View Poll Results: Should PVP-flagging be confirmed before applying it?

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  • Yes, it should be confirmed

    63 42.28%
  • No, leave accidental flagging as is

    63 42.28%
  • I don't care

    5 3.36%
  • I'm playing on PVP realm and don't care about it

    18 12.08%
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  1. #81
    It's not so much about confirmed, but if you're not flagged then players who are flagged should simply register as an 'Invalid Target.' The confirmation would be actively flagging yourself in the first place.

    Do flagged players think it's cool that a player can be unflagged to get the drop on them?

  2. #82
    Legendary! Treelife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windfury View Post
    Why exactly should people have to do any of that? They chose to play on a pve server so they wouldn't have to pvp, many people paid hundreds of dollars to move to pve realms to not pvp. Why should they then also have to alter their playstyle constantly to be able to do what they are already paying to do, and what is a completely reasonable expectation on the type of server they chose? In particular why should anyone be expected to alter their playstyle in order to better accommodate griefers?

    That's what the people who run around trying to force flags are - let's not pretend it's anything else. They have no interest in actual pvp, they're just out to make other people miserable. I don't see why anyone else should have to change to accommodate that. The griefers should have to change, and if they won't then they should be forced to do so through having the mechanic altered so they can't abuse it. Why shouldn't they be prevented from being able to do this? Why shouldn't they be quickly banned?

    If you made a complaint about some other sort of griefing behaviour, say someone purposefully keeping a group in combat and wiping in LFR so you couldn't kick them, and I told you that it's your fault, your responsibility and you're the one obligated to quit and eat a half hour debuff and 45 minute queue to manage the problem would you think that was reasonable?
    Okay, let's swap this around a bit.

    Why should BLIZZARD have to change anything else because of players not paying attention? They chose a NORMAL server (which as they say a lot is default PvP off but can still be PvP flagged).

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Treelife View Post
    Okay, let's swap this around a bit.

    Why should BLIZZARD have to change anything else because of players not paying attention? They chose a NORMAL server (which as they say a lot is default PvP off but can still be PvP flagged).
    Why should you be able to ruin someone elses game by deliberately trying to force them into a mistake? Blaming the victim to excuse a perpetrator is just straight up fucking retarded on every level it ever comes up.

    There was an old IRA phrase from the troubles, that they only had to get it right once; the security services had to be right every time.
    Last edited by Jessicka; 2013-09-20 at 12:37 PM.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Treelife View Post
    Okay, let's swap this around a bit.

    Why should BLIZZARD have to change anything else because of players not paying attention? They chose a NORMAL server (which as they say a lot is default PvP off but can still be PvP flagged).
    Because it's a poorly thought through mechanic that does not have any positive purposes.
    Why do we have connected flight-routes now ? You were able to get to your destination before that was put in. Still i don't think anyone would want the old system back.
    A world pvp opt out on PvE servers wouldn't affect anyone except some griefers. So whats so bad about that ?

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    Because it's a poorly thought through mechanic that does not have any positive purposes.
    Why do we have connected flight-routes now ? You were able to get to your destination before that was put in. Still i don't think anyone would want the old system back.
    A world pvp opt out on PvE servers wouldn't affect anyone except some griefers. So whats so bad about that ?
    Pretty much sums it up. Yes it's not the end of the world, but yes it is annoying for some and has no positive benefits except for people that are out to grief you. So doing something about sounds like a logical conclusion.
    That said, it's pretty low priority I reckon, so for I'll just have to pay attention.

    P.S. Off topic: Years ago I read a suggestion that it would be nice to completely opt out of pvp and get some sort of diplomacy system in return that would allow contact to the opposing faction to some extent. Not going to happen but that would be very awesome, I wouldn't mind opting out part of the game I never touch in favour of something I would like to do
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  6. #86
    On a PvE realm, there should be an option to never be able to attack an enemy player if you are not flagged. If you see a "Yellow" nameplate and you click on them, they are still treated as if they were "Blue". If you actually *want* to engage in PvP with them, you would have to simply flag up with /PvP first.

    This would avoid the accidental flagging caused by douchebags that like to get in the middle of a scrum of mobs and shit while flagged hoping someone tabs to them and hits them so they get flagged.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by ItachiZaku View Post
    I PVP a lot, but not on all my toons. When my WW's orb tick is what hits a flagged person... it's total bullshit.

