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  1. #21
    Melee as a whole is weak right now, but most of the other melee have secondary roles. Warriors, paladins, druids, monks and DKs can tank. Shamans, paladins, monks and druids can heal. Shamans and druids can caster DPS. We have only one role, and that's melee DPS, and with melee being weak overall compared to range, it's not surprising that we're on the lower end of the played spectrum. Also, the class hasn't changed much since BC, it has a stale rotation and nothing particularly interesting between our specs (mages and warlocks change a lot by spec). The best class to compare us to is probably hunters as we're both stale, pure DPS roles. Only reason hunters aren't lower on the played charts is because hunters are more viable overall (stronger in PvP, easier in PvE because ranged>melee).

    Blizzard's admitted that the melee niche of being able to damage on the move is gone with all the on-the-move casting that ranged has gotten, so hopefully they'll either stop making fights so punishing for melee or they'll give us another niche. Would also be nice if they FINALLY addressed issues that Rogues have been complaining about forever.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Captainwinra View Post
    Holla party rockers,

    After seeing the recent numbers, I was curious to find out why people think rogues are the least played class?

    I hold that it is because they don't bring enough utility to groups and, therefore, are not as required for raiding.

    I would also say that Monks kind of stole their thunder, but it would appear Rogues were poorly represented in Cata as well. Why is this people?
    Because rogues always complain about their op class being weak. Makes people believe it's true and not go for them.
    Is even a lot here saying that rogues are weak both in pve and pvp right now, even with them being one of the best dps specs+topping arena just fine.
    You barely see a rogue below 1800 because it's impossible for them to be below that, no matter how bad you are, after they simplified the class.

    Of course there's still good rogues. Unlike the bad they're truly fearsome to meet.
    Everyone has so much to say
    They talk talk talk their lives away

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Terridon View Post
    Because rogues always complain about their op class being weak. Makes people believe it's true and not go for them.
    Is even a lot here saying that rogues are weak both in pve and pvp right now, even with them being one of the best dps specs+topping arena just fine.
    You barely see a rogue below 1800 because it's impossible for them to be below that, no matter how bad you are, after they simplified the class.

    Of course there's still good rogues. Unlike the bad they're truly fearsome to meet.

    Absolutely no rogues complain that we're weak. We complain that melee overall is weak compared to range, which isn't really arguable, and we complain that our class is boring and stale.

    Also, Rogues are dead last in gladiator representation, so I don't know where you're getting that statistic in PvP from. I've PvPed on a druid, hunter, rogue and DK since BC and got 4 glad titles and a rank 1. The rogue was by far the hardest to PvP on. Squishiest class by far in PvP and extremely kiteable.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Terridon View Post
    Because rogues always complain about their op class being weak. Makes people believe it's true and not go for them.
    Is even a lot here saying that rogues are weak both in pve and pvp right now, even with them being one of the best dps specs+topping arena just fine.
    You barely see a rogue below 1800 because it's impossible for them to be below that, no matter how bad you are, after they simplified the class.

    Of course there's still good rogues. Unlike the bad they're truly fearsome to meet.
    This is a misrepresentation.

    http://www.arenamate.net/archive_gra...charts_classes - the trend for people playing rogues over 2200 dropped steadily through the season.

    While they don't have it archived, the last time we did a comparison across these lines (5.3? 5.2?), rogues had a higher % representation in the upper brackets compared to overall representation compared to other classes because no one wanted to play them if they weren't really great. This does indicate that rogues are OP, it indicates that a lot of rogues stopped playing their rogues.

  5. #25
    Assassination is the most boring spec pve-wise among all classes, subtlety is unplayable and when i tried combat with 4pc i felt disgusted by how it played so now i no longer main my rogue.

    Btw if you need more reasons go roll a rogue on a vanilla server and you'll see that rogue is pratically unchanged since vanilla in terms of mechanics...
    Haste will fix it ©

  6. #26
    For me, it was because the class was so damned boring to level up! I struggled through it because he was my only inscriptionist, but 87-90 was painful as hell and I couldn't wait to drop him again.

    I levelled him originally during Cata, and he was quite fun to play back then.

  7. #27
    I think rogue has the most "old school" wibe in it, and usually the majority likes things that are new and different.

