The ultimate hardcore raid!

[Marston]

... at least it would seem like it, eh?

Hello there. Please don't take this whole thread too seriously. Let's just go wild for a bit, kay? (Might be a better idea to post this then in the general forum, but it's about raiding, so I am not sure~)

A new tier has started! A new world first race has started! ... and bosses fall down like flies. Seriously, what the actual flying fuck? Blood Legion just teared trough 10/14 bosses in less then a day! And I am pretty sure if they continue like this nothing will live for more then one day. The tunig is broken beyond anything and it seems to only get worse with each tier and expansion. Also, Blizzard just dumps down the game. Less and less trash, easier trash, bosses are much more forgiving, friggin teleports (!) inside the raid - and now "thunderforged" items. Were will it finally stop?

We should act now! Luckily Blizzard can easily fix many of this by just changing a few things.

1.) Tune the bosses harder. This is a no brainer, just make them harder. Of course they shouldn't be impossible, but I think something like this would be fine:
The first HC boss should be tuned around BiS normal mode gear to be beaten without any problems. That means, if your raid has BiS items and you don't do any mistakes, if the boss has a 5 minute enrage he should die after ~4:30 minutes. This basically gives you ~30 seconds (or more of the fight lasts longer of course) time you can use to compensate for mistakes or missing gear (most likely gear). After this, each new boss should be tuned with an increased overall itemlevel of 1. So if the first boss was tuned for 550 for the whole raid, the next should be tuned for 551, the one after that for 552 etc. You would of course not get an overall increase of 1 itemlevel if you only get a few pieces, so even if you have BiS normal mode items after a few bosses you will just hit a brick wall for this week. But maybe just one week is enough to get the missing gear and kill the next one or even two bosses!

2.) Make trash more difficult. And by the love of god, ADD trash. As much as people hate trash, no trash at all is also stupid - just think back at T9 and how fun that was. But if trash is just an AoE fest it's also boring. So make it harder. The ideal solution might even be a hybrid of the Sunwell trash difficulty and the Black Temple trash amount.

3.) The Runback. Why the fuck do we respawn right in front of the instance? That makes NO FUCKING SENSE! Take Karazhan. There was a graveyard directly beneath the tower. That made sense, because there was also a town. Now think of Molten Core for example. We used to have to run back from a graveyard in the northern part of Searing Gorge, because Blizzard knew it made no sense to put one inside of Blackrock Spire. Also, you should be punished for dieing. If you wouldn't have died you now wouldn't have to run for 5 minutes. Your problem, just be better next time.

4.) Teleports. Why is it that every new dungeon now has teleports? I can understand that they were in Ulduar, because it was a Titan facility. But why were there teleports in ICC? Why, after we killed a certain boss, we can just "sneak" past him through another gate that was of no use for us before? Why couldn't we just do it from the beginning? It makes no sense! I liked the solution in AQ40, were you got teleported to the Twins room after they died. It was something special after you have accomplished so much in there - and not something so easy to obtain. I would like to get back to this system.


So, these are my ideas how to increase the time between bosskills. We wouldn't see so many bosskills in such a short amount of time. A single wipe could cost you 10 minutes before you could even start buffing. And after a few of those wipes you would get respawn. Sounds nice, right? Would probably make for a much more interesting world first race and would please many who are complaining now.

[Darsithis]

3.) The Runback. Why the fuck do we respawn right in front of the instance? That makes NO FUCKING SENSE! Take Karazhan. There was a graveyard directly beneath the tower. That made sense, because there was also a town. Now think of Molten Core for example. We used to have to run back from a graveyard in the northern part of Searing Gorge, because Blizzard knew it made no sense to put one inside of Blackrock Spire. Also, you should be punished for dieing. If you wouldn't have died you now wouldn't have to run for 5 minutes. Your problem, just be better next time.

