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  1. #821
    Quote Originally Posted by Xdenek View Post
    You should look up "disingenuous" in a dictionary.
    He used it appropriately.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elrandir View Post
    My starfall brings all the mobs to the yard.
    Laurellen - Druid Laurellin - Deathknight

  2. #822
    Quote Originally Posted by gamingmuscle View Post

    I can mindlessly push buttons just as well in heroic as LFR =P Nothing in WoW has really required much thought...just awareness and reaction time. So yes pretty much every raid has been as mindless as LFR =P
    to what would you attribute lower participation/completion rates of those older raids vs. LFR? anything that mindless the server should have on farm pretty quickly - and why did you need a guild to get swp on farm in 2.4.x? just pug it - this would be consistent with LFR-type difficulty.

    Obviously I am being sarcastic, but I feel I am making a valid distinction between 'farming naxx40 as current content' and running LFR.
    Authors I have enjoyed enough to mention here: JRR Tolkein, Poul Anderson,Jack Vance, Glen Cook, Brian Stableford, MAR Barker, Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle, John Steakley, Joe Abercrombie, Robert Silverberg, the norse sagas, CJ Cherryh, PG Wodehouse, Clark Ashton Smith, Alastair Reynolds, Cordwainer Smith, LE Modesitt, L. Sprague de Camp & Fletcher Pratt, Agatha Christie, Steven Erikson & Ian Esslemont, Stephen R Donaldon, and recently Jack L Chalker.

  3. #823
    Warchief Seefer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkstarG View Post
    I agree exactly with this. I have fun and I make sure the guild that I am in (being an officer) are also having fun. Nobody cares who has what and if anyone needs help.....I will do everything in my power to help. I don't only enjoy getting gear or killing raid bosses. I enjoy the casual friendly relationship our guild has. We talk, we are friendly, and we have fun. We also keep out the drama.....anyone causing drama tends to not stay very long.
    I could care less if EVERYONE gets gear, it's the people too lazy or lack the intelligence to be GOOD at the game and demand everything be dumbed down to the point where my dog could do everything.
    "Of all the animals, man is the only one that is cruel. He is the only one who inflicts pain for the pleasure of doing it." - Mark Twain

  4. #824
    Quote Originally Posted by Deficineiron View Post
    to what would you attribute lower participation/completion rates of those older raids vs. LFR? anything that mindless the server should have on farm pretty quickly - and why did you need a guild to get swp on farm in 2.4.x? just pug it - this would be consistent with LFR-type difficulty.
    Used to be SOMEONE had to put in more effort to put the raid together (I've done it, and it's not much fun frankly). That is no longer needed, thus more people raid in LFR then in older raids when they where current.
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.

    -Kujako-

  5. #825
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kujako View Post
    Used to be SOMEONE had to put in more effort to put the raid together (I've done it, and it's not much fun frankly). That is no longer needed, thus more people raid in LFR then in older raids when they where current.
    Actually a lot of guilds still have attendance issues and it has gotten worse since LFR with people having the mindset of "Well, I can just see it in LFR then unsub til next raid tier" (and yes I have had quite a few in my guild do that)
    "Of all the animals, man is the only one that is cruel. He is the only one who inflicts pain for the pleasure of doing it." - Mark Twain

  6. #826
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Nye the Spy View Post
    Because the cloak is brain dead simple to get

    and everyone could also get it first day to 5.4

    in short you don't have to be good to get it

    I wont be getting mine for a while because I can't be bothered to do the pvp part of the quest
    alright. so you argue that it's simple to get but that you won't get it because the pvp part is too hard for you to bother with. Do you not see the hypocrisy of this statement?

  7. #827
    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    Actually a lot of guilds still have attendance issues.
    Yea, its kind of a PITA to keep a raid together. Flex raids look promising for this. No more sitting around looking for people to fill in spots in a 25 man raid.

    Personally, I really dislike LFR. I'm a tank (and have been since the game was released many moons ago). I can not stand the expectation that I know the fight mechanics perfectly the first time I step into the instance. The amount of crying because I didn't sit through hours of videos and research before I dare to queue is saddening.
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.