    I do agree that only flagged should be able to attack flagged, only a paladin bubble can stop me from obliterating anyone on my elemental shaman. Pop ascendance and trinkets etc, nothing survives that. I can prep it all and fire that first shot without being flagged.
    Spare me the bullshit. Aoe does not flag you for pvp, and will not damage a player unless you specifically cast it on them.
    Aoe will only hit enemy players if you're flagged.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Treelife View Post
    Okay, let's swap this around a bit.

    Why should BLIZZARD have to change anything else because of players not paying attention? They chose a NORMAL server (which as they say a lot is default PvP off but can still be PvP flagged).
    Is this a real question?

    Blizzard as the game designer is the one who should be changing things that aren't working well because it's their job to do that. We pay them to do that. It's their job to look at customer feedback and the way things are being used/abused and respond appropriately and keep their customers happy so they remain as customers.

    The players can't change the game code. They players aren't being paid to be there - they're giving their own time and money to be there. Your 'lets reverse this' argument only makes any sense if you also reverse the supplier/consumer relationship that exists.

    It's the same reason for every improvement in the game they've ever made. Why did they put in mounts? We could just walk there. Why do summoning stones exist - there's already warlocks? Why do talents exist? Why are class changes made? Why are any QOL changes made when they're not absolutely necessary? It's a game - nothing is completely necessary - that doesn't mean changes won't improve the game experience.

    They have already changed things to put in confirm boxes to prevent people accidentally doing something they didn't intend (e.g. disenchanting, trashing blue quality items, learning/equipping some items etc). That's pretty much exactly what's being asked for here and it's something they already do in these situations. I think it would be simpler to just have a 'turn auto flagging off' option in the menu for pve players rather than constant popups personally, but it's hardly an unprecedented and impossible thing that's being asked for.

    If anything we should ask whether making the change would improve the game, or whether it would harm the game? The end result would be preventing problem players from griefing people and a bunch of pve players who can just relax and enjoy their game. That sounds like a win-win to me. What positives does not making the change bring to the game exactly?
    Last edited by Windfury; 2013-09-20 at 11:26 PM.

  9. #89
    The Patient dcuffel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windfury View Post
    If anything we should ask whether making the change would improve the game, or whether it would harm the game? The end result would be preventing problem players from griefing people and a bunch of pve players who can just relax and enjoy their game. That sounds like a win-win to me. What positives does not making the change bring to the game exactly?
    I'll tell you how it harms the game, it stops me and others like me from being able to kill whiny crybabies who can't take an ounce of world PvP, when FFS, it's not only called WARcraft, but it's BASED off of a game that was ALL PvP.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by dcuffel View Post
    I'll tell you how it harms the game, it stops me and others like me from being able to kill whiny crybabies who can't take an ounce of world PvP, when FFS, it's not only called WARcraft, but it's BASED off of a game that was ALL PvP.
    If you want to pvp then great, play on a pvp server. That's what it's there for, and I support your right to pvp there as much as you want.

    But turning up and posting with complaints about not being able to grief people because they don't play how you think they should on a server that is specifically set aside for their style of play is doing nothing other than proving the point that there is literally no downside to allowing pve players more control over their flagging on pve servers.

    Oh noes, you'd have to go to a pvp server and actually pvp, and respect other people's decisions on how they play just like you expect them to respect yours. How awful for you.
    Last edited by Windfury; 2013-09-21 at 12:55 AM.

  11. #91
    Warchief TheDangerZone's Avatar
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    I don't really think this is an issue, and I play on a roleplay server. I feel it just comes with the territory and it's a consequence of your own actions, and 5 mins of pvp flagging is really barely a punishment

  12. #92
    AOE spells cast by unflagged players should not hit flagged players IMO. If I finally spend the money to get off this horribly unbalanced PvP server I'd be annoyed having to deal with people running into my mind sear.

  13. #93
    Fortunally Blizzard are supporting our position. The question is when? You know, that they may telling you "it's so hard to implement", "we have no resources", "it's not our priority" for ages, which makes what they're telling only an empty words. But some changes should be implemented here and now! Cuz it's right time and place for this. Just because in a future this changes may obsolete. And... This problems are making players hate this content now, so if this changes will be delayed, then it may be too late for this in the future. But! Don't listen for this empty promises. Why? Just because tech is already in game! How? Well. We have sanctuaries in game since BC. As simple as that. So all they have to do, is to turn "PVP flag off" into "Sanctuary mode". I don't think, it's really so hard.
    PurePVE Addon: If Blizzard refuses to solve our problems, we will find solutions by ourselves.
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  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by AVPaul View Post
    Fortunally Blizzard are supporting our position. The question is when? You know, that they may telling you "it's so hard to implement", "we have no resources", "it's not our priority" for ages, which makes what they're telling only an empty words. But some changes should be implemented here and now! Cuz it's right time and place for this. Just because in a future this changes may obsolete. And... This problems are making players hate this content now, so if this changes will be delayed, then it may be too late for this in the future. But! Don't listen for this empty promises. Why? Just because tech is already in game! How? Well. We have sanctuaries in game since BC. As simple as that. So all they have to do, is to turn "PVP flag off" into "Sanctuary mode". I don't think, it's really so hard.
    If that is the case and Blizz does agree can't wait until they put it to action.