I wanted to touch on this one in particular. The impetus to not die is the reward in terms of titles, mounts, gear, and not having to pay more of a repair bill. A very long run back will not make people "play better". It will only serve to annoy. Obnoxiously-far-away rez points are just that: obnoxious. No one will be happy to throw away 15 - 20 minutes slowly walking back to the instance because a bug caused a wipe. Or a last second heal arrived too late. Or lag caused a tank to DC and the raid wiped.

[Blueban]

... at least it would seem like it, eh?

3.) The Runback. Why the fuck do we respawn right in front of the instance? That makes NO FUCKING SENSE!

That killed the realism in the game for me too d:

[quellious]

Why does it matter to you how hard the bosses are if you're not even doing them on Heroic yet? Blood Legion, and guilds like it, spend entire days raiding. Of course they will plow through the content. No matter how hard you make the content, it's all about repetition. The more times you do it, the more of a chance there is you will succeed. All your other ideas are simply time sinks, and have no relevance to making the game more difficult, only more annoying.

[Deleted]

That killed the realism in the game for me too d:

Because resurrecting after you die is a pretty normal occurance in reality ... right? ;P

[Abyssion]

Why does it matter to you how hard the bosses are if you're not even doing them on Heroic yet? Blood Legion, and guilds like it, spend entire days raiding. Of course they will plow through the content. No matter how hard you make the content, it's all about repetition. The more times you do it, the more of a chance there is you will succeed. All your other ideas are simply time sinks, and have no relevance to making the game more difficult, only more annoying.

Sunwell had plenty repetitions, yet only few emerged.

We need to go back to BC raiding difficulty.

[NightZero88]

A new tier has started! A new world first race has started! ... and bosses fall down like flies. Seriously, what the actual flying fuck? Blood Legion just teared trough 10/14 bosses in less then a day! And I am pretty sure if they continue like this nothing will live for more then one day. The tunig is broken beyond anything and it seems to only get worse with each tier and expansion. Also, Blizzard just dumps down the game. Less and less trash, easier trash, bosses are much more forgiving, friggin teleports (!) inside the raid - and now "thunderforged" items. Were will it finally stop?

Are you in one of those top guilds? Have you even cleared in normal? If not, please be quiet since you have no right to comment on things you don't have a clue about.

1.) Tune the bosses harder. This is a no brainer, just make them harder. Of course they shouldn't be impossible, but I think something like this would be fine:
The first HC boss should be tuned around BiS normal mode gear to be beaten without any problems. That means, if your raid has BiS items and you don't do any mistakes, if the boss has a 5 minute enrage he should die after ~4:30 minutes. This basically gives you ~30 seconds (or more of the fight lasts longer of course) time you can use to compensate for mistakes or missing gear (most likely gear). After this, each new boss should be tuned with an increased overall itemlevel of 1. So if the first boss was tuned for 550 for the whole raid, the next should be tuned for 551, the one after that for 552 etc. You would of course not get an overall increase of 1 itemlevel if you only get a few pieces, so even if you have BiS normal mode items after a few bosses you will just hit a brick wall for this week. But maybe just one week is enough to get the missing gear and kill the next one or even two bosses!

Just because less than 1% of the raiding population which is likely a very small percentage of the total amount of people that play this game can down the boss quickly doesn't mean the rest of the players should be screwed because of it. The harder you make the heroic bosses the harder it makes for the top 1% yes, but it makes it exponentially harder for the people who aren't the 1% and that is just bad business. Why screw over the majority to help the minority? Clearly you know nothing about running a successful business.

2.) Make trash more difficult. And by the love of god, ADD trash. As much as people hate trash, no trash at all is also stupid - just think back at T9 and how fun that was. But if trash is just an AoE fest it's also boring. So make it harder. The ideal solution might even be a hybrid of the Sunwell trash difficulty and the Black Temple trash amount.

People don't want to waste time on trash. I raid to kill bosses not dick around with stupid trash. The trash to Ji'kun? People kept finding ways to skip it because it was so long and pointless. Artificially prolonging the raid by adding meaningless trash is just dumb.

3.) The Runback. Why the fuck do we respawn right in front of the instance? That makes NO FUCKING SENSE! Take Karazhan. There was a graveyard directly beneath the tower. That made sense, because there was also a town. Now think of Molten Core for example. We used to have to run back from a graveyard in the northern part of Searing Gorge, because Blizzard knew it made no sense to put one inside of Blackrock Spire. Also, you should be punished for dieing. If you wouldn't have died you now wouldn't have to run for 5 minutes. Your problem, just be better next time.

Here again, artificially adding time by making the run back longer is beyond retarded. You're just adding time wasters to add time wasters. It would slow down the normal raiders by an extreme amount and most would just quit because of the sheer stupidity of it.

4.) Teleports. Why is it that every new dungeon now has teleports? I can understand that they were in Ulduar, because it was a Titan facility. But why were there teleports in ICC? Why, after we killed a certain boss, we can just "sneak" past him through another gate that was of no use for us before? Why couldn't we just do it from the beginning? It makes no sense! I liked the solution in AQ40, were you got teleported to the Twins room after they died. It was something special after you have accomplished so much in there - and not something so easy to obtain. I would like to get back to this system.

Because Blizz knows that players don't want to waste time on trivial stuff. If I spend an hour wiping on a boss that's one thing but if I spend 30 minutes wiping on a boss and another 30 minutes because I have to run for 10 minutes back to the boss people will stop playing because it is DUMB and Blizz knows that.

So, these are my ideas how to increase the time between bosskills. We wouldn't see so many bosskills in such a short amount of time. A single wipe could cost you 10 minutes before you could even start buffing. And after a few of those wipes you would get respawn. Sounds nice, right? Would probably make for a much more interesting world first race and would please many who are complaining now.

No, it would just piss people off. All it does is add STUPID reasons to prolong the race which really only affects less than 1% of the total 7 million wow players.

Overall, your ideas are stupid and pointless and I thank the lord you do not work for Blizz.

[Puddlejumper]

He did say not to take the thread very seriously.

[-Psypher-]

I do think it'd be cool to have challenge mode raids, though.

[Forgettable]

I wanted to touch on this one in particular. The impetus to not die is the reward in terms of titles, mounts, gear, and not having to pay more of a repair bill. A very long run back will not make people "play better". It will only serve to annoy. Obnoxiously-far-away rez points are just that: obnoxious. No one will be happy to throw away 15 - 20 minutes slowly walking back to the instance because a bug caused a wipe. Or a last second heal arrived too late. Or lag caused a tank to DC and the raid wiped.

I was going to respond to the OP, but you already said exactly what I was going to say. A 5 minute loading screen (aka run back) is not playing, it's waiting. And it's annoying. I'm glad they added portals after defeating bosses.

[Deja Thoris]

Well..why not go all out? Die enough and you DE-LEVEL!!!!

All out is when dead is dead :P

[Marston]

I actually said to not take this whole thing too seriously, but it seems that's still not enough.

I know for myself that the stuff I posted is beyond retarded. I know that you can not balance around world first guilds, because no one else would be able to kill anything. Yet it seems some people still don't understand that. The thing is, what exactly are the people who post each tier that bosses die so fast think? Do they want things like what I posted above? It might be retarded, but you have to agree it would definitly increase the time between kills - which seems to be oh so much important to some.

The only thing were I was half serious is the trash. I do like trash and I was probably one of the few who didn't think Throne of Thunder had too much trash. I like to just relax for a few minutes and hit more or less brainlesslely (well, at least more brainless than when I fight a real boss, but a bit of CC here and there would also be fine) and chat with my guild about various stuff that might not be boss killing related.

Oh well, I started something else last year I think, which was also retarded beyond believe (and for which I actually got infracted - might be also for this?) just to show how stupid things can get - but back then people also just thought I am dead serious. Meh~