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  1. #1001
    Quote Originally Posted by BEYR View Post
    An entire expansion worth of grinding doesn't show any dedication to the cause? Other legendaries were mostly drops (either the item itself or the needed components) that required nothing more than looting the item. It was RNG. In most cases, yes the GM had control of who it went to (or ninja'd it) but that doesn't make any part of obtaining it difficult. Hell, I set foot in MC twice while it was current, neither time as part of a guild and almost got the left binding in a roll because nobody needed it. I think you officially have rose-tinted snowflakes falling in your eyes.
    It shows dedication for sure but far from doing a regular raids and dealing wit icky-poopy-meanie schedules.
    You showed a modicum of dedication.

    And again, it's like you guys have amnesia or something but you keep forgetting you still had to raid normally for those same inane boss farming quests.

    I didn't play WoW back in Vanilla or TBC but it doesn't take much brain power to see how Legendaries functioned what with DKP, 40 man raids, tiered raiding system and all that entails.
    Today you don't compete for resources and raiding is a joke with LFR.

    Really I don't know what this has to do with nostalgia or the "snowflake" insult but clearly you don't know when those terms are applicable. Keep tunneling.

  2. #1002
    High Overlord Jadhak's Avatar
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    Use of the term welfare implies that there are others putting in time and effort to help someone else have it. This was the case for the older legendary's. Now the sole responsibility is on the person who wants it so it's not really welfare, is it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by HeedmySpeed View Post
    It shows dedication for sure but far from doing a regular raids and dealing wit icky-poopy-meanie schedules.
    You showed a modicum of dedication.
    Or, on the flip-side, it shows great greediness as you are forcing other people to help you get an item only you can use. Now, its down to personal responsibility (across a whole xpac and not just one patch cycle) to put the time in to do it.

  3. #1003
    Quote Originally Posted by Jadhak View Post
    Use of the term welfare implies that there are others putting in time and effort to help someone else have it. This was the case for the older legendary's. Now the sole responsibility is on the person who wants it so it's not really welfare, is it?

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    Or, on the flip-side, it shows great greediness as you are forcing other people to help you get an item only you can use. Now, its down to personal responsibility (across a whole xpac and not just one patch cycle) to put the time in to do it.
    IT always required personal dedication.

    Go read how to get warglaives the first day they were available that I posted in this thread. You had to do personal work all the way through to be able to get foot in BT. It took more "work" to get into BT day 1 than it did to get this silly welfare cloak.

  4. #1004
    High Overlord Jadhak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by purebalance View Post
    IT always required personal dedication.

    Go read how to get warglaives the first day they were available that I posted in this thread. You had to do personal work all the way through to be able to get foot in BT. It took more "work" to get into BT day 1 than it did to get this silly welfare cloak.
    That's not my argument - I'm just pointing out that the use of the word 'welfare' is incorrect.

  5. #1005
    Also to those claiming that past legendaries were popularity contests, you were in a horrible guild then I'm sorry.

    Every legendary to date in guilds I was in was either A) DKP or B) judging by dps, survival in raids, and attendance. There was never a question as to whether the right person was chosen for them in situations I've been in. I was the first choice hands down when we started on DW even though I had just blown my wad of dkp. Not a single person questioned it. I showed up to every raid. I took personal accountability for my survival. I always helped out with fixing something we were messing up on even though I was not an O. I'm sorry the rest of you were in terrible guilds who awarded the wrong person a legendary. Hell officers and GMs often DO deserve they for the on the side work they do. It might not be the best for the guild if they aren't the top dps, but they do a lot more than peon joe in the raid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadhak View Post
    That's not my argument - I'm just pointing out that the use of the word 'welfare' is incorrect.
    It's very correct. Everyone can get it and you can get it with minimal work compared to past legendaries. That part has already been laid out. Also already proven that past legendaries required more work.

    The only other thing left to prove is the silly "you can get carried" to older ones, but let's be frank and say that is a lie since your guild can tell if they were carrying you and wouldn't award you one.

    This legendary is in fact welfare.

  6. #1006
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    Quote Originally Posted by purebalance View Post
    IT always required personal dedication.