    Oh the tears of the pvp people who will not be able to gank and grief anymore will be sweet.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Maneo View Post
    If that is the case and Blizz does agree can't wait until they put it to action.

    Oh the tears of the pvp people who will not be able to gank and grief anymore will be sweet.
    Yeah. Not only PVPer should be able to tell "This server is not for you - go pay extra money for transfers". We have paid for our transfers and Blizzard should do, what we payed for, now.
    PurePVE Addon: If Blizzard refuses to solve our problems, we will find solutions by ourselves.
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    I think it's really easy and even attractive to people to daydream about worst case scenarios©Bashiok
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  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by IceStationZebra View Post
    Let me state

    I’m on a PVE server because:

    I don’t like to PVP

    I do not enjoy PVP

    I’m not geared for PVP

    I never ever want to PVP

    I have zero interest in PVP

    I want nothing to do with PVP

    So when I have my characters PVP flag off on my PVE server I expect to never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever get flagged as PVP.

    Last night on the Timeless Isle the other faction had PVP players waiting at rares attacking PVE players. It was so much fun……..NOT.
    If you're on a PvE server and you are never flagged, how were you being attacked by players?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rebecca191 View Post
    AOE spells cast by unflagged players should not hit flagged players IMO. If I finally spend the money to get off this horribly unbalanced PvP server I'd be annoyed having to deal with people running into my mind sear.
    AoE spells cast by unflagged players do not hit flagged players.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by ItachiZaku View Post
    It's reportable. You wait 5 minutes, they wait 72 hours.
    No as long as you are just standing there without a huge mount it's definitely not.
    Quote Originally Posted by rebecca191 View Post
    AOE spells cast by unflagged players should not hit flagged players IMO. If I finally spend the money to get off this horribly unbalanced PvP server I'd be annoyed having to deal with people running into my mind sear.
    Nearly all of them don't.
    Ran around on a pve realm a friend of mine plays on. All flags happen because people are dumb and spam rightclick on mobs for looting.

  18. #98
    I am Murloc! Tommo's Avatar
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    I find it ironic that these PvE players suck at doing basic tactics like "dont click on the red or your dead". Its the same as not standing in fire, just follow basic rules and you'll never get caught by the scary players. If you dont follow these rules enjoy the corpse run.

    WoW was never about PvE or PvP its about a gentle mix of both, PvE servers are there so you dont have to constantly be on guard, they arent there to get rid of PvP forever. Im sorry to say this, but if you can do a few HCs but cant do basic things like avoid getting flagged, your a straight up bad player.

    Nowadays the difference between PvP and PvE gear is negligible, you can still wreck people without PvP gear, if you actually know your class well.

  19. #99
    Scarab Lord TylerN's Avatar
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    On PvE realms, only flagged people should be valid targets when it comes to PvP.
    Should not be able to flag yourself and attack a non flagged person. Healing should not flag you, but you should also not be able to heal flagged people while staying un-flagged - as that would obviously be bad.

    Thankfully, I know all the tricks of the so-called "PvP'ers". Starting on a PvP realm also helps with knowing the PvP "system", but I had enough after 2-3 years. And migrated to a PvE realm, best thing I ever did in WoW.

  20. #100
    I've been playing Wow since Classic (in terms of experience, not playing on official servers) and I used to have some playstyle - i.e. I don't even realizing, what buttons I'm pressing - it's automatic. And I can't use playstyle, I used to, on a server, that is intended to suit my playstyle, cuz I have to avoid some jerks, that are trying to use this playstyle to grief me? Are you joking? You, guys, are elitists, that can't brought any arguments agains this change, except "L2P noobs".
    PurePVE Addon: If Blizzard refuses to solve our problems, we will find solutions by ourselves.
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    I think it's really easy and even attractive to people to daydream about worst case scenarios©Bashiok
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