1. #1021
    Scarab Lord Mokoshne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    getting a coffee
    Posts
    4,483
    Quote Originally Posted by Deficineiron View Post
    I am strongly tempted to believe that folks who trivialize progression raiding through t5 to t6 either were carried by geared guilds or didn't actually get into bt pre-2.3.
    Everything became super easy once they did that 30% nerf across the board. I think you'll find a lot of the TBC Kiddies who think they were awesome progression raiders didn't really tackle the real content.
    My weekly podcast can be downloaded here this week we discuss Bill Cosby

  2. #1022
    Quote Originally Posted by Mokoshne View Post
    Everything became super easy once they did that 30% nerf across the board. I think you'll find a lot of the TBC Kiddies who think they were awesome progression raiders didn't really tackle the real content.
    i remember guilds progressing through t5 and they had a damned schedule and took weeks and weeks on each raid. i cannot see how someone who actually participated in raid progression would compare it equivalently to this cloak. hell even early mag had some click mechanics/debuffs that took some level of coordination I cannot imagine ever working its way into lfr. and this says nothing about atiesh.
    Authors I have enjoyed enough to mention here: JRR Tolkein, Poul Anderson,Jack Vance, Glen Cook, Brian Stableford, MAR Barker, Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle, John Steakley, Joe Abercrombie, Robert Silverberg, the norse sagas, CJ Cherryh, PG Wodehouse, Clark Ashton Smith, Alastair Reynolds, Cordwainer Smith, LE Modesitt, L. Sprague de Camp & Fletcher Pratt, Agatha Christie, Steven Erikson & Ian Esslemont, Stephen R Donaldon, and recently Jack L Chalker.

  3. #1023
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon138 View Post
    Tell us again about how your guild progressed all the way up to Black Temple, downed Illidan, and gave you the Glaive when it dropped.
    Exactly.

    To get a legendary in MoP is just going through the motions.
    Back in TBC. One did not just downed Illidan. Back in the day world first kills happened few months after patch release.
    Also it wasnt just "giving" a legendary item, it was group effort where the legendary recipent contributed as well.

  4. #1024
    There should only ever be one copy of a legendary per xpac, that would truly make the lucky recipient and the item deserving of the term legendary.

  5. #1025
    Quote Originally Posted by Vellerix View Post
    People like to overly simplify things. What they really mean is, "Legendary that more people have than just me and 2 other guys on the server".

    No doubt they are the same people who thought having a random 1% drop chance on legendaries during BT was an amazing model to use and showed skill and dedication.
    Guilds could have killed Illidan over and over again and never get the legendary, meanwhile another guild could have been incredibly lucky and gotten it on the first attempt, then there's deciding who to give it to. They were rare yes, but they weren't a show of how much dedication you'd put into getting them.
    And no doubt those people were right. A guaranteed earn for a feat is not as impressing as a non-guaranteed earn for a feat. You could say the old system rewarded the lucky but this new system does so too, instead it just micro managed.

  6. #1026
    Epic! fengosa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Canada, Eh
    Posts
    1,522
    Not sure how the proc from your cape is any different from the proc off of madness weapons in DS which were far easier to get in all honesty. The only difference is the color of the item /shrug

  7. #1027
    Quote Originally Posted by fengosa View Post
    Not sure how the proc from your cape is any different from the proc off of madness weapons in DS which were far easier to get in all honesty. The only difference is the color of the item /shrug
    Yeah. Because Legendaries are defined by whether or not the item has a proc.

