Can Garrosh now officially be considered one of the most powerful Orcs in existence?

[Salandrin]

He has great political popularity and charisma, managing to gather up many, many Orcs that follow him without question, lead the Horde to immense prosperity and power (yes), through excessive force and slaughter, being successful in most instances against his enemies, being physically strong enough to overpower Taran Zhu and Thrall barehanded, and many others with ease, and finally, managing to take perfect control of Sha Energy, and using it to successfully bring chaos and destruction without really implicating himself at all, as he was perfectly fine after his defeat. All of these traits and deeds, for what they are, seem to imply Garrosh has become one of the strongest Orcs to have ever existed, and I don't think I've listed all of his notorious deeds either.

What do you think?

[JimPaladin]

I can agree that it's obvious he's one of the most powerful Orcs ever (that shouldn't even be a question), but I'll disagree on the "he brought immense prosperity and power to the Horde"

He DID bring immense power and he DID conquer and defeat lots of enemies, but he did it in very short-sighted ways. It's like saying the Nazis skillfully conquered their enemies when all they did was dig themselves deeper and deeper by being overly aggressive and foolish. Anyone with a bend for warfare and a strong army can just invade a bunch of under-prepared neighbors, but it takes a real leader to tactfully decide when, where and how you invade someone and how you maintain and control them and keep yourselves on top after that. Garrosh just went nanners and started cutting everyone down, hence why he gets violated in every one of his holes by a combined force of Alliance and Horde. He didn't even stand a chance.

[Okacz]

For the True Horde, my friend.

Garrosh really had the best of his people in mind. He did not care about the Alliance, he wanted to conquer them - good, thats what a leader should do. His fall is the fall of the future prosperity of Orcs, and the Horde in general - for those who live in Durotar peace means poverty. It's sad that nobody wanted to follow his dream, with his advisors completly rejecting the idea of prosperous Horde.

[JimPaladin]

For the True Horde, my friend.

Garrosh really had the best of his people in mind. He did not care about the Alliance, he wanted to conquer them - good, thats what a leader should do. His fall is the fall of the future prosperity of Orcs, and the Horde in general - for those who live in Durotar peace means poverty. It's sad that nobody wanted to follow his dream, with his advisors completly rejecting the idea of prosperous Horde.

Well, yes and no. In a WAY he had the best interest of his people in mind.

Looking at it from an Orc perspective, he wanted a blood thirsty Horde that conquered and crushed all opposition and died honorably doing it. This is, obviously, something a lot of Orcs want- but it's also what a lot of Orcs DON'T want and it's certainly not what the rest of the Horde wants.

Under Garrosh's leadership, the Orcs would have just went mostly extinct; and then the Burning Legion would have just rubbed it's cock all over a severely weakened Azeroth.

[Arrashi]

For the True Horde, my friend.

Garrosh really had the best of his people in mind. He did not care about the Alliance, he wanted to conquer them - good, thats what a leader should do. His fall is the fall of the future prosperity of Orcs, and the Horde in general - for those who live in Durotar peace means poverty. It's sad that nobody wanted to follow his dream, with his advisors completly rejecting the idea of prosperous Horde.

But mon, now we be havin good ol' vol'jin as oua warchief !!! In 20 years he will invent soap, so he doesnt smell like pile of turd. Have you noticed fear in Varian's eyes when vol'jin said "I speak for da horde" ? It was like "If he open his mouth for more than 3 seconds he will gas me to death where i stand !!!" Vol'jin already saved horde by making alliance unable to make any claims (unless they send him a letter).

[unholytestament]

You know, it's really staggering how many topics Salandrin has made. I mean, about half of his posts were to create new threads!

And beating dissent out of your populace isn't what I would call "bringing prosperity". Garrosh is essentially a warrior version of Gul'dan that managed to get his hands on more power.

[TheWindWalker]

He has great political popularity and charisma, managing to gather up many, many Orcs that follow him without question, lead the Horde to immense prosperity and power (yes)

This doesn't really work out in retrospec, though. He brought prosperity in exchange for constant, unending battle while having no one around to enjoy that "prosperity." He made enemies of almost every single political force on the planet and ultimately destroyed his people's empire because that "prosperity" was the same as pulling someone's chair away from a table, diving onto it and putting as much food in your mouth as possible, before the person behind you picks up their chair and bashes you over the back with it.

[Deleted]

He was REALLY powerful but we still hate him

[Wyrt]

He didn't overpower Taran Zhu or Thrall. Taran Zhu lost because he made a stupid choice. Thrall lost because Dark Shaman tortured the elements and Thrall couldn't use them.

[Zaelsino]

Well... no. Not at all. Not anymore.

He's an outcast whose entire army has been gutted. He has no political power anymore. His old god crap is destroyed. He's being tried for war crimes against the entire world. His Horde now belongs to the guy he tried to shank in the throat.

He's not a threat anymore. That's what makes his survival interesting IMO.

Sure, he was a killer warrior, but he relied on monsters and other peoples' weapons to get his results.

[JimPaladin]

Well... no. Not at all. Not anymore.

He's an outcast whose entire army has been gutted. He has no political power anymore. His old god crap is destroyed. He's being tried for war crimes against the entire world. His Horde now belongs to the guy he tried to shank in the throat.