  8. #28
    Remember that wow is very much a "top 1%" type of community especially on boards like these (because typically it takes people who are actually invested into this game to go look at websites) but the vast majority of wow players are the casuals. The type of people who level up a character by some ungodly manner that it takes a pure genius to figure out how to level that slow so in today's time when it takes all of a week of leveling to go from 1-90 there are still super casual people out there that takes them a long time to level.

    That being said.

    Rogues are the hardest class to level. A rogue that pulls more than 1 mob at a time is typically a dead rogue. Our main CC ability is only usable while in stealth so if a mob spawns while you're killing stuff or you get pulled out of stealth do to a missed stealth attack or any number of reasons rogues will die.

    Rogues leveling is slow. Boring. Painful. Tedious. Until higher levels via learned abilities or gear with haste our energy regen is atrocious and is probably the worst out there aside from feral druids who tie with us. "Energy" based classes such as monks and hunters are literally spamable leveling up and you have 0 downtime of waiting for stuff to regen compared to the rogue. Once a lower level rogue blows all their energy they're pretty much screwed and have to wait slowly for it to regen up.

    Compared to other classes rogues have serious disadvantages. We have no real aoe ability. Even at max level in full epics unless we have a tank if a rogue tries to aoe tank a bunch of mobs it takes so much damage and has 0 healing to back it up. Compared to a warrior or paladin who can jump into a pack aoe everything down and come out at 100% hp it's ridiculous how bad a better geared rogue would fare in the same situation.

    Rogues also lack the ability to heal/tank to get into instances faster to speed up the leveling process and low level dungeons are miserable for a rogue. Stuff dies before you can build CP up so you lose it all and pretty much go through the instance spamming SS and keeping SnD up after the mob dies. As DPS class it's pretty shitty when the tank does 10x our damage.

    The rogue class has the oldest most out dated resource system in the game. Feral druids is the same but a druid can spec moonkin which has a new resource system (eclipse state) or tank (new with active mitigation in MoP). Mana has been changed around a lot and is to the point where it basically isn't an issue aside for healers at the start of an expact. After MSV healers were fine on the mana department though. Rage has been changed every expansion sometimes multiple times an expansion. Every thing has been updated in some way except for energy which was actually nerfed for pvp reasons (how rogues used to game the system and open right before energy ticked given them effectively 20 bonus energy on the pull). So, aside from that nerf energy/cp have stayed the same since vanilla beta and are a rather boring resource system.

    In MoP melee aren't that good. On a comparison it's generally the rule where you want to bring a ranged over a melee and a lot of the ranged classes are out dpsing rogues anyways. In a 10 man raid if you have 2 tanks, 3 healers, 4 dps with 2 ranged and 2 melee the rule of thumb is to bring a ranged class to fill the last spot. People want a raid spot. Being a melee is hard. It's hard to find a pug for anything because they all need tanks healers or ranged melee is always full.

    There's nothing enticing about the rogue. We can't shape change. We can't go around collecting rare pets like hunters. We don't have flashy spell effects like paladins. We can't tank or heal which are always the most desired roles to fill. We aren't amazing in pvp anymore and are bottom of the barrel. We have no burst so there isn't that wow factor that say a destro lock gets of critting for a million damage. Rogues have been blahed out. Our stuns are all on DRs now so we can't even stunlock anymore which was a lot of fun. Rogues sim middle of the road dps now and are out dpsed by a lot of classes especially mages.

    And the worse thing ever is that after the most painful leveling experience in the game (because 85-90 as a rogue is the hardest out there everyone who has leveled up multiple toons will agree with me) there's an even worse time once you actually hit 90 and then you're undergeared and can't really quest that well. Places like the isle of thunder daily quests will be hard as hell and don't even bother with trying to kill anything on the timeless isle. For a brand new rogue starting out they'll have absolute piss for dps and have to bandage after every pull. So now let's say a new rogue actually gets past that. Gears up in LFR and is ready to raid. Too bad no guilds out there are looking for a melee because any guild out there worth it's salt already has it's dedicated melee crew and they'll be damned if they give up their raid spots to some freshly hit 90 scrub.

