What makes you think every boss is a brick wall?
Easy to begin with, but gets harder
A comfortable difficulty all the way through.
Overtuned, too difficult. Needs nerfing.
What makes you think every boss is a brick wall?
corelation without cause... always the worst way to look at data!
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Thank you all for your feedback it's really interesting to read!
A lot of you are complaining that guilds are overgearing the raid and there for making it easy for us. I agree that this is the case, but I think it is wrong. I don't think it should be so easy to overgear something in the first week (my team was only 4/13 heroic last tier, so most of us had a few heroic bits and bobs but far from full hc).
Also, I think the majority of you are missing the bigger picture here. When I talk about "Easy" I am also talking about the originality, complexity and uniqueness of the mechanics themselves. For example, Immerseus has an interesting mechanic where reaching 0 health does not kill him. We haven't seen this before and it made the fighe enjoyable as it was a new experience. Protectors was pretty simple, nothing new here. However it is the second boss so ill let it off. Norushen feels a lot like Gara'jal the Spiritbinder, but the corruption bar adds a nice spice to it.
Furthermore, Sha of Pride was also a lot of fun. I like how the pride worked. But it wasn't anything new. Deathbringer Saurfang worked in a similar fashion in where getting hit by abilities increased the boss' blood power and can be compared with the player's pride bar in the Sha fight.
It get's more straight forward. Galakras felt like a combination of Razorscale and Horridon. Iron Juggernaut had no specific mechanics, just simple "move out of stuff" and so did the Kor'Kron Dark Shaman. Nothing new here. Just move, move and move. General Nazgrim continues this legacy however the changes in his battle stance makes things more interesting. Bosses like Durumu the forgotten however was a breath of fresh air and was really original.
I am yet to see past this point in the raid, but so far I think the bosses are lacking originality in design and it kinda bores me. They're easy to learn, easy to get the hang off -- because we've seen it all before. That's my opinion anyway.
EDIT: I spent a couple hours trying Garrosh last night. The fight seemed very difficult and im looking forward to the challenge!
Last edited by Obsolus; 2013-09-18 at 03:43 PM.
Doing that killed almost 50% of the Normal raiding scene in the very first tier (T14, HoF specifically). ToT killed some more guilds.
SoO is stil overtuned for what a NORMAL raid should be. And of course T14 and T15 were even MORE overtuned.
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Thrall always was, is, and will be my true Warchief. Garrosh and Vol'jin werent/arent.
Normal IMO is pretty easy, this week even if you don't have a bunch of heroics from last tier. The fights have been out and documented, just youtube and learn what you need. Heroics this week are out and I gotta say they are pretty awesome, lots of challenges ahead. If you're looking for challenges, time to get into heroics, even the first one, Immerseus, I honestly can say took my group about 2 hours of wipes to get down.
Blood Legion, for instance, was 11/13h ToT within the first week of heroic progression. So, clearly, hardcore end-game guilds are not the metric by which difficulty is measured.
Don't get me wrong, it's not like this thread surprises me. These exact threads pop up during the first week of heroic progression for every tier. "Oh man, Paragon is 11/12h ICC already, is it too easy?" "Oh man, Blood Legion is 11/13h ToT already, is it too easy?"
No, it's not too easy. Hardcore end-game guilds will never have a problem clearing content. Stop using them as a metric.
Last edited by Belloc; 2013-09-18 at 05:26 PM.
Our team had a hard time figuring out if it's just that the raid is easy or that we are good (and outgear it). I've determined that it's our gear/skill. We were 7/13 Heroic in ToT and farmed those bosses to get everyone geared for SoO. Everyone in our group is 540+ and we got to 10/14 in the first week. Tonight, we stormed through and caught up to our current prog in just a couple hours. At first, we thought it was easymode, but I feel like it's just that we outgear it. Still, it's a nice change to us. My bf & I have never been in a spot where we cleared most of normal in the first week of a tier. We've had horrible luck in the past with losing half of our raid group at the end of tiers due to people quitting WoW/raiding. (We seriously only have 3 people from the original group from the tier before ToT >_>) This time we have a more stable group with competent players. I'm so excited! ^__^ !
I am a filthy casual!
Furthermore, that 10-week gate period didn't include any experimenting with heroic mechanics, so I'm not sure how that helped them prepare for anything. Also, I'm sure all that 264 ICC normal gear helped them so much more than their full 258s from ToGC.
I could also point out that, aside from end-bosses, heroic MSV, HoF, and ToES were cleared the day they were released. I could point out that ToGC was cleared on the first week.
Sure, this tier might be going faster for end-game guilds, but let's be honest... nothing about it is surprising. These guilds have been working harder and harder with every raid. They've been testing every boss. None of this is a surprise and none of it tells us that fights are easy or hard.
Last edited by Belloc; 2013-09-18 at 05:41 PM.
What would you prefer? Bosses that have maybe 1 mechanic tops? I'm genuinely curious because I've long though that raids have been overtuned for average run-of-the-mill raiders for a while, but I can't pinpoint exactly what I would change.
Normal is fine. If you are a normal raid guild you shouldn't be killing so many bosses straight away. Normal mode has to last for you.
If you are a heroic guild you cleared normal last week.
If you cannot kill first boss, you are more suited to Flex.
Normal is not overtuned at all in either size mode.
Last raid didn't have a very smooth progression curve... Horridon and troll council were far harder than bosses like JiKun and twin consorts yet were at the start of the instance blocking peoples progress. SoO gradually gets harder as you go along (not in every case but in general it does).
OMG 13:37 - Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Cleave unto me, and I shall grant to thee the blessing of eternal salvation."
And His disciples said unto Him, "Can we get Kings instead?"
Quite a bad double-edged sword IMO.
To me, number check fights with minimal mechanics such as Festergut are but excuses of a boss. These kind of encounters are only welcome if each tier brings only one, or perhaps two variations of itself into being (and not 12/14 as in SoO; the closest examples of satisfying encounters in SoO are Klaxxi and Blackfuse)
The thing is, NUMBER-requirement should merely complement the mechanical and organisational obstacles presented in an encounter, and not outright DEFINE the fight. The thrill of an encounter is finding new ways of gameplay, new solutions to old problems in the process of trying to master your output.
What I am saying is that SoO fights have got the number aspect closer to defining the bosses instead of complementing them and providing a harmonious whole.
+ I also can't help repeating that usually it is manifest in the encounters if the developers had fun designing the place/encounters or not. In SoO's case it seems that they were in a hurry and merged something together in order to move as quickly as possible to the next expansion.
Last edited by Potentio; 2013-09-18 at 06:26 PM.
My guild had a shitty time on Norushen. It turned out to be a chink in our strategy. We were originally counting on each dps to signal the next to take a portal once their big add came up top, and we were always hitting enrage at sub 5%. Then we changed it last night to every 20 seconds another dps goes down. Got the kill with 14 secs left on enrage first try using that change. Man I wish we'd have thought of it sooner, we'd be on Juggernaut easily by now as we continued the raid on 10-man (We're a 25-man guild) over the weekend and got Galakras down and almost Juggernaut if we had more time.
On topic: Definitely fairly easy in the beginning especially on 10, less on 25, but starts to climb difficulty sooner than you'd think.