    -Kujako-

  8. #828
    It seems a bit pointless if everybody has it. That might seem silly, but that's just how legendaries are. They're meant to stick out like a sore thumb, as something exceptionally powerful; yet it's hardly exceptional when it's pretty much standard for the slot, even if it does give a large boost to performance once you get it. I understand the desire to reward everyone and get everyone involved, but giving the average player an ilvl 608 cloak with a very powerful proc had problems that came with the novelty.

    As someone who has the cloak, it seems to feel more like a penalty for those that don't have it than a boon for those that do. On top of that, having to get it by grinding LFR for weeks after I'd gotten all of the actual gear that I wanted left a really bad taste in my mouth. Particularly Throne of Thunder. Fuck those runestones, seriously. The trials were cool but the raid grinds were too long and just generally sucked. If they wanted a time gate, they should have just had time-gated weekly steps, like the current Hourglass quest does, and put trials (like the Celestial one) in each of those steps.

    I generally let long material grinds in raids slide because you're not there solely for the materials. You're progressing through the raid and, unless you've cleared absolutely everything, getting needed upgrades. As someone that only did LFR, going back into raids JUST for the legendary quest was painful, yet felt like an obligation; if gear is a motivator, then it's impossible to ignore an obtainable legendary item.

    TLDR; I'm not convinced that giving everyone a legendary is terribly in-line with what generally powerful items are meant to accomplish and can come across as more of a penalty for those that miss out for whatever reason, and I have issues with the grind associated with it.
    Last edited by Eats Compost; 2013-09-20 at 05:31 PM.

  9. #829
    Quote Originally Posted by Ijoemomma View Post
    alright. so you argue that it's simple to get but that you won't get it because the pvp part is too hard for you to bother with. Do you not see the hypocrisy of this statement?
    The PvP part isn't "hard", it's just more tedious for some of us then the cloak is worth.
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.

    -Kujako-

  10. #830
    Quote Originally Posted by Kujako View Post
    Used to be SOMEONE had to put in more effort to put the raid together (I've done it, and it's not much fun frankly). That is no longer needed, thus more people raid in LFR then in older raids when they where current.
    OK this is getting absurd, if that is all it was folks would have formed a party in .2 or /lfg to pug naxx40/bt/swp as current content.

    The elephant in the living room seems to be difficulty - no one wants to come out and say naxx40 was harder than LFR. I know, its sacrilege that anything have been hard, but sources have said for years that naxx 40 as current content had a number of non-trivial fights, ditto swp and bt (to say nothing of bt attunements).
    Authors I have enjoyed enough to mention here: JRR Tolkein, Poul Anderson,Jack Vance, Glen Cook, Brian Stableford, MAR Barker, Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle, John Steakley, Joe Abercrombie, Robert Silverberg, the norse sagas, CJ Cherryh, PG Wodehouse, Clark Ashton Smith, Alastair Reynolds, Cordwainer Smith, LE Modesitt, L. Sprague de Camp & Fletcher Pratt, Agatha Christie, Steven Erikson & Ian Esslemont, Stephen R Donaldon, and recently Jack L Chalker.

  11. #831
    Warchief Seefer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kujako View Post
    Yea, its kind of a PITA to keep a raid together. Flex raids look promising for this. No more sitting around looking for people to fill in spots in a 25 man raid.

    Personally, I really dislike LFR. I'm a tank (and have been since the game was released many moons ago). I can not stand the expectation that I know the fight mechanics perfectly the first time I step into the instance. The amount of crying because I didn't sit through hours of videos and research before I dare to queue is saddening.
    Meh, I rarely if ever watch videos, waste of time I never retain the knowledge I just go in and do it and learn from my mistakes.
    "Of all the animals, man is the only one that is cruel. He is the only one who inflicts pain for the pleasure of doing it." - Mark Twain

  12. #832
    Quote Originally Posted by Ijoemomma View Post
    alright. so you argue that it's simple to get but that you won't get it because the pvp part is too hard for you to bother with. Do you not see the hypocrisy of this statement?
    5th time I've responded to someone about what I said

    Your implying I said it's hard. It's not hard at all. I just refuse to pvp in this game. 1750 arena rating arms warrior every season prior to this one is at 2200 now. That's fucked up. Reckful isn't playing his rogue this season at all. He's playing a arms warrior. Pvp in this game is just fucked. Flavors of the month
    Blizzard White Knighting is not allowed

  13. #833
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkstarG View Post
    I agree exactly with this. I have fun and I make sure the guild that I am in (being an officer) are also having fun. Nobody cares who has what and if anyone needs help.....I will do everything in my power to help. I don't only enjoy getting gear or killing raid bosses. I enjoy the casual friendly relationship our guild has. We talk, we are friendly, and we have fun. We also keep out the drama.....anyone causing drama tends to not stay very long.
    This is all well and good in la la fluffy pillow pussy land. But it's called competition, and games thrive off of it. It's not about feeling superior, it's about setting yourself apart from others. And about making your character unique. Something the new breed of WoW players can't seem to comprehend. Idc that you see or get content, what I care about is the content being given out for free, because it then makes that content pretty meaningless. Would you want to climb Everest if anyone could do it and it wasn't considered a great feat?

  14. #834
    Quote Originally Posted by Deficineiron View Post
    OK this is getting absurd, if that is all it was folks would have formed a party in .2 or /lfg to pug naxx40/bt/swp as current content.
    a) people did.
    b) it still took someone to organize the pug and make sure there was a balance of dps, tanks & healers. very difference then just clicking a button and letting the game do it for you.
    c) the difficulty if LFR is scaled down, as I'm sure you know (note that I have not argued that LFR is as difficult as classic raid content).

    Thus, more people raid LFR then did "classic" content.
    Last edited by Kujako; 2013-09-20 at 05:35 PM.
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.

    -Kujako-

  15. #835
    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    Meh, I rarely if ever watch videos, waste of time I never retain the knowledge I just go in and do it and learn from my mistakes.
    Reading the encounter description in the online tool is probably good enough.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    I hate these casual Fridays ruining it for real Fridays.

  16. #836
    Quote Originally Posted by Deficineiron View Post
    to what would you attribute lower participation/completion rates of those older raids vs. LFR? anything that mindless the server should have on farm pretty quickly - and why did you need a guild to get swp on farm in 2.4.x? just pug it - this would be consistent with LFR-type difficulty.

    Obviously I am being sarcastic, but I feel I am making a valid distinction between 'farming naxx40' and running LFR.
    You see when you discuss how easy something is, that is an entirely subjective form of measurement. I gave you my opinion on it. I found it not to be very hard. Doesn't mean I didn't wipe. Cause there's the whole practicing of stuff to get into your grove thing and train the body to react instead of having to think about the ability that is about to/currently affecting you. Learning not to drink X glasses of wine when you have duty ABC to perform etc...LOL

    Would I then say everyone found it easy...no. I have seen the stats. Lots more failed then succeeded.

    Reason why there was less participation? My guesses would be: Age of the game...it was still fairly young then...growing rapidly...meaning a lot of non max level people. Blizzard was still working on tuning, class mechanics still were broken (better than vanilla tho). The silliness over attunements...forcing guilds to either poach or attune new people.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elrandir View Post
    My starfall brings all the mobs to the yard.
    Laurellen - Druid Laurellin - Deathknight

  17. #837
    I think the problem with this legendary is that while it does take a lot of time and effort to get it, it doesn't take a lot of skill.

  18. #838
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon138 View Post
    This is all well and good in la la fluffy pillow pussy land. But it's called competition, and games thrive off of it.
    That's why the harder core, more competitive MMOs did better than WoW, right? Like, make everyone compete over world bosses, none of this instanced crap! Or full free for all PvP with the ability to loot your kills! Players obviously totally love all that, given how those games have hundreds of millions of subscribers now.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    I hate these casual Fridays ruining it for real Fridays.

  19. #839
    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    Actually a lot of guilds still have attendance issues and it has gotten worse since LFR with people having the mindset of "Well, I can just see it in LFR then unsub til next raid tier" (and yes I have had quite a few in my guild do that)
    That is a people issue. Some do not like to work...best try and find those that do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elrandir View Post
    My starfall brings all the mobs to the yard.
    Laurellen - Druid Laurellin - Deathknight

  20. #840
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorewalker View Post
    I think the problem with this legendary is that while it does take a lot of time and effort to get it, it doesn't take a lot of skill.
    Nothing in this game takes much skill (yet I know some people manage to be bad at it, that's not the point). Things take time and effort, you can argue this legendary item takes less of these then past ones, but the question is "so what?". I didn't get past legendary items and I'm unlikely to get this one. Others having them does not detract from my enjoyment of the game.
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.

    -Kujako-

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