He's not a threat anymore. That's what makes his survival interesting IMO.

I believe they mean BEFORE his defeat (And still, he's a very powerful Orc, even if he's beaten. It's not as if defeating him and putting him on trial somehow means he's not very physically strong. He's so strong, he lifts OTHER Orcs up by the neck and drops them off cliffs. That's pretty fucking hard, if you ask me.)

He didn't overpower Taran Zhu or Thrall. Taran Zhu lost because he made a stupid choice. Thrall lost because Dark Shaman tortured the elements and Thrall couldn't use them.

I also think they mean when Garrosh was beating Thrall after the Scourge attack on Orgrimmar back in TBC/Wrath. Garrosh had the upperhand in that battle, and it was made clear he was -probably- going to win if they hadn't gotten interrupted and stopped short.

As for 'overpowering Taran Zhu', I agree with that. It wasn't so much overpowering him as it was Taran Zhu just tried to do a stupid jumping fly kick thing that Garrosh easily moved away from.

[Arrashi]

Well... no. Not at all. Not anymore.

He's an outcast whose entire army has been gutted. He has no political power anymore. His old god crap is destroyed. He's being tried for war crimes against the entire world. His Horde now belongs to the guy he tried to shank in the throat.

He's not a threat anymore. That's what makes his survival interesting IMO.

Sure, he was a killer warrior, but he relied on monsters and other peoples' weapons to get his results.

Well its better to rely on monsters and weapons to get result, than Like vol'jin and anduin do, rely solely on plot armor.

[Deathgoose]

He didn't overpower Taran Zhu or Thrall. Taran Zhu lost because he made a stupid choice. Thrall lost because Dark Shaman tortured the elements and Thrall couldn't use them.

Taran Zhu lost because if he didn't, then we wouldn't have a 5.4 raid.

Thrall lost because if he didn't, then the Paragons would be the final boss fight of 5.4.

[seam]

I also think they mean when Garrosh was beating Thrall after the Scourge attack on Orgrimmar back in TBC/Wrath. Garrosh had the upperhand in that battle, and it was made clear he was -probably- going to win if they hadn't gotten interrupted and stopped short.

As for 'overpowering Taran Zhu', I agree with that. It wasn't so much overpowering him as it was Taran Zhu just tried to do a stupid jumping fly kick thing that Garrosh easily moved away from.

He was losing that fight in the comic, though the game didn't show it as well.

Thrall was WINNING, and winning easily.

Garrosh is stronger than Thrall now, but wasn't then.

[Yakshamash]

Ner'zhul laughing his ass off.

[seam]

Ner'zhul laughing his ass off.

Can he even be considered an orc anymore?

His soul was ripped out of his body, tortured until he wasn't hardly like himself anymore, and then placed in a set of armor.

[Explorer]

Well, in the means of power as an ability to defeat strongest and\or multiple foes, yes. Not Grom, or Orgrim, or Saurfang could ever stand against 25 powerful and skilled elite group of assasins - and he has both physical and magical powes to be able to. I'd say his power is approximately about the same level as Illidan's at the time of BT.
Actually, only one orc could rival him in power - Gul'Dan - I'm highly uncertain who'd win - Gul'Dan on peak of his powers or Heart-Empowered Garrosh (hulking version). Other being close in power - Ner'Zhul, while posessing Medivh's artefacts (so only temporarily), Thrall charged by the Aspects (temporarily too).

[icausewipes]

Garrosh is the single most important Orc in Warcraft history. He defeated Thrall and killed Cairne Bloodhoof in single combat. If he was not betrayed by jealous trolls and blood elves then he would still be Warchief.


FREE GARROSH!

[huth]

The only kind of strong he is is headstrong. He has no idea how to deal with the power he had and can't think from here to the weekend in terms of strategy.

Frankly, i find it more surprising he lasted for that long than him being defeated. But he is no match for Orgrim, Gul'dan or Ner'zhul.

- - - Updated - - -

Actually, only one orc could rival him in power - Gul'Dan - I'm highly uncertain who'd win - Gul'Dan on peak of his powers or Heart-Empowered Garrosh (hulking version). Other being close in power - Ner'Zhul, while posessing Medivh's artefacts (so only temporarily), Thrall charged by the Aspects (temporarily too).

Gul'dan, no doubts. Garrosh had the powers, but not the brain. And i bet you Orgrim or Saurfang would be a bigger challenge on their own powers, without having to lend those of an Old God.

[seam]

Garrosh is the single most important Orc in Warcraft history. He defeated Thrall and killed Cairne Bloodhoof in single combat. If he was not betrayed by jealous trolls and blood elves then he would still be Warchief.


FREE GARROSH!

He was losing to Cairne, and would have been killed if not for a rigged fight(Granted not of his doing)

Actually, only one orc could rival him in power - Gul'Dan - I'm highly uncertain who'd win - Gul'Dan on peak of his powers or Heart-Empowered Garrosh (hulking version). Other being close in power - Ner'Zhul, while posessing Medivh's artefacts (so only temporarily), Thrall charged by the Aspects (temporarily too).

Oh hey, forgot about Gul'Dan. It's hard to tell just how strong Gul'Dan was though, since he had to hide his motives from Doomhammer and pretend to be under his control.