    And to top it off. They cherry on the rogue sundae. Everyone hates rogues. Rogues are the red headed step child of the wow community. They got a bad rap from back in the day and it's carried with them ever since. Plus everyone has been ganked by some ass hole rogue or harassed and had no way to get them back because of stealth. Rogue's just have this huge negative stereo type about them. Ask any warrior out there what class they hate the most and 99% of them will say they absolutely despise rogues.

  9. #29
    The Patient Jassinta's Avatar
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    Based on the player charts for MoP, I think it could be that rogues were, in all honesty, absolute shit at the beginning of MSV. You could top the DPS on Stone Guardians as Combat thanks to Blade Flurry, but they were just not competitive against other classes as a solid DPS class.
    Being solid DPS, they lack the hybra options of other classes. If you play a rogue, you stay a stabby dps rogue, there's no changing.
    We've had the crappiest history of sporadic DPS values, and if I remember correctly rogues weren't high in the dps charts at the start of Cataclysm either.
    Current content we seem to be shining at the moment, but we really haven't been for a while.

    But I just remember seeing all the jokes about "How do I increase rogue dps in MoP? Roll another class" and decided I was going to stick to it, and it hasn't been that bad for me. I love the daggers and the whole concept of just casually disappearing infront of people. Stealth is my favourite thing.

    I think it's just a combination of the sporadic dps, somewhat difficult leveling because you seem to sit there for hours waiting for more energy, and their playstyle that deters people.

    "Some turn to dust or to gold, but you will remember me, for centuries."

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    Incorrect. It was NEVER warlocks. Rogues have been the least played class since around BC.
    Rogue was actually insanely popular in Vanilla and TBC, they were very strong in both PvE and PvP back then. I think rogue was one of the more popular classes back then, LK and the expansions after that is what started the decline afaik.

    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    I'd say it's the leveling process. If you're not already familiar with rogues, leveling is a chore. If you don't use heirlooms (or aren't fully geared from the last raid going into a new xpac), it's vastly and painfully slower than any other class or spec. Stealth and CC are necessary and we can't efficiently kill groups of mobs.
    Yup, I completly agree here. I had fun leveling as combat up untill cata. You required a cooldown to deal with 4 mobs at once or you'd just die... Blade flurry being changed definitly didn't help. Killing mobs as a rogue also started feeling more repetitive to me after a while since you literally follow the same routine each time. Although I guess it's actually like that with every class...

    In the end it's probably because the class has less appeal though, just look at warlocks. They have never really been in a bad spot (except vanilla/s5 maybe) and have been very unpopular for a long time aswell.

  11. #31
    Rogues have never been this bad in PvP, which I think is the main reason people loose interest in the class.

    Fine and funny in PvE though, except at nerfed ilvl content (Proving Grounds, Challenge Mode), where energy regen is terrible.

  12. #32
    The Lightbringer Ermahgerd's Avatar
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    Because they're the least appreciated class out there. Combat and assassination are in general extremely easy and boring to play, not to mention clunky at low ilvls while sublety isn't rewarding whatsoever. Backstab doing barerly ANY damage is just a fucking joke.

    Edit: Not to mention the crit chance. Rogue crit chance was nerfed so fucking hard going from wotlk to cataclysm, and from cata to mop it's not even fun anymore. Lost 30% crit chance on both ambush and backstab basically made sublety feel extremely clunky.

    The lack of changes blizz made to rogues is also pathetic. Only recently did rogues get "some" love.
    Last edited by Ermahgerd; 2013-09-17 at 12:09 PM.

  13. #33
    The Lightbringer Naxere's Avatar
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    Two words: Death Knights. I think a lot of Rogues moved to DKs once Wrath came out, and DKs offer multiple roles along with great utility in raids.

  14. #34
    Tried rogue few times but the class for me its just boring. Could not level one higher than 35 lvl.

  15. #35
    High Overlord Spylacopa's Avatar
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    I really have no idea, maybe people don't like a ninja class but prefer a charging tauren with a bad ass axe

  16. #36
    I always loved the idea of the rogue class, and I have started several of them since Vanilla, but I never took them al the way to max level. I usually filled a tank role, so I had been tied to my Warrior and Paladins since TBC. I meant to finish leveling one in WoTLK, but that darn OP Deathknight tempted me, and I just couldn't abandon my mage either. When Cata came out, I had just finished leveling my Hunter so he became my main for that expansion before I decided to take a long break. Last month I just came back to the game and decided that I would finally take the plunge and commit to finish leveling my rogue that had been sitting in her 60's in the Outlands for 4+ years. It was a blast. No pressure or guild commitments, moved all my toons to another (very live) server, and just enjoyed the content. I love my rogue and I find that the more gear I get, the better I become. I went from suckng it up around 14-15 in MSV to #2 dps on Sha in Toes last night at ilvl499. I was able to down the first 4 bosses in 2 SoO flex groups this week and look forward to adding that in the LFR rotation.