    Go read how to get warglaives the first day they were available that I posted in this thread. You had to do personal work all the way through to be able to get foot in BT. It took more "work" to get into BT day 1 than it did to get this silly welfare cloak.
    No, your guild had to work all the way through to be able to kill Illidan.

    And is "getting a cloak on the first day" such a problem?

  7. #1007
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    No, your guild had to work all the way through to be able to kill Illidan.

    And is "getting a cloak on the first day" such a problem?
    To be able to get into BT the player needed to have done about 50ish or more max level group quests that were semi hard even with a group. Don't kid yourself thinking that in BC your guild did all the work

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    Let's lay out the current legendary and keep in mind you had rewards all along the way.

    First series had NO extra work that you weren't already doing: Getting honored with wrathion would have happened if you were working on your other factions and all of the sigils etc just dropped by raiding which you were doing. So Sha touched gems were freebies. 0 work. Just pick up the quests and do what you would have done.

    Second series: only "extra work" was win 2 battlegrounds and kill an elite. Still minimal work. You get an extra weapon socket for that.

    Third series: only extra work was to help wrathion at the forge. anything else you were already doing. You get a meta gem for this.

    Fourth series: Celestial challenge. You get an ilvl 600 cloak for this.

    Final series: Collect some timeless coins which you might or might not already be doing but hey we'll say you weren't.

    Soooo we have win 2 battlegrounds, kill an elite, help wrathion at the forge, complete celestial challenge, and get some timeless coins and that gets you a sha touched gem, a prismatic socket for a weapon, a meta gem, an ilvl 600 cloak, and then ultimately your legendary cloak.

    Yeah no this definitely wasn't a welfare epic..... yes it most certainly is. At least the rogue daggers had you go out for some challenging fights. At least DW changed things for the raids and gave an extra boss and a difficult scenario to solo. At least Shadowmourne challenged your raid when you were on the part with the wing bosses and even the part to get the hammer was harder than most of what I listed. At least Valanyr required you to do heroic mode yogg saron. At least Thoridol was in what is considered the hardest wow raid ever. At least getting glaives when they came out required a lot of personal work OUTSIDE of raiding.

  8. #1008
    Quote Originally Posted by Jadhak View Post
    Or, on the flip-side, it shows great greediness as you are forcing other people to help you get an item only you can use. Now, its down to personal responsibility (across a whole xpac and not just one patch cycle) to put the time in to do it.
    Except its not "force" because it's in the guild's best interest to obtain the Legendary for progression.

    Personal responsibility is nice but it undermines the 'multiplayer' portion of the game. So it's good to have once in a while but never fully.
    And now that it's all on personal responsibility you make every player feel obligated to work for the Legendary as it's so easy to obtain that it will hinder progression if you don't.

    So really it's the same problem as before by making players "forced to get you an item."
    You'll still making everyone put in work.

  9. #1009
    A miracle happened! I won the required battle grounds. The mines where a PitA due to the alliance refusing to even try for more then one cart at a time. But the temple was rather fun. Turns out that when I'm in 535 PvE gear and use bear form I can hold onto an orb for the entire match.

    Next part will take me many months however since I don't do LFR.
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  10. #1010
    to get the legendary it takes months and months to achieve. nothing wrong with it at all imo.

  11. #1011
    Quote Originally Posted by purebalance View Post
    Let's lay out the current legendary and keep in mind you had rewards all along the way.
    I didn't. Never got a sha-touched weapon due to the miracle of RNG. So I have gems and such that I can do nothing with but throw them away. Wouldn't have mattered of course since by the time I was able to get the weapon upgrades I had moved past the content they where for and now have weapon from the new raid. (shrug)
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.

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  12. #1012
    Honestly don't see the butthurt about it, Legendaries have never been super hard to acquire in the past, this one is no different. I refuse to believe that doing all those horrendous LFRs week in week out for your sigils, secrets and runestones is less irritating than having to farm firelands for your staff, dragon soul for your dagger, or alternatively, the "hard" to get legendaries, as in, jump in on illidan and receive it right away.

