1. #1

    Retribution (5.4): Which trinkets to use?

    Hi all.

    I have a question that has been nagging me since 5.4. I have big doubts in regard to which of my available trinkets that I should use together. I will start by listing the ones that I have at my disposal as of this writing.

    I have already done all the searching that I can, but I have failed to find any discussions helping me with an answer.

    - 535 Alacrity of Xuen
    - 528 Fusion-Fire Core
    - 522 Brutal Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault
    - 522 Spark of Zandalar
    - 502 Fabled Feather of Ji-Kun

    AskMrRobot:
    I use AskMrRobot for gear optimization, and it is telling me to use a combination of Alacrity of Xuen + Brutal Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault.

    MaxDPS.com:
    Now, this site is ranking even the 502 version of Fabled Feather of Ji-Kun above all of the other trinkets.

    So I need some help deciding. Does anyone have any thoughts and views on this? Am I missing something?

    I have done some very basic "hitting training dummy" with various setups, and from a very unscientific 5-min approach, it would actually seem that Brutal Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault + Fabled Feather of Ji-Kun leaves me with a slightly better DPS.

    Any help is deeply appreciated.

  2. #2
    Never use maxdps! Especially with current trinkets they are inaccurate because they use stat weights. Half the SoO trinkets have special effects which cannot be statted.
    Because I want to say this every single day but don't want it to get a drag:
    1) The ingame store will only sell timesaver items. It won't affect balance.
    2) No, getting to 100 in half the time isn't pay2win. raids don't start until the second week, everyone has time to get there.
    4) getting charms faster is also not pay2win. getting those is easy, but not everyone has the time or want for dailies.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by nzall View Post
    Never use maxdps! Especially with current trinkets they are inaccurate because they use stat weights. Half the SoO trinkets have special effects which cannot be statted.
    Thanks for the input. I have also been very hesitant about that site. It seems somewhat simplified and unsubstantiated, the stuff shown there. Up until now, I have felt very confident in AskMrRobot (AMR). At least for gemming and reforging inspiration/optimization.

    I just don't know how well AMR regards trinkets with their unique effect and internal cooldowns. So I am for once not certain that I can blindly follow its suggestions.

  4. #4
    I would think the haste on trinkets would very important but not sure of the numbers of base haste vs. proc strength.
    "The world needs anger. The world often continues to allow evil to exist because it isn't angry enough."
    -Bede Jarrett (historian)

  5. #5
    Never use training dummies to test whether a certain gear set (or talent, glyph, etc) is an upgrade. Unless you have an entire raid with you to debuff it and buff you, you aren't going to get the true value of an upgrade. They are of course good for getting your rotation/priority system nailed though.

    Are you able to use SimulationCraft at all? If so, you might want to see what it says and how that compared to AMR, although it likely won't give you accurate info on cleave effects like the Fusion Fire-Core unless you specifically tell it you have multiple targets.

    If the Brutal Talisman doesn't put you over expertise cap, using it and Alacrity of Xuen would probably be best on a single target fight because giving boosts to two different stats tends to be more powerful than simply giving a double boost to one stat. You'll likely notice this effect during your opening CD pops, unless you already have so much haste that it puts you over the soft cap of 50% at 21250 haste. If you're going past that then you'll likely be better off with other effects.
    Quote Originally Posted by Everything Nice View Post
    Noodles and chocolate milk is the breakfast of Champions.
    Super Brony Friendfinder

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope View Post
    Never use training dummies to test whether a certain gear set (or talent, glyph, etc) is an upgrade. Unless you have an entire raid with you to debuff it and buff you, you aren't going to get the true value of an upgrade. They are of course good for getting your rotation/priority system nailed though.

    Are you able to use SimulationCraft at all? If so, you might want to see what it says and how that compared to AMR, although it likely won't give you accurate info on cleave effects like the Fusion Fire-Core unless you specifically tell it you have multiple targets.

    If the Brutal Talisman doesn't put you over expertise cap, using it and Alacrity of Xuen would probably be best on a single target fight because giving boosts to two different stats tends to be more powerful than simply giving a double boost to one stat. You'll likely notice this effect during your opening CD pops, unless you already have so much haste that it puts you over the soft cap of 50% at 21250 haste. If you're going past that then you'll likely be better off with other effects.
    we're not going for a 50% cap, but for a 40% cap and everything into mastery after that, especially with 4PT16.
    Because I want to say this every single day but don't want it to get a drag:
    1) The ingame store will only sell timesaver items. It won't affect balance.
    2) No, getting to 100 in half the time isn't pay2win. raids don't start until the second week, everyone has time to get there.
    4) getting charms faster is also not pay2win. getting those is easy, but not everyone has the time or want for dailies.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by nzall View Post
    we're not going for a 50% cap, but for a 40% cap and everything into mastery after that, especially with 4PT16.
    40%? Could you explain that breakpoint to me?
    Quote Originally Posted by Everything Nice View Post
    Noodles and chocolate milk is the breakfast of Champions.
    Super Brony Friendfinder

  8. #8
    just to point out some horrors that is maxDPS:

    1) they think that the caster legendary cloak is better than anything but the norushen normal and up cloaks;
    2) they don't support warforged and thunderforged;
    3) they tell you to gem reverberating meta (not legendary).
    4) they don't even mention the STR food as BiS;
    5) they don't even mention the 5.4 trinkets yet;
    6) they use simcraft 520-1 to calculate their stat weights (which basically is like 2 dozen versions old)
    7) they have a horrible rotation that does not take into account your gear.
    and the kicker...
    8 ) because they are overestimating the value of hit and expertise, they say you should gem hit and expertise in all sockets.

    Anyone who uses MaxDPS as anything other than to show how clueless people can be deserves to be kicked from their raid and guild and be made the laughing stock of the server.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope View Post
    40%? Could you explain that breakpoint to me?
    basically, with the 4PT16 involved, you're global locked at 40% haste. at that point, you'll be dropping exorcism from your rotation (which is your weakest move) almost entirely, use divine storm procs during downtime, spec Divine Purpose and fill nearly every global with a mastery move, which means your mastery becomes far more potent, because more of your damage is affected by it. 40% to 50% means that you just have more global clashes, so you'd have to drop those exorcisms anyway. and because the 2P triggers from art of war procs (i.e. you don't need to consume them), you don't lose that either.

    another thing is that 10% haste translates to almost 20% mastery. So while you don't really lose anything by dropping that haste, you gain a fair amount by pumping that haste into mastery.
    Because I want to say this every single day but don't want it to get a drag:
    1) The ingame store will only sell timesaver items. It won't affect balance.
    2) No, getting to 100 in half the time isn't pay2win. raids don't start until the second week, everyone has time to get there.
    4) getting charms faster is also not pay2win. getting those is easy, but not everyone has the time or want for dailies.

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