    I love stealth. I love ignoring all the trashmobs on the way to my objective. I love being an Engineer and having a whole bag of tricks. I love thinking of different ways to solve each challenge. I love assassination (now I have actually learned it).

    I love my rogue. <3
    Last edited by Vultarok; 2013-09-17 at 01:42 PM. Reason: spelling

  17. #37
    Field Marshal
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    I don't know which class is least played, but my main has been my rogue since LK. For those who say leveling was slowest on the rogue, I respectfully disagree. I leveled as Sub, and a Cheap Shot - Hemo - Rupture - Hemo - Eviscerate usually left any mob dead before I took any damage, and Blind/Kidney Shot worked well for those extra mobs if I aggroed more than intended.

    I like the gameplay of a rogue: I like using stealth and feel that the rogue has a truly distinct feel to its playstyle. I have a max level DK, druids, hunter, mage and warlock, also, with a priest and pally in the 87-ish range, so I know the playstyle of quite a few classes. My hunter was my first main, and the DK was my second. I find myself leveling alts when bored with the rogue, but the rogue is always my first choice to play.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    I think this sums it up great.


    I don't really think it's because "rogues are super weak". It's just that when you play your lowbie rogue, the game is bad at bribing you to keep doing that, compared to other classes. And the PvP arguments should maybe not be in this thread at all- I can point to how hard done by we were earlier this expansion, but how many players choose their mains and alts based on how good they could do in arena? It seems that's not going to impact overall class numbers. You could, for instance, nerf all paladins into the ground in pvp, and I bet you'd still see a suffusion of them in everywhere over forever.
    The PvP argument should definitely be included. I submit that anyone reading the PvP style of the rogue may be rightly turned off--I know I am. "You come out of stealth and stun the guy--you ambush him and kill him so fast he can do nothing!"

    This is absolutely within the design logic of rogues but it's extremely unpleasant for some of us. I don't particularly care for ambushing folks and I wish one of our specs was more about "you're mostly relying on your skill as a weapon master" than about being a mysterious assassin. Still, my complaint runs contrary to how the class has played since Vanilla. I point out a potential "turn off" more than I recommend a serious reform.

    I definitely think our difficulties self-healing and soloing elites plays into our unpopularity. It's hard not to look at warriors leaping and maneuverability and wonder why the plate wearing class has that and no the leather-wearing swashbuckling class (would definitely not include charge in this complaint, however--more heroic leap).

  19. #39
    Stood in the Fire intrinsc's Avatar
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    Rogues and Warlocks might be the least played, but ask any raid leader and they would rather take an equally geared and equally skilled warlock over a rogue any day. The tools the ranged DPS warlock bring, along with good DPS, is enough reason to make it the more desirable of the two. That's one big reason why I'm switching to range in the expansion. I'm tired of getting shunned just because I'm melee.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Demeia View Post
    The PvP argument should definitely be included. I submit that anyone reading the PvP style of the rogue may be rightly turned off--I know I am. "You come out of stealth and stun the guy--you ambush him and kill him so fast he can do nothing!"

    This is absolutely within the design logic of rogues but it's extremely unpleasant for some of us. I don't particularly care for ambushing folks and I wish one of our specs was more about "you're mostly relying on your skill as a weapon master" than about being a mysterious assassin. Still, my complaint runs contrary to how the class has played since Vanilla. I point out a potential "turn off" more than I recommend a serious reform.

    I definitely think our difficulties self-healing and soloing elites plays into our unpopularity. It's hard not to look at warriors leaping and maneuverability and wonder why the plate wearing class has that and no the leather-wearing swashbuckling class (would definitely not include charge in this complaint, however--more heroic leap).
    Then why play the class? To me, it is the most fun class in pvp. if you dont like it play something else that you like.

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