    Drop chance =/= difficulty, or effort, just because you had to clear it then doesn't automatically make it harder. On top of that, after 6 years of playing enhancement, at least I finally get the option to get a legendary after clearing every instance + farming it for 3-9 months a piece since Black Temple, instead of having to stand by while all the other random people get theirs and quit; because frankly I was getting sick of it never becoming my turn, so I don't care if everyone else gets a turn at the same time as long as I get a piece of the pie.
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  13. #1013
    Bloodsail Admiral Teebone's Avatar
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    This legendary was soo easy they may as well have handed it out in 5.0. I mean, look at the REAL legendarys that took such great effort like the Warglaives and Thori'Dal and actually needed a raid group to get unlike this one that could be solo'd by a blind midget with ADD.

    See what I did there? Next person to call it Welfare gets a shovel upside the head. After you dig your own hole

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    Quote Originally Posted by wordup View Post
    Honestly don't see the butthurt about it, Legendaries have never been super hard to acquire in the past, this one is no different. I refuse to believe that doing all those horrendous LFRs week in week out for your sigils, secrets and runestones is less irritating than having to farm firelands for your staff, dragon soul for your dagger, or alternatively, the "hard" to get legendaries, as in, jump in on illidan and receive it right away.

    Drop chance =/= difficulty, or effort, just because you had to clear it then doesn't automatically make it harder. On top of that, after 6 years of playing enhancement, at least I finally get the option to get a legendary after clearing every instance + farming it for 3-9 months a piece since Black Temple, instead of having to stand by while all the other random people get theirs and quit; because frankly I was getting sick of it never becoming my turn, so I don't care if everyone else gets a turn at the same time as long as I get a piece of the pie.

    Amen, brother. Amen.

  14. #1014
    I couldn't get one. you need to beat a world boss to get one. my server is dead as hell. Good luck getting that kill.

  15. #1015
    While getting it isn't particularity hard, it does take a bit of time. And it's not like other legendaries were *that* hard to get, as most of them were based on drop rate luck from content your guild is farming anyway, or in the case of BC, the item itself dropping.

    To be honest my only issue is that I think that a legendary cape is kind of lame. If they wanted a non-weapon, why not a legendary helm or something? Personal preference I guess, but a cape is sort of lame imo.

  16. #1016
    They should have produced full legendary sets so I could afk my way to really decent gear on all my alts.

  17. #1017
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    Quote Originally Posted by purebalance View Post
    Yeah no this definitely wasn't a welfare epic..... yes it most certainly is. At least the rogue daggers had you go out for some challenging fights. At least DW changed things for the raids and gave an extra boss and a difficult scenario to solo. At least Shadowmourne challenged your raid when you were on the part with the wing bosses and even the part to get the hammer was harder than most of what I listed. At least Valanyr required you to do heroic mode yogg saron. At least Thoridol was in what is considered the hardest wow raid ever. At least getting glaives when they came out required a lot of personal work OUTSIDE of raiding.
    To someone doing organized normal/heroic raiding it is indeed a welfare epic for all the reasons you gave.

    For someone who does only LFR, there is considerably more inconvenience/random stuff to do/even some difficulty.

    The Celestial DPS quest was very difficult in LFR gear early on.

    So, yes, just like RNG epics are "welfare epics" to raiders, the cloak is indeed a "welfare epic" to raiders, who basically just have to check their mailbox to see if it's arrived. However, to people who never touch normal, it is in fact a legitimately earned "legendary."

  18. #1018
    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    To someone doing organized normal/heroic raiding it is indeed a welfare epic for all the reasons you gave.

    For someone who does only LFR, there is considerably more inconvenience/random stuff to do/even some difficulty.

    The Celestial DPS quest was very difficult in LFR gear early on.

    So, yes, just like RNG epics are "welfare epics" to raiders, the cloak is indeed a "welfare epic" to raiders, who basically just have to check their mailbox to see if it's arrived. However, to people who never touch normal, it is in fact a legitimately earned "legendary."
    Honestly, I disagree on it being any different. Every legendary for people doing heroic or even normal raiding has just been either a bottleneck to inhibit raiding due to RNG drops, or been a free added bonus to killing a boss you're farming. They're just there. People seem to attribute a magical quality to them that they're super hard, mostly because they never put in the modicum of effort it takes (or more likely because it's not for their class) even despite how much easier they have become for years now.