  8. #1028
    Quote Originally Posted by Hogmanlolz View Post
    Does that term bother you at all? I mean after all the work you put in. It took some people almost an entire year to achieve that final cloak. I took me 6 months and someone called it a welfare legendary. How could they. I'm a little fired up about that term. Never have I worked hard for something in a video game before. Does it bother you when its referred to as welfare?
    why do you care what others say? people think to much of that in this game, anyone abuses you for your cloak just give em ye olde 2 finger salute :P

    And no I wouldnt say its easy to get, my character is pretty well geared but ive barely got any of the way into the wrathion quests.....Im still collecting sigils of wisdom and power due to them NEVER DROPPING! for me, I havnt even looked at what I gotta do after that

  9. #1029
    Dreadlord The Penguin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    I'm tall, and thin, with a bright red head-- Wait no I'm not. Kek.
    Posts
    990
    Quote Originally Posted by thatcrazypenguin View Post
    why do you care what others say? people think to much of that in this game, anyone abuses you for your cloak just give em ye olde 2 finger salute :P

    And no I wouldnt say its easy to get, my character is pretty well geared but ive barely got any of the way into the wrathion quests.....Im still collecting sigils of wisdom and power due to them NEVER DROPPING! for me, I havnt even looked at what I gotta do after that
    My fine feathered friend has it exactly right.

  10. #1030
    Scarab Lord Mokoshne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    getting a coffee
    Posts
    4,483
    Treat those people who give you poop about your "welfare" cloak just like you would any idiot in LFR / LFD... ignore and dont give them a second thought.
    My weekly podcast can be downloaded here this week we discuss Bill Cosby

  11. #1031
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    13,072
    Quote Originally Posted by purebalance View Post
    Soooo we have win 2 battlegrounds, kill an elite, help wrathion at the forge, complete celestial challenge, and get some timeless coins and that gets you a sha touched gem, a prismatic socket for a weapon, a meta gem, an ilvl 600 cloak, and then ultimately your legendary cloak.

    Yeah no this definitely wasn't a welfare epic..... yes it most certainly is. At least the rogue daggers had you go out for some challenging fights. At least DW changed things for the raids and gave an extra boss and a difficult scenario to solo. At least Shadowmourne challenged your raid when you were on the part with the wing bosses and even the part to get the hammer was harder than most of what I listed. At least Valanyr required you to do heroic mode yogg saron. At least Thoridol was in what is considered the hardest wow raid ever. At least getting glaives when they came out required a lot of personal work OUTSIDE of raiding.
    And now lay out the extra work you needed to do for the Warglaives?
    Aah yeah, nothing! You just had to raid and you were doing that anyway.
    Shadowmourne hardly challenged anyone, the quests are so freaking easy.

  12. #1032
    Quote Originally Posted by Deficineiron View Post
    well hard to argue with that. mr atiesh/glaives/swp bow, you are now put in your historically revised place.

    Seriously, I don't see how someone compares even being in BT as current content as easy/comparable to this cloak's requirements. just having to clear vashj and kael were non-trivial hurdles. I am strongly tempted to believe that folks who trivialize progression raiding through t5 to t6 either were carried by geared guilds or didn't actually get into bt pre-2.3.
    You're more than welcome to check the dates on my achievements for TBC, or any other expansion for that matter. Either I raided an ungodly amount on day one of achievements and miraculously went from nothing to full clear, or I had actually cleared everything before it was implemented (spoilers, it's the latter).
    Enhancement Shaman | Feral Druid | Windwalker Monk

    “All things are subject to interpretation, whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.”

  13. #1033
    Quote Originally Posted by Deficineiron View Post
    well hard to argue with that. mr atiesh/glaives/swp bow, you are now put in your historically revised place.

    Seriously, I don't see how someone compares even being in BT as current content as easy/comparable to this cloak's requirements. just having to clear vashj and kael were non-trivial hurdles. I am strongly tempted to believe that folks who trivialize progression raiding through t5 to t6 either were carried by geared guilds or didn't actually get into bt pre-2.3.
    people seriusly tend to forget how big jump in skills raiders got over the years - in TBC most people were still learning stuff if BT was releaset today with the ptr research with all the addons with how all the timers for everything can estimate stuff to 0.1 sec with how classes got brought up to par and most importantly with what current hc raiders are capable of then there would be ton more people progressing through it and ton more people runing around with glavies glavies

  14. #1034
    The Insane Bakis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    16,199
    Quote Originally Posted by Tzalix View Post
    An item with it's name in orange.

