Is the USA a declining country?

[Olo]

the rich asshole ceo's, vp's, share holders, board members, bankers, politicians, etc. they ruined the economy and need to die for it.

this thread is going places

[zhero]

We're the fourth most educated country in the world (source).

Pearson has the USA ranked 17

[Itisamuh]

Look at the bright side. Gay marriages are about to become legal everywhere, drugs are about to become perfectly legal, and everyone's gonna get a freebie health insurance.

So where exactly is the bright side?

[frumper]

GDP is going back up so I don't know how anyone can argue the economy is down.

Easy, the numbers largely point to the wealthier Americans doing well and the poor doing much worse, and the middle class down. The hope for a lot of people is that the recovery reaches down to those still hurting, but that hasn't happened much. People should feel more secure in a "recovering" economy and they don't because for many, it hasn't shown much recovery.


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-...-survey-finds/

[Deleted]

This sort of crap doesn't happen to a true world power. When foreigners control (oh excuse me "share") 5 bases in your country, and you are a tiny little island, and its peacetime, you no longer matter.

By that logic the numerous "shared" nuclear tests that Britain conducted in Nevada would be pretty embarrassing for you. Never mind having military bases, we nuked your country.

Back on topic, yes, America is in decline, or at least it is losing its influence. America's ability to act unilaterally is under threat, and we'll continue to see shifts towards a more diplomatic foreign policy.

[worsthitmanNa]

So where exactly is the bright side?

If weed becomes legal. People won't be put in prison for it which means less tax dollars spent housing them. When people get married don't they have to spend money so their is another side to that as well. The health care one is kind of hate or love thing thou.

[slvlol]

If weed becomes legal. People won't be put in prison for it which means less tax dollars spent housing them. When people get married don't they have to spend money so their is another side to that as well. The health care one is kind of hate or love thing thou.

On the other hand, they're eligible for the Married Filing Jointly status which gives them access to increased deductions/credits on their taxes. I'm all for same sex marriages, just stating facts.

[LilSaihah]

Isn't a big portion of GDP rising based behind gubmint dicking around the numbers and making government spending count as a proportion of GDP where it previously didn't?

OT; while I'm not sure about America declining or not, if it were a company, I probably wouldn't be very keen on investing in it.

[Nadiru]

and everyone's gonna get a freebie health insurance.

It's not free, though.

[Mercadi]

So where exactly is the bright side?

Oops, I forgot to say "sarcasm". My bad.

[Saishi]

The only part of the OP's post I want to touch on is education and my opinions from my own experiences. I disagree that we border on third world countries, but I feel the education system as a whole in this country is highly flawed. Our focus on standardized test scores borders on ludicrous levels. When a schools funding is tied to how well it does on those tests of course the curriculum will be tailored to passing those tests. The question is: Does mainly focusing on these tests really promote a good learning environment and retaining this knowledge? From my experiences it does not.

Here in Milwaukee I'd guess our public school system rates on the low end. The way the material was taught was just plain stupid. They would repeat the same material year after year and add new material when it was needed. It was so tedious and boring in my classes that once the tests were over you just forgot everything. Luckily I went to arts schools so they incorporated that into the process so I can't even imagine how terrible it would be in a normal school. Hearing about it from my friends at other schools was just sad. I just don't understand how we are really going to learn anything relevant when the teachers are so locked into what they can teach. English was a good example. They literally would spend weeks, if not months, every single year going over grammar and similar things. Every single year. If they have to teach the exact same material every year clearly something is wrong with how students retain that information or the teachers are forced to do it. If you don't understand grammar or how to read by your senior year in high school, I just don't even...

Basically, I had many bad experiences here in the Milwaukee Public School system. I would go over it in detail, but it would take ages. Essentially what it comes down to is that public schools, at least here, are terrible and really need a revamp. When the majority of what you learn is just to pass a test like the ACT or SAT and nothing else I consider that a failure. My mind is very unique in how it processes information and it's hard for me to retain anything for very long outside a few exceptions. I have extremely high comprehension skills, but I can't retain the data for very long since my memory just won't keep it. I don't remember much of my life and I can't visualize memories without photographic aids and even then it's hard. I know things happened in my life, but I can't picture it and I don't remember specifics at all. So you can imagine how studying for those tests worked. Not well... I remember a general gist of what I learned, but never specifics like dates or mathematic formulas, ect no matter how hard I tried. So essentially the whole system was a failure for me. I was considered highly intelligent by everyone around me, but they didn't understand how you can be smart and have a terrible memory issue.

Anyways, this is all from my point of view from my personal experiences and problems I faced in school. I may be in the minority who don't function well in a normal school, but should those people be ignored? It took until the second semester of my Senior year after my mother got the rules of the school system changed for them to admit I needed help and grant the IEP they denied me originally based on complete bullcrap. (They said all my issues in school were caused from issues at home... Basically a huge cop out for them so they didn't have to help.) Of course it was too late at this point and I ended up dropping out and getting my HSED shortly after and continuing to college. It's good the rules have been changed for the future students like me, but it really isn't enough. Until the schools treat each student like a person and not a number in the system to get funding I don't see the problems going away. Well sorry for the long ass rant, but I am very highly opinionated on this matter as I am sure you can tell. :P

[Mayhem]

GDP is going back up so I don't know how anyone can argue the economy is down.

well about 20% of the US gdp is thanks to the financial service sector and the real estate, renting and leasing sector, no wonder it´s going back up

but i´d say that´s not really helping anyone, it´s the creation of the next bubble

- - - Updated - - -

Isn't a big portion of GDP rising based behind gubmint dicking around the numbers and making government spending count as a proportion of GDP where it previously didn't?