    The only reason people are hating them so much now is because they've put them on such a huge pedestal that actually acquiring one has ruined the magic they've built up in their minds of the legendaries they've never received, despite how well designed it has been and how good they are, and even moreso, how for ONCE the legendaries are spread out, balanced and fair; let alone based on consistent playtime instead of RNG.

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    Quote Originally Posted by purebalance View Post
    To be able to get into BT the player needed to have done about 50ish or more max level group quests that were semi hard even with a group. Don't kid yourself thinking that in BC your guild did all the work
    NO.

    You had to be attuned (which could be skipped with a vial from KT that existed at the time), alongside the Kara/Mag/SSC/TK attunements. 50 quests? Not even close. Time invested for attunements outside of raids in TBC pales in comparison to time spent farming sigils/secrets/runestones even in LFR, and they weren't any more difficult than LFR, because guess what? It's just as easy to get idiots in LFR as it was to get idiots doing heroic dungeon attunement quests in TBC.

    Take off the glasses please.
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  19. #1019
    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    However, to people who never touch normal, it is in fact a legitimately earned "legendary."
    For the one scenario that still was really easy even in mediocre to bad gear ? I don't know...
    Quote Originally Posted by wordup View Post
    The only reason people are hating them so much now is because they've put them on such a huge pedestal that actually acquiring one has ruined the magic they've built up in their minds of the legendaries they've never received, despite how well designed it has been and how good they are, and even moreso, how for ONCE the legendaries are spread out, balanced and fair; let alone based on consistent playtime instead of RNG.
    Spoken like somebody who really never got one.

  20. #1020
    Quote Originally Posted by wordup View Post
    Honestly don't see the butthurt about it, Legendaries have never been super hard to acquire in the past, this one is no different.
    well hard to argue with that. mr atiesh/glaives/swp bow, you are now put in your historically revised place.

    Seriously, I don't see how someone compares even being in BT as current content as easy/comparable to this cloak's requirements. just having to clear vashj and kael were non-trivial hurdles. I am strongly tempted to believe that folks who trivialize progression raiding through t5 to t6 either were carried by geared guilds or didn't actually get into bt pre-2.3.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wordup View Post
    Time invested for attunements outside of raids in TBC pales in comparison to time spent farming sigils/secrets/runestones even in LFR, and they weren't any more difficult than LFR, because guess what?
    what about time invested for progression raiding to actually get attuned to be able to get into bt? does this count or is it an inconvenient statistic (or was everyone who ever got attuned carried, a prominent theme here now).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raintola View Post
    You could get carried to them in any other expansion, so......
    yep, that must be it, if you got a legendary in classic or bc, you were carried.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amsden View Post
    Blizz doesn't get to say what is and is not an apple, however they do have that authority when it comes to the items in their game. All they are is the tier above epic, nothing more. Some of you people put way to much weight in the word "legendary".
    well maybe prior stated blizzard definitions have something to do with this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    Yeah, essentially, the fact that this thing is obtainable via LFR is what tarnished it I think for most. When the guys that would typically always wipe your raid and couldn't cut it on the roster end up getting legendaries, you know something in the game is way way off lol. Personally for me, I got one of the wind bindings the other day in MC, it felt like a bigger accomplishment lol.
    that ain't something being 'way off' in the game, its the game getting more 'accessible.' psychologically for players who worry about gear, (most I assume at some level or other), purple has been so devalued in rarity as to be trivial, so they need to start making orange more accessible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thatwsntmilk View Post
    Example: Val'anyr: only few per guild/server could get it because it took a certain amount of time/raids to get it => harder to obtain for me because I need to have proven that I am worth it to my guild.
    fortunately a prior poster already noted that you were being carried, not earning it.

    in all seriousness I detailed the 'carried' thing as a parody of this thread, but there are folks who seriously look at old legendaries that way.
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