WW, Agi or Crit gemming?

[WonderPoop]

Hey all, I've seen multiple threads over this topic throughout the forums of different websites. I know there are a ton of great WW's here on mmo-champ, and I would like a diffenitive answer to the title question.

Whenever I sim my WW (545 ilvl with garbage weapons) I get a value of agi being more that double the value of crit. Then I talk to WW friends in other guilds and they say to gem crit. What do you guys personally do and why? Do you use chi brew or ascension? What is your haste at?

Any info would be great, because theorycrafting is not my strong suit.

[Deleted]

I'm no where the greatest ww in either skill or gear, but I am parsing top 150 in a couple of soo fights, whilst in mostly tot normal gear.
I've followed the agility gemming in pure an agility crit/ hit in hybrid. Im currently running at 11k crit, just under 7k haste and 5.5k mastery with ascension.

I'm also aware that agility is 2X as valuable as crit, it provides ap as well as crit chance.
Hope this helps

[Pandimus]

Pandiimus Kael'thas - http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...iimus/advanced

Red slots- Pure Agi this tier because you dont need the stat inflation with the 320 mastey/crit gems for the roro since its obsolete
yellow- agi/crit helps you follow the socket bonuses which usualy are 120,180,60+ the more agi the better
Dont gem haste because you get enough from your gear anymore would not be beneficial.

Stats
4985 Mastery = 40.77% Around 50ish% with raid buff and i find that is the sweet spot for me.
9238 Haste
13856 Crit = 50.10%

Personally i run Ascension because its the play style that i prefer it feel its less restrictive. So far from the fights that i attempted i have been above 200k+ to 280k. i could be completely wrong its just my opinion but i just have been tearing SoO up.

[Eunya]

Definitely agility over crit for gems. I don't see any secondary being 2x more valuable than agility for 5.4 so yup.

Currently I am going Chi Brew, with about 7k haste.

I've tried going ascension with 9k haste thereabouts this week but I've gotten a pretty obvious dps decline for non RJW fights thus far, so will be reverting tonight. With heavy aoe fights like galakras or spoils, high haste with ascension builds will and should definitely pull ahead as usage of RJW together with other skills becomes smoother with higher energy regen. For single target dps, I'm not too sure.

Eunya - Frostmourne (Sorry can't link due to low post count but should be pretty easy to armory)

[Callimonk]

Red slots = agi
Orange = agi + crit or agi + haste if you are having energy issues, unless the socket bonus is not worth it, in which case gem agi.

The gem socket isn't worth it if it is less than +120 secondary, or is not a +agi bonus.

[WonderPoop]

Thanks for the replies, I guess ill go fully regem, as I was crit gemmed. I run 9k haste with Chi Brew, and on single target fights I am usually fair on energy. I see some monks (like Eunya) who run as little as 7k haste with chi brew... but how?

Also, on fights with a lust at the start how do you open using your chi brews? Thanks for all the info guys, really helps.

[Swankyy]

Thanks for the replies, I guess ill go fully regem, as I was crit gemmed. I run 9k haste with Chi Brew, and on single target fights I am usually fair on energy. I see some monks (like Eunya) who run as little as 7k haste with chi brew... but how?

Also, on fights with a lust at the start how do you open using your chi brews? Thanks for all the info guys, really helps.

I run with 7.5k Haste with Chi Brew. I think 9k is way too much to have. I can even probably drop down to 7k without noticing a slight in my energy regeneration.

As for fights involving Chi Brew, I usually drop all my energy, and at the moment I am out of energy to Jab/BoK (so, 1 =< chi) I use my brews and that should get me to 10 TEB stacks.

Edit: And remember, we'll never beat a burst class (ie Enh Shaman) in the initial burst phase, but we will definitely equalize out by the end of most fights

[WonderPoop]

I run with 7.5k Haste with Chi Brew. I think 9k is way too much to have. I can even probably drop down to 7k without noticing a slight in my energy regeneration.

As for fights involving Chi Brew, I usually drop all my energy, and at the moment I am out of energy to Jab/BoK (so, 1 =< chi) I use my brews and that should get me to 10 TEB stacks.

Edit: And remember, we'll never beat a burst class (ie Enh Shaman) in the initial burst phase, but we will definitely equalize out by the end of most fights

I think I'm relying too much on target dummy numbers for my testing. On a SoO fight I won't be on the boss full time, esp on fights like norushen or seigecrafter. Ill lower my haste for my next raid to 7.5-8k and see where I stand on energy. Thanks for the info I appreciate it.

[Frogged]

Gem Agility. Use Chi Brew. Currently at 9500 Haste.

[Serendepityz]

^ essentially same build

[Joeygiggles]

Im noticing from askmrrobot that they suggest pure crit gems for yellows. I usually don't follow the suggestions for gemming on that site usually just for reforging. Has anyone actually gone and gemmed pure crit at all?

[Cereal Killer]

I still rock over 9k Haste as well. Crit is a great follow-up though, imo. Gem Agi, yeah.

[Eunya]

Thanks for the replies, I guess ill go fully regem, as I was crit gemmed. I run 9k haste with Chi Brew, and on single target fights I am usually fair on energy. I see some monks (like Eunya) who run as little as 7k haste with chi brew... but how?

Also, on fights with a lust at the start how do you open using your chi brews? Thanks for all the info guys, really helps.

There are alot of fights with movement involved like dark shamans etc where 7k haste should be sufficient. For AOE fights, i usually go ascension for energy regen to smooth out RJW usage without reforging.

If you are looking at keeping up RJW with your normal rotation then yea 7k is probably insufficient I would feel. Just try it out see what haste level you like, I guess its a personal thing. If you are comfortable with weaving more FoFs,chi waves in between(ie 5.1,5.2) and have an AOC equipped with energizing brew cd reduced and with some downtime, lower haste is definitely doable. If you prefer the 5.3 style of spamming Boks with less downtime, higher haste would feel more comfortable.

Another thing is I have a flex AOC equipped so it does considerably lower my haste level to obtain comfortable energy/sec gains. I would presume if I have a TED I would require much higher haste (1-2k more) to get the equivalent energy regen.

With regards to chi brew openings, I usually start with Expel Harm while running towards the boss , Chi Brew , RSK , Chi Brew, Tiger Palm , BoK. I use my tigereye brew much later, at the 15th sec of the AOC proc (Dextrous) about 5-8secs into the fight with usually 6-8 Tigereye stacks up by then. I believe other monks have more preferable and optimized openings though. So take mine with a grain of salt.

[Phtes]

Currently I'm matching sockets although others argue against it, I found my numbers actually dropped when I went straight agility gems. Reds = Agi, Yellow = Agi/Crit, Blue = Crit/Hit.
At the moment my stats looke like this at 531 ilvl
13002 Crit Rating
6429 Haste
2562 Mastery

I'm not the best geared but I am 2nd / 3rd on all fights for the melee pulling around 200k+ which i'd say is decent for my item level. I run Chi Brew / Xuen and never bother to grab RJW. The reason for this is I feel it pads meters. On fights like Galakras I'm generally in the tower group and Xuen is great for killing the sub-bosses faster, and its more beneficial on the phase 2 burn, however this is debated among the community and the idea of "Padding vs useful damage".

Open is generally at 2 seconds on pull pre-pot, cast Xuen while running in, double chi brew then Tiger Palm and RSK into Jab rotation. From what I have always known you should never RSK on the opener till you tiger palm, although I could be wrong? Regardless I seem to pull great numbers for my gear and the times I have tried Agi gemming or haste builds my DPS took drastic drops even though I never haste capped except for during lust.

[Eunya]

Currently I'm matching sockets although others argue against it, I found my numbers actually dropped when I went straight agility gems. Reds = Agi, Yellow = Agi/Crit, Blue = Crit/Hit.
At the moment my stats looke like this at 531 ilvl
13002 Crit Rating
6429 Haste
2562 Mastery

I'm not the best geared but I am 2nd / 3rd on all fights for the melee pulling around 200k+ which i'd say is decent for my item level. I run Chi Brew / Xuen and never bother to grab RJW. The reason for this is I feel it pads meters. On fights like Galakras I'm generally in the tower group and Xuen is great for killing the sub-bosses faster, and its more beneficial on the phase 2 burn, however this is debated among the community and the idea of "Padding vs useful damage".

Open is generally at 2 seconds on pull pre-pot, cast Xuen while running in, double chi brew then Tiger Palm and RSK into Jab rotation. From what I have always known you should never RSK on the opener till you tiger palm, although I could be wrong? Regardless I seem to pull great numbers for my gear and the times I have tried Agi gemming or haste builds my DPS took drastic drops even though I never haste capped except for during lust.

Yup that's what I usually do with regards to gemming with the exception of blue gems. I go agility + hit instead. I don't think anyone is advocating straight up agility in ALL sockets regardless, what we mean is in cases where u choose 320 of a secondary or 160 agility, take the agility since it is more than twice as valuable as the closest secondary.

With regards to the opening RSK over tiger palm, you are generally correct. It's just a bad habit I have as I personally prioritize RSK off cooldown over tiger power dropping off especially for bosses I have low uptime on for the normal rotation. But it should be rather insignificant (rsk before tigee palm or vice versa) over the course of the fight I feel.

[Kuja]

Mr Robot suggests me to change 2493 agility into 6% crit. It would involve removing all pure agi gems and switching them to agi/crit and pure crit gems in yellows and prisms.

Think it would be worth it?

[Babylonius]

Mr Robot suggests me to change 2493 agility into 6% crit. It would involve removing all pure agi gems and switching them to agi/crit and pure crit gems in yellows and prisms.

Think it would be worth it?

If AMR is suggesting this, then change the stat weights so that Agility is 0.01 above Crit x2. Agi should be on every gem in one way or another.

[unlightable]

What weights did you fed to AMR? Defaults are screwed, you know. You should ensure that agi is worth 2++ times more than hase and crit.

[Kuja]

Agi is at 4.95
Crit is 2.5

Think it's the default D:

[Babylonius]

Agi is at 4.95
Crit is 2.5

Think it's the default D:

Thats the problem. I personally use SimCraft to come up with my weights, then feed them to AMR and add the haste cap I want.