Welfare Legendary

[Deficineiron]

Not what this guy said....

First off 90% of the people who did the cloak through LFR and don't think it was a cop out probably would not have been able to kill Illidan much less get to BT when it required attunement.

So let's look at the glaives the day they were available and the work required for it:

First off you needed to attune to Kara. Why? That will come later. Kara attunement required 3 quests in dungeons. Not hard but still more work that the first quests of the cloak quest line.

Ok so you got to Kara now your guild needs to progress through Kara to gear up of course. Once that happens you need to gain rep with Violet Eye and do the quest line to be able to summon Nightbane for your guild. In order to do that you need to do Heroic Shattered Halls and Heroic Sethekk Halls which were both harder than any scenario you did for this cloak. Inb4 people claim they were easy when in truth they are thinking about normal mode not heroic when in heroic the rogues in the final corridor could 2 shot your clothies.

So you've killed Nightbane for the Blazing Signet he drops. Why? Because you need Vashj's vial. Well hold on you can't get into SSC still.... that's right you need to kill Gruul for his signet and have ventured twice into heroic slave pens.

So Gruul is dead and now your guild has to progress through SSC. You finally kill Vashj and get her vial yay! Wait a second.... there's 2 vials..... that's right you need to get into Tempest Keep and get Kael's vial. Hold on I think there's a problem with that..... another attunement.

To get into TK you needed to do a 30 quest long chain that required a group in many parts which culminated in 3 quests in what are the 4 hardest BC heroics(short of BM maybe) which in doing these 3 quests you actually made the heroics harder with exception of the 2 items from SV and SL. Once you did all of that you had to kill Magtheridon.

Yay you're in TK. Now you have to get to Kael and kill him for his vial. At least in progressing through TK you get 1 item you need in order to get into BT which drops off the first boss of TK.

So your guild finally killed Kael yay. You have your two vials..... ummm hold on the vials are for MH not BT...... That's right you need the phylactery from the lich in MH. Luckily he's a relatively easy kill and the first boss.

Well now you've killed Raz and you've killed A'lar. You can enter BT. Hmmmmm in order to pass Mother you need to have your guild in a high Shadow Res. Looks like while you farm for the hearts of darkness you need for the gear you can farm for gear from the bosses assuming your guild can down them. So you get SR up and you beat mother and you bit by bit after toiling get the bosses on farm. Oh yeah Illidan pre nerf was not a cake walk. You may be able to get a glaive or hell both can drop on your first kill, but who ever killed him in 1 attempt when it was relevant content? That's right Illidan outclassed most of today's bosses on heroic much less normal or LFR.

Do not give me that garbage that you worked any harder to get this welfare cloak than anyone did for glaives.

Oh and by the way there was no catch up gear until SWP was released.

someone who actually knows what they are talking about!

I remain mystified by the comparisons of time on the cloak vs. anything from classic/bc. getting atiesh or glaives damn near required part-time job dedication to the game for who knows how long.

[HeedmySpeed]

Also it has nothing to do with hardcore. As I've said in many other threads this is bad vs decent players. Bads are handed these by the boatload. Just like people standing in the welfare line who can't do 1+1. They "worked hard" afk in LFR.

It shouldn't be about the statistical data of how many players have it but more about what type of player is capable of obtaining.

If I played my ass off for something and I know there was no other way, then my reward would feel more gratifying.
If I played my ass off for something which is highly UNnecessary then my reward feels just as gratifying as if I had done it on the lowest required level of performance.

Either way I'm getting a Legendary and I'll be happy but it's a matter of how intense that feeling can hold me.

A meal cooked by a chef and a meal cooked by you personally will both satiate your apetite but the personally cooked meal will have added fulfillment.

[cainito]

All I hear is from people whining about cape being easy "QQ I don't get to be a special snowflake"

So the DS daggers... Because I'm not a rogue, nor have a rogue above lvl 30, I don't get a legendary... or even get to do a legendary quest, FL staff? Again, not a caster, so again I don't get a legendary item. Because I'm not the right class, I don't get a legendary. Not because I didn't raid or put the time into getting the item, not because I'm bad, but because I'm not the right class. However, NOW anyone can get a legendary as long as they put the time into getting the cloak. I've been on those stupid legendary quests since I hit 90, and now that time I've spent raiding, pvpin, farmin rep, I get a cloak. Finally, I get a legendary.

I like the legendary questline blizz did this xpac. Only thing I would consider changing would be the drops be in normal/heroics. Add to the "ooooooooh aaaaaaaaah," the mystique, the epicness of having the cloak. However, I'm fine with other people having the cloak. I didn't get my cloak to show off to other people, I got it cause it is the best damn piece of gear in the game for my toon.

[Milkyz]

I too, feel that a single lucky drop is far less of a welfare legendary than something that requires:

-74 raid boss kills (considering impossibly perfect RNG. You'll easily kill 2x this amount of bosses to meet the requirements)
-Exalted NPC status
-3000 valor points
-2 pvp wins
-1 group kill (pre-nerf)
-A seperate series of quests and tasks on an IoT
-One world boss kill
-Completion of one solo encounter

In contrast, I'm quite sure no one was ever carried to Warglaives or Thori'dal. Or Shadowmourne, for that matter.

*cough*

Just quoting this to make sure people who go to the last page can see it.

My words.

[ComputerNerd]

At least this has a definite progression, whereby there is a return based on your results.
Not relying on sheer dumb luck which can deny the legendary to someone far more worthy of having it, and instead give it to someone several tiers or an expansion later when it is no longer relevant.
That term is like many thrown around as an insult by arrogant people, those who believe "epic should be epic" when in reality it was never that.
There were world drops, there are multiple tiers of epics.
Therefore the rarity ceased to be a meaningful measure as soon as there was more than 1 tier of epics, or anything else.
The source for that to be meaningful should be in 1 place only, not multiple.

A random drop determined by good or back luck only is way more "welfare" than this, since your first kill and kill of only that single boss is capable of awarding it.
Can you skip every other part of this in the same way ? No.

[Dormie]

Just quoting this to make sure people who go to the last page can see it.

My words.

So basically, do everything in the game once. Grats?

[HeedmySpeed]

A random drop determined by good or back luck only is way more "welfare" than this, since your first kill and kill of only that single boss is capable of awarding it.
Can you skip every other part of this in the same way ? No.

What part of "you can get the cloak from LFR" don't you understand?

Like, get over it guys, the Legendary is a piece of cake to get compared to any other.
I know you had to farm a ton of bosses but remember you didn't have to set foot inside Normal modes.
Also don't leave out that most of the "work" you did yielded other rewards.
So when you divide the amount of "effort" you think you put in by the reward, don't exclude the Meta gems and epic cloak.

[Reclaimer]

Just ignore it. These are the people who have nothing better to do than sit around in Shrine dual wielding the shard's they got last month.

This. Don't listen to that. If something like that bothers you then i would how you would hold up against the idiot heroic raiders on my server that think everyone "underneath" them have "downs" and are better off Ending it because they are "worthless" in trade chat ( Its hard to believe people say stuff like this just because most people cant make it to heroic raiding, Disgusting )

[MagicBanana]

Bads are handed these by the boatload. Just like people standing in the welfare line who can't do 1+1. They "worked hard" afk in LFR.

Anyone can afk thru an lfr, most dont now a days, at least from my experience, many afkers get voted out almost instantly. And if you actually did the entire questline, there is a lot more to it than just afking thru lfr for random drops.

I honestly think blizzard did a great job with the quest line and is not getting enough credit for their hardwork. Im not saying its the best quest line ever, Im just saying if you really look at each quest from start to finish it is A HELL OF A LOT more interesting than farming Illidan in BT or KJ in Sunwell for months til you get "lucky". Thats just stupid in comparison.

[Zatetic]

But it has to do with making that item mean something, when everyone has it, it's meaningless. The back slot might as well not even exist after 5.4 because it's the same for everyone.

Every tier prior to this the back slot has been identical for every raider. Their respective BIS cloak.

As with legendary weapons since shadowmourne. They have been BiS and every person who could wield them worked towards them.

[Deleted]

how can people call it welfare?
is it because it finally allows everyone the chance of getting a legendary & the special snowflakes that used - yes, used - other guildies or pugs to get their legendary weapons, are the one's that are really upset? you can call it teamwork all you like, but imo thats bs.
the legendary weapons that ppl got in the past were as a direct result of others, lets not forget that fact.

[Amsden]

Ehh I don't really care, an upgrade is an upgrade, Orange, purple they're just colors to me, all I care about are the numbers. I have my cloak hidden in hopes it would have turned off that irritating visual effect Honestly I can't wait for the next expansion so I can get rid of the damn thing, as it is I only put it on for raids.

[Resentful]

how can people call it welfare?
is it because it finally allows everyone the chance of getting a legendary & the special snowflakes that used - yes, used - other guildies or pugs to get their legendary weapons, are the one's that are really upset? you can call it teamwork all you like, but imo thats bs.
the legendary weapons that ppl got in the past were as a direct result of others, lets not forget that fact.

Oh enough because IT'S NOT A LEGENDARY lets define legendary hell you define it right now do it.

[schwarzkopf]

Not what this guy said....

So - a guild does crap loads of work, then one person gets a nice shiny = real legendary ?
An individual does the same amount of work as that one person did and gets nice shiny = welfare legendary ?

Clear now. Real legendary requires you to be carried by goods, welfare legendary requires you to be carried by bads.

Makes sense now.

[Amsden]

Oh enough because IT'S NOT A LEGENDARY lets define legendary hell you define it right now do it.

Legendary item = Item Blizzard deemed special enough to give orange text.

There. Done!

[Deleted]

Oh enough because IT'S NOT A LEGENDARY lets define legendary hell you define it right now do it.

jesus, whats with the anger?
using caps & getting stressed over a post. 21k+ posts in 2 1/2 years, you really should get out more.
its a legendary because blizzard says it is. not because some keyboard warrior with more time on his hands than he obviously knows what to with, says otherwise.

[Deleted]

Actually, yes. Killing Illibobs was significantly more difficult with 1. less gear, 2. having to compose own strategy, 3. no movies. Getting to Illidan wasn't a cakewalk either, shadow gear gear for Shahraz, Gorefiend, Council, Reliq all challenging in their own regard.

It's a game forum, discussing a game. Competitive is competitive. You were also disingenuous claiming you "three shotted Illidan" - purporting you were one of the very first to drop him.

Yes. Crafting shadow gear with the hearts of darkness that the raids threw at you was SO hard.
You dont know shit.
I actually raided BT when it was relevant, and we downed Thrillidan.
We carried several people several times because our roster changed due to people quitting or rerolling.
We didnt bother going though Karazan=>gruul/maghteridon=>SSC/TK.

It was not hard, and there were most certainly guides.
Your ignorance doesnt make content hard.

The cloak is far more legendary than any "legendary" up until valanyr.
RNG doesnt make somethign legendary.

The effort and time required to get it does.
And no shit there are more cloaks than any other legendary, they finally had the sense to do away with silly bullshit class restricted legendaries.
Your worst dps is a hunter? Too bad, the legendary can only be used by hunters. have fun squandering such a powerfull item (although the bow was actually really good for rogues too)

You're all pissing acid because you arent little speshiul snowflakes anymore.
Get fucking over yourselves, you werent important to begin with.

[Tzalix]

Have you done heroic raiding before?

I have, actually.

There are always a few lazy bastards in each group.

[purebalance]

So - a guild does crap loads of work, then one person gets a nice shiny = real legendary ?
An individual does the same amount of work as that one person did and gets nice shiny = welfare legendary ?

Clear now. Real legendary requires you to be carried by goods, welfare legendary requires you to be carried by bads.

Makes sense now.

You obviously didn't read the the post. It was on the individual to get the insane number of quests done on the side as well.

If you got glaives day 1 of them being available you were not carried get that in your head. People like you would have never cleared BT when it was relevant.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes. Crafting shadow gear with the hearts of darkness that the raids threw at you was SO hard.
You dont know shit.
I actually raided BT when it was relevant, and we downed Thrillidan.
We carried several people several times because our roster changed due to people quitting or rerolling.
We didnt bother going though Karazan=>gruul/maghteridon=>SSC/TK.

It was not hard, and there were most certainly guides.
Your ignorance doesnt make content hard.

The cloak is far more legendary than any "legendary" up until valanyr.
RNG doesnt make somethign legendary.

The effort and time required to get it does.
And no shit there are more cloaks than any other legendary, they finally had the sense to do away with silly bullshit class restricted legendaries.
Your worst dps is a hunter? Too bad, the legendary can only be used by hunters. have fun squandering such a powerfull item (although the bow was actually really good for rogues too)

You're all pissing acid because you arent little speshiul snowflakes anymore.
Get fucking over yourselves, you werent important to begin with.

You obviously didn't kill Illidan when it was relevant because you couldn't carry people on him until he was nerfed.

Also collecting hearts for SR gear was about as hard as say oh I don't know half of the quests for the current legendary.

[Tzalix]

Oh enough because IT'S NOT A LEGENDARY lets define legendary hell you define it right now do it.

An item with it's name in orange.

That is the one and only definition of a legendary item in WoW. Orange = Legendary. Legendary = Orange. Period.

This cloak is legendary. Because it's name is in orange. End of discussion.