    That is the one and only definition of a legendary item in WoW. Orange = Legendary. Legendary = Orange. Period.

    This cloak is legendary. Because it's name is in orange. End of discussion.
    The color of the item is legendary but that is where it stops so the bolded part is flawed.
    Legendary implies it is rare like they have been previously in WoW.
    So to me it is not legendary other then the color code when mouseovering the item.

    Generally there are very few of these items on any given server.
    Second sentence on WoWwiki about Legendary.

    Point is, historically speaking legendary has little to do with the color code but all to do with it being rare and powerful.
    See where your reasoning is flawed?
    Last edited by Bakis; 2013-09-22 at 12:06 PM.
    Russia isn't afraid of US dude. That's why they are sending their bombers like 60km out of your shores. Infact they give 0 fucks. They know you wont dare to touch them.

  15. #1035
    Quote Originally Posted by wordup View Post
    You're more than welcome to check the dates on my achievements for TBC
    Achievements weren't implemented until Wrath. BC achievements were retroactively and imperfectly filled in at patch 3.0 (I think).
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    I hate these casual Fridays ruining it for real Fridays.

  16. #1036
    @Kangodo: Yes. You had to Raid BT when it was actually Content. Which means - When Kael'thas hadn't been killed once. Yes it's not much. You just had to raid to get the Glaives. But did everyone kill Illidan when he was actually content? Often enough to get both Glaives, since the drop rate was and is low enough to make it work? No. Not everyone could. You had to rely on your group. You had to progress all the way up to Illidan, kill his sorry ass and then - grind. I don't think the Cloak was a bad Idea tbh. But it is welfare, since everyone with A LITTLE luck and time could get it. Even through LFR. People are mad or call it welfare just because of that. Because you don't have to do at least somewhat challenging raid content to get to it. It doesn't matter if it's a drop of a Boss. If the Boss is difficult enough it isn't welfare anymore. It's only welfare to decent players, with a somewhat skilled raid and with a better Raid Performance than everyone else that can carry the Legendary.

    Short: Cloak Welfare because it's just simple grinding. Other Legendaries aren't welfare since it wasn't just your own sorry ass who worked towards the Legendary and you actually had to Raid.

  17. #1037
    Quote Originally Posted by Jadhak View Post
    Or, on the flip-side, it shows great greediness as you are forcing other people to help you get an item only you can use. Now, its down to personal responsibility (across a whole xpac and not just one patch cycle) to put the time in to do it.
    I wouldn't call it greedy to give a legendary to the player with highest activity/dedication/skill.
    It is irrelevant if that person is me or not, the important thing is that it benefits the entire raid the most.

  18. #1038
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    In my bunker leading uprisings
    Posts
    9,407
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Achievements weren't implemented until Wrath. BC achievements were retroactively and imperfectly filled in at patch 3.0 (I think).
    Very imperfectly filled.. I'm missing several
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  19. #1039
    Scarab Lord Mokoshne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    getting a coffee
    Posts
    4,483
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Very imperfectly filled.. I'm missing several
    i think they did their best at the time, given what items you had in your bags as it went live you got credit. Also raid quests etc helped them out, but yeah there were some missing that you had to re-earn.
    My weekly podcast can be downloaded here this week we discuss Bill Cosby

  20. #1040
    The Lightbringer Kathranis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Austin, Texas
    Posts
    3,273
    Quote Originally Posted by Dzudzadzo View Post
    Back in TBC. One did not just downed Illidan. Back in the day world first kills happened few months after patch release.
    Actually, world first Illidan kill was one month (4 weeks) after the patch came out, by Nihilim. They got the world first Archimonde kill a couple days later, too. Black Temple and Hyjal Summit were both only gated behind attunement questlines that required solo content and some clearing of older raid content, of course.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •