1. #1
    Stood in the Fire Vattenmelon's Avatar
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    Going from 10 man to 25

    I am raidleader in a big guild and we currently have one 10 man team (2/14), and flex raid for everyone who wants to join once a week. I get a lot of requests from people in the guild that wants to raid, but I always have to say "Sorry the 10 man team is full", sure it has happened that we needed a replacement so some person could raid once. So that's why I am taking a look on 25 man.

    Though the problem is I have never led any 25 man guild (I've led some pugs in wotlk, and one flex raid), and to get 25 people to work together be in time and do their best and fulfill all the other requirements, it seems very hard. In the 10 man team I know everyone pretty good, some of them have I raided a lot with, and it's fairly easy to see if someone needs to improve something.

    Of course if I do start recruit for 25 man I will make sure anyone who's interested fills out an application, which also involves agreeing on some conditions. The positive thing with 25 man for our guild would be that more people can raid, 25 man is much more attractive and finding players for it should not be a problem, and it's easier to switch around people since it doesn't make a great impact on the composition like in 10 man.

    So what do you think is this a good or bad idea? Any tips you can give me for 25 man?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Vattenmelon View Post
    I am raidleader in a big guild and we currently have one 10 man team (2/14), and flex raid for everyone who wants to join once a week. I get a lot of requests from people in the guild that wants to raid, but I always have to say "Sorry the 10 man team is full", sure it has happened that we needed a replacement so some person could raid once. So that's why I am taking a look on 25 man.

    Though the problem is I have never led any 25 man guild (I've led some pugs in wotlk, and one flex raid), and to get 25 people to work together be in time and do their best and fulfill all the other requirements, it seems very hard. In the 10 man team I know everyone pretty good, some of them have I raided a lot with, and it's fairly easy to see if someone needs to improve something.

    Of course if I do start recruit for 25 man I will make sure anyone who's interested fills out an application, which also involves agreeing on some conditions. The positive thing with 25 man for our guild would be that more people can raid, 25 man is much more attractive and finding players for it should not be a problem, and it's easier to switch around people since it doesn't make a great impact on the composition like in 10 man.

    So what do you think is this a good or bad idea? Any tips you can give me for 25 man?

    Great idea, unlike last tier 25 man IS ALOT easier this tier.

  3. #3
    Stood in the Fire Vattenmelon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hightotemz View Post
    Great idea, unlike last tier 25 man IS ALOT easier this tier.
    Well in that case it's great!

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Hightotemz View Post
    Great idea, unlike last tier 25 man IS ALOT easier this tier.
    Easier in what aspect?
    If you're geared, yes than it's easier than ToT, if not, then not obviously.

    If it's about 10 vs 25, then 25 man ist not easier than 10 man (we've been running both).

  5. #5
    Stood in the Fire Vattenmelon's Avatar
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    Just a side note in our current 10 man team the item lvl varies from 517-537. Someone said good geared tanks are really important for 25 man, don't know if it's true, though our two tanks me as brewmaster and a blood dk are the 2 best geared players in the group.

  6. #6
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    Before you start thinking of 25-man do some research amongst your raiders and ask can their PC handle 25-man in the first place? Cause the reason that half our people's PC just cannot take 25-man we started/starting 2 10-man teams.
    Mari officer/RL/OT of Punished ||6/14 HC 25-man w/ my HC PUG
    Moderator of R & D | Open Raid

  7. #7
    Herald of the Titans Valyrian Stormclaw's Avatar
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    The main difference is that in 25man raids, you'll be dividing the raid into multiple groups (usually five, five man groups). You'll assign leaders to each of those five man groups, who report to you and lead those under their command (the lesser leaders are usually the tanks). Expect to delegate leadership (one man cannot control all 25 people).

    If you happen to establish a 25m raid group, you really, really should keep your game in windowed mode and have a web browser with info on the bosses ready at all times. A voice server is a must have, and, since your already doing that much, you mind as well make your raids go on heroic difficulty as well. If your raid buddys have a lot of spare time, it would be extremely convenient for everyone if you ran the raid at the very least two times or more per raid session.

    Other than that, should be piece of cake.

  8. #8
    Stood in the Fire Vattenmelon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valyrian Stormclaw View Post
    The main difference is that in 25man raids, you'll be dividing the raid into multiple groups (usually five, five man groups). You'll assign leaders to each of those five man groups, who report to you and lead those under their command (the lesser leaders are usually the tanks). Expect to delegate leadership (one man cannot control all 25 people).

    If you happen to establish a 25m raid group, you really, really should keep your game in windowed mode and have a web browser with info on the bosses ready at all times. A voice server is a must have, and, since your already doing that much, you mind as well make your raids go on heroic difficulty as well. If your raid buddys have a lot of spare time, it would be extremely convenient for everyone if you ran the raid at the very least two times or more per raid session.

    Other than that, should be piece of cake.
    I already host my own mumble server and in the application I'll ask if their computer can handle 25 man. We currently raid 2 days a week, 6-8 hours total. Not so much, I at least want to avoid raiding 3 days since I am studying. Another thing I wonder is which way to handle loot is good? Ep/Gp? At the moment we do /roll and sometimes prioritize loot.

  9. #9
    I raid 10M for 3 years, then 25M for 6 months. And it was horrible. We create 25M from three 10M groups. All raiders with lot of HC experience.
    What you neeed to know is: need 30+ ppl, need extremly good RL with decent officers (chain of command is very important), need players who are able to listen and execute the order without unnecessary chatter (discipline is important). We create 25M gruop from experienced raiders. And did not go well. In MoP we went 11/16HC, but expectations were much higher.
    And when ToT start it took us 3 week to clear normal. And Horridon HC made the guild disbanded...

    I personally hate 25M. Chaos and slack are my first thoughts about it. Lack of balanced composition, we had 15-20 very good raiders (after they almost all go 13/13HC), but rest at best was mediocre. The only advantage for me was the fact that getting more TF/WF items.

    I tried 25M and I did not like it. So I was discouraged to play, that I took a two months break during ToT.

  10. #10
    Are you sure your existing raid team are happy to go 25 and if they are do they understand what it will involve. It is almost certain that at least some of the people you are adding to the team are not going to be as good as the existing team so it will hit your progression hard. Make sure you are not going to lose existing good players over this.

  11. #11
    Theres a a lot of good reason why 99% of guilds are going 25 man to 10 man and not the other way around.

    If theres enough interest form a second 10 man team (this normally ends badly too because of the stigma attached to a "B" team).

  12. #12
    Stood in the Fire Vattenmelon's Avatar
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    Two teams are a posibility, might can see if people wanna try that, though the new team will have bad gear compared to the current one.

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