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  1. #1
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    2nd Wing LFR tuning is interesting

    I usually avoid the first week of a new wing, but I don't think I've seen this many somewhat dreary wipes before.

    Even with DBM there is really not that much guidance in what to do and of course there are lots of people sans DBM.

  2. #2
    Pit Lord Cyrops's Avatar
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    I really enjoyed the difficulty of 2nd wing LFR. My stats:
    1st boss one shot
    2nd boss one wipe
    3rd boss 3 wipes
    4th boss 4 wipes (we hit enrage one try lol)
    5 wipes on trash total
    Over all spent 2h in it.

  3. #3
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    I don't know whether it will sort itself out or whether we will see (more) nerfs later in the week.

    But I guess we'll know pretty soon.

    Blizzard needs to figure out a better way to immersively describe encounters. Dungeon Journal is a terrible way to learn about an encounter (it's a useful way to learn a detail about an ability). I'm opposed to watching videos and reading "strats" as a player who is interested in the immersion of the game.

    But you wind up in these encounters and the only way you can figure them out from the actual experience is to mouseover debuffs, look at the combat log, et cetera.

    Not very satisfying either.

  4. #4
    How many times did you wipe then? I heard the same about the first wing but I only wiped once in there.

  5. #5
    Mechagnome Zatetic's Avatar
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    I'll never do lfr past immerseus this tier. I did 2nd wing testing on the ptr with (presumably) people who wanted to be there and it was a constant wipe fest. Nazgrim had so many ravagers up from people blasting through defensive stance for example. So I imagine it is quite messy with your run of the mill less dedicated players who havent downloaded PTR.

  6. #6
    Mechagnome
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    One of my guildies was running the second wing of SoO LFR and over the course of the run gained 27 Determination stacks. I was roflcoptering all the way to the bank. The run took 5.5 hours total.
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  7. #7
    Pit Lord Cyrops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsuna View Post
    One of my guildies was running the second wing of SoO LFR and over the course of the run gained 27 Determination stacks. I was roflcoptering all the way to the bank. The run took 5.5 hours total.
    How high can determination stack on single boss? Someone said 10 is cap?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrops View Post
    How high can determination stack on single boss? Someone said 10 is cap?
    yes, 10 is cap per boss

  9. #9
    Bloodsail Admiral Sarix's Avatar
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    Did they nerf nazgrim's hp? After a wipe he just kinda lost like 50m and as far as I know the wipe buff doesn't nerf the boss.
    Last edited by Sarix; 2013-09-25 at 07:11 AM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsuna View Post
    One of my guildies was running the second wing of SoO LFR and over the course of the run gained 27 Determination stacks. I was roflcoptering all the way to the bank. The run took 5.5 hours total.
    And then they say LFR is for people who don't have enough time for organized raiding . I've never raided 5,5 hours in one sitting in the years that I've raided.

  11. #11
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    When I queue for the first wing I usually wind up on Sha with 1-2 stacks of determination. Most of the first wing is going with at most one wipe per boss aside from that. (Seeing Norushen with 2-3 stacks of determination makes me puzzled but whatever.)

    We downed Nazgrim with 5 or 6 stacks of determination. I joined in the middle of that. The first two wipes we didn't make the enrage (not even all that close). The last time, someone popped lust during zerk stance and I guess the lights came on and we killed him fairly easily (with a 30% buff or whatever ... bwahahaha).

    Requeued and got Galrakas, and I left after 3 pretty aimless 10+ minute wipes. I might give it another go after a glass or two of wine.

    I really dislike fights where the only hard part comes after a bunch of boring adds, so just like with Madness you have to slog through 10 minutes of bullshit to get to the point where it actually matters whether people understand a couple of important things about the fight, then you wipe, and do it all over again. Gyah.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarix View Post
    Did they nerf nazgrim's hp? After a wipe he just kinda lost 30m and as far as I know the wipe buff doesn't nerf the boss.
    I don't know. Nazgrim's enrage timer needs another 3-5 minutes on it in my opinion, or he needs to lose a lot of health. The adds seem pretty hard (or maybe impossible) to round up and cleave so a disorganized group really has its hands full trying to kill them. I'm not sure. It's the first I've seen him so maybe there are some decent strategies for sorting the encounter out better in LFR.

  12. #12
    Pit Lord Cyrops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    When I queue for the first wing I usually wind up on Sha with 1-2 stacks of determination. Most of the first wing is going with at most one wipe per boss aside from that. (Seeing Norushen with 2-3 stacks of determination makes me puzzled but whatever.)

    We downed Nazgrim with 5 or 6 stacks of determination. I joined in the middle of that. The first two wipes we didn't make the enrage (not even all that close). The last time, someone popped lust during zerk stance and I guess the lights came on and we killed him fairly easily (with a 30% buff or whatever ... bwahahaha).

    Requeued and got Galrakas, and I left after 3 pretty aimless 10+ minute wipes. I might give it another go after a glass or two of wine.

    I really dislike fights where the only hard part comes after a bunch of boring adds, so just like with Madness you have to slog through 10 minutes of bullshit to get to the point where it actually matters whether people understand a couple of important things about the fight, then you wipe, and do it all over again. Gyah.

    - - - Updated - - -


    I don't know. Nazgrim's enrage timer needs another 3-5 minutes on it in my opinion, or he needs to lose a lot of health. The adds seem pretty hard (or maybe impossible) to round up and cleave so a disorganized group really has its hands full trying to kill them. I'm not sure. It's the first I've seen him so maybe there are some decent strategies for sorting the encounter out better in LFR.
    We killed Galakras on first try, but it only happened because me and one healer knew what to do (go into towers and use canons) everyone else was pretty clueless and would have wiped for hours.
    For Nazgrim, our tanks were halfbrained at the best, there was no tanking done on adds at all. We killed the adds one by one with random people tanking/kiting. But with 4 stacks they went down fast and lust on zerk stance helped as well. Besides with 4 stacks people were able to survive shockwave, is it? We were losing 2-3 on first shockave at first.

  13. #13
    I usually never run LFR the first week...but was bored this afternoon, so figured why not. My run that began at 12:30 went until 4:15. Yes, almost 4 hours....it was bad.

    Galakras - 2 shot

    Iron Juggernaut - 2 shot

    Dark Shaman - wiped 3 times on just the trash alone, and yet still didn't clear all of it when the tanks decided to pull the bosses. Wiped almost instantly. We got this boss down after 4 wipes.

    Nazgrim - wiped 7 times. Hit enrage 2nd, 4th, 5th try, other tries people ended up just dying due to not moving out of the way of axes or turning their backs to the assassins OR not dispelling. Literally more than half the raid group dead within the first couple of minutes. Healers were doing pretty well overall (minus the dispelling, I think we had one person dispelling), just couldn't keep stupid alive when they decided to not move out of the way from axes/mobs

    Mind you, the fights were each explained prior to pulls, including dark shaman (clearing trash before pulling boss), people just wouldn't listen. We even had someone retyping the explanations in Spanish/Portuguese for the players that couldn't understand English.

    DPS was super low, especially on Dark Shaman and Nazgrim. We had people pulling below 7k dps (and no, they were not healers). The group did try to help the low dps players by offering some advice. They weren't being snarky about it either, they were actually being very nice. Some players took the advice and damage improved somewhat, the others just went on their merry way continuing to do whatever it was they were doing (probably afking as much as they could).

    If it wouldn't have been for the stacks of determination we had on Nazgrim, I think we probably would have been in there much much longer than what we were. We still came within a couple of seconds hitting enrage on that kill.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrops View Post
    We killed Galakras on first try, but it only happened because me and one healer knew what to do (go into towers and use canons) everyone else was pretty clueless and would have wiped for hours.
    For Nazgrim, our tanks were halfbrained at the best, there was no tanking done on adds at all. We killed the adds one by one with random people tanking/kiting. But with 4 stacks they went down fast and lust on zerk stance helped as well. Besides with 4 stacks people were able to survive shockwave, is it? We were losing 2-3 on first shockave at first.
    I don't know about Shockwave at first ... I joined at 2-3 stacks. We had hardly anyone dