmed, and obviously no, Garrosh is the final boss because Blizzard made him so, but Old God heart or not, he'd still need some form of gimmick.

And it wasn't his plan from day one to go all nazi on the Horde either, so that's moot argument.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Not to mention Garrosh likes to taunt Varian in battle and it failed utterly in the last novel.

[Kralljin]

Enough orcs to form a raid? Sure obviously - but all orcs? Nope.

Majority of something =/= 100% of something.

And Garrosh couldn't quite keep up with Varian, as he ONCE AGAIN managed to be disarmed, and obviously no, Garrosh is the final boss because Blizzard made him so, but Old God heart or not, he'd still need some form of gimmick.

Because it's hard to explain why Garrosh alone is suddenly that strong to become an Expansion end boss by himself and try to design an Encounter when the actual Boss is just a warrior that cannot use any magic whatsoever.

If you have a Warrior Boss which doesn't use any magic, you get a Boss fight like Nazgrim, nothing against the character but this fight is just a huge joke.

And

Garrosh is the final boss because Blizzard made him so

Is a pretty weak argument, if Blizzard says a character becomes stronger for some reasons, you have to accept it, they make the lore, reason may be dumb but that's a different story.

And it wasn't his plan from day one to go all nazi on the Horde either, so that's moot argument.

Yes but Garrosh knew that if he throws out every non orcs out of the Horde, you need some kind of advantage that wins you the day, the Heart was a pretty close shot.

[Khaza-R]

Garrosh is a powerful warrior, but not the most powerful among the Orcs. I would guesss that Saurfang, Grom, and Broxigar are all superior warriors in their prime.

What Garrosh does have over everyone though is superior willpower. He seemed completely unphased by the Divine Bell and was in total control of the Heart of Y'Shaarj. I don't believe that many other character would be capable of dominating the powers of an Old God, free of its corruption.

So as for the "most powerful Orc in existence", yes I would agree. Garrosh and Thrall are probably the two most powerful Orcs currently alive. But that's just because of a lack of others.

Enough orcs to form a raid? Sure obviously - but all orcs? Nope. And Garrosh couldn't quite keep up with Varian, as he ONCE AGAIN managed to be disarmed, and obviously no, Garrosh is the final boss because Blizzard made him so, but Old God heart or not, he'd still need some form of gimmick.

And it wasn't his plan from day one to go all nazi on the Horde either, so that's moot argument.

I disagree with you here. Garrosh has clearly gained in experience and power every expansion since TBC when he was a sniveling Orc in Nagrand. He has the legacy to prove that he's capable of being a very powerful Orc. And yes, controlling the heart was part of the gimmick in making him the final boss, but every other mortal lore character would need a similar gimmick to reach "final boss status" as well.

[MrHappy]

I still think Gul'dan had more power than Garrosh did. But considering he tango'd with an old god's heart and did not fully become a mindless beast I give him props.

[Eucep]

Strong of body, yes.
Strong of will, yes.
Charismatic, no.
Skilled, so-so.

He can go toe to toe with most other warriors and win, however his prowess is based on strength more then martial skill. His willpower is great, considering the heart as mentioned before. He is not charismatic, in fact his beligerent nature drives everyone away but those already caught in his bloodlust. Those orcs you fight in the raid are those who gave in to their desire of destruction and conquest with just a fraction (like Nazgrim) out of sheer loyalty and honor unable to question said loyalty and honor.

I'll be honest, still quite confused that the Mag'har of all orcs helped him while they were raised under Greya. The Dragonmaw and Blackrock orcs I understand. Even the Kor'kron I understand.

Back to topic, no, he's not the most powerful orc in existance. I expect even his father without mannoroth's blood could have bested him out of sheer skill and power combination.

[Restors]

Orgrim were stronger! and for most powerfull, forgot about Gul'dan? Just see what his dead skeleton skull did to felwood and illidan.

[Tyrannica]

well blizzard made Garrosh the most powerful orc ever in quite a short time.

He even looks like the strongest orc arround, just physically and he has good genes cause his father was allready one of the strongest orcs only contended by doomhammer, broxigar and saurfang, 2 of them are dead the other one is aged, but expierenced....but i think its not enough to get through with expierence and overthrow garrosh cause garrosh is the physically strongest orc alive and has the most powerful will. I think Saurfang could beat him in woltk, still, cata maybe too, but he got allready tons of expierence here, too, so it should be much closer.

But with the sha power he is easily the strongest orc by far in existence - Thrall comes next, cause it seems his powers as world shaman are unmatched - third Saurfang, cause of his many kills and expierence, but he is still just a warrior without special powers like thrall and aged.

Other powerful orcs are long dead and cannot develop further and gain more power to match all this. If Gul'dan would have survived and faked his death with a false skull and gain a portion of sargeras' power at the tomb of sargeras, things could play out differently.

People talk about racial leaders a lot, how about faction class leaders? I remember warlock Tier sets in wotlk which had Gul'dan's name labeled. Indication how powerful he probably was. I think he should return with a CoT event or in other ways. Need interesting and powerful Villains again.

[lupii]

-Complete political power over the Orcish Horde (Screw the Trolls, Tauren, Undead, Blood Elves, Pandaren and Contractors)
-Access to shit STRONGER than Demonic magics (Y'Shaarj)
-Reinforced fortress which he can easily defend (pfft...meet the adventurers.)
-Has already nuked down a major enemy territory (Theramore)
-Has defeated in single combat the leader of the practical army of Pandaria (Taran Zhu)
-Wields uncorrupted the power of an Old god on command (Heart of Y'shaarj)
-Unleashed his own Sha (Pride)
-Got an actual blessing from the Sha of Pride (Gorehowl is discarded in the chamber)
-Almost carried out world domination
-Stalinistic dictatorial rule (Assassinations)
-Has the Blackrock and Dragonmaw Clans under his command
-Has methods of corrupting and harming the elements themselves (Dark Shaman)
-Soldiers are expendable to the good of HIS Horde

...I would make an argument to say that he IS actually the most powerful Orc in Orcish History.

[Mage of Rage]

Broxigar is the greatest orc.
Long live the Saurfang bloodline! Oh... wait... crap.

[Scram]

I say, no. I back that with zero evidence.

[Captnmexico21]

Well, yes and no. In a WAY he had the best interest of his people in mind.

Looking at it from an Orc perspective, he wanted a blood thirsty Horde that conquered and crushed all opposition and died honorably doing it. This is, obviously, something a lot of Orcs want- but it's also what a lot of Orcs DON'T want and it's certainly not what the rest of the Horde wants.

Under Garrosh's leadership, the Orcs would have just went mostly extinct; and then the Burning Legion would have just rubbed it's cock all over a severely weakened Azeroth.

this reminded me of the movie "This is the End" when Jonah Hill gets raped by the demon.

[Flaks]

It doesn't matter which lore happens. Game Lore=Book Lore. So no, you are wrong.

According to a blue post some time in Cataclysm, you'd be wrong. Game lore >>>> book lore if they ever contradict.

[Deleted]

Brox all the way !

[Vorkreist]

Brox all the way !

Finally some truth in this thread.

Broxigar is 10 tiers above any other orc in terms of power/manliness/glory. No orc will ever mach his epicness.

[Wildmoon]

I still think Gul'dan had more power than Garrosh did. But considering he tango'd with an old god's heart and did not fully become a mindless beast I give him props.

Gul'dan's skull was a powerful artifact not because of Gul'dan's pwer alone though. It was mostly because the artifact was used many many times by many people to channel demonic magic through it. The most important thing about SoG was that it contained memory of Gul'dan which revealed the location of Tomb of Sargeras for Illidan.