OT; while I'm not sure about America declining or not, if it were a company, I probably wouldn't be very keen on investing in it.

about 9% of the gdp is thanks to state and local government

[Cybran]

At least they are not doing as bad as Europe.

[shimerra]

Isn't a big portion of GDP rising based behind gubmint dicking around the numbers and making government spending count as a proportion of GDP where it previously didn't?

OT; while I'm not sure about America declining or not, if it were a company, I probably wouldn't be very keen on investing in it.

What? GDP calculations have never not counted as a portion of GDP government spending. Ever. Period. Since it was invented. The thing they used before GDP included government spending. Where the hell are you pulling that information out of and more importantly why would you ever think a number like GDP would ever exclude government spending?


You'd probably be one of the only companies not doing so then, at least not a little bit. When America got its credit downgraded people couldn't shovel their money into dollars fast enough. Sure America was relative to its past a worse prospect, but compared to the alternatives we were beautiful.

[Grummgug]

By that logic the numerous "shared" nuclear tests that Britain conducted in Nevada would be pretty embarrassing for you. Never mind having military bases, we nuked your country.

Conducting tests is way different than having a permanent base filled with foreign troops.

[Mister K]

They just started printing more $$$. Lol at those saying USA is going up.

Indeed, the country is not producing labor, it's giving it away although they are trying to turn that around right now. The value of the dollar is not moving up, at least here in UK the dollar isn't very strong Education system rank 4? hmm

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

ouch :S

[Torgent]

The economy IS down. The Market is thriving only because the feds are pumping money in, artificially inflating it. This is evident by the sensitivity shown by the Stock Market every time investors think the feds are going to stop pumping in money.

Real Unemployment is currently around 14%. Temporary or not, that IS high.

According to the Huffington Post the US ranks 17th for education. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2199795.html) That's an average that has held for the last three years as a story from USA Today, in 2010, ranked us 14th in reading, 17th in science and 25th in math. Most studies still agree that we rank in the 20's when it comes to subjects like math and science.

Not exactly "third world," but not stunning or "fourth" either.

EDIT:

A bit of personal experience with our public education.

I graduated from High School in 1996. At that time the following was true about the education I received.

History: Was distinctly slanted in favor of the US and we learned NOTHING post WW2. Apparently Korea, Vietnam, the Cold War, and any number of other (major) events simply weren't worth teaching us about.

English: The only complaint I have is that this was NOT challenging. However it wasn't really lacking either.

Math: I'm not exaggerating when I say that we had no math classes after tenth grade. We were never taught things like Algebra. And to attend even a community college would have required two semesters of "make-up" courses just to reach an entry level in math.

Science: See math.

You went to a terrible school, don't assume all are like that. There are guidelines in place to say what courses a student should be taking. All highschools run a pre-college track now, afaik.

[Zecora]

Our economy is down, the value of our dollar is down, unemployment is high, and our education rates are close to that of a third world country. Personally, I think that the US is in decline.

Depends on your definition of "decline". As I think any country that treat its citizens like suspects, eavesdrops on them, prioritize corporate intrest above public ones, allows companies to have protection from prosecution in case of their products harming somone, refuse to adhere to international law and so on is a country in decline (albeit a moral decline), I would have to say "yes".

[Deleted]

yes it is,as is most of the western world

democracy has detoriated in a form of idiotic pluralism where one can form a goverment with barely 30% of the total votes and a misguided minority can elect goverments,
it has lost all of it's original meaning,as has justice which is more about punishment or getting away with money and good lawyers.

USA is leading the western's world jump into obscurity,supporting free markets(aka the right to steal freely and quite tactfully) and the 'right to be an idiot'(like supporting policies that diminish your life quality),as long as you're doing it 'constructively and in an intelligent manner'...

what saddens me the most is how it began,once USA was a beacon of hope,today is the capital of greed and amorality concealed behind pretty words and big crosses.

[Kazzyku]

our education rates are close to that of a third world country.

I've taught in actual third world countries and I've taught in America. No, not even close. Where I live, every single room is equipped with a SMART/Promethean Board, every teacher has a laptop or tablet device. Rooms are spacious and well-equipped. Most children do not want for food and get to go home and play or relax instead of go to work (MOST, not all - I know there are children where this is not the case). We have the best environment to teach in the whole world, but we do need to work on teacher development and the whole ridiculous testing situation. By no means are we close to a third world country.

However, our children and parent's involvement/behavior is abysmal and that alone makes me prefer teaching in third world countries to America - where people treat each other with respect instead of acting like entitled brats (parents AND children). It's come down to the point that about half of teaching is just paperwork and test preparation, not teaching. Write to your representatives, tutor, or get involved if you think education is so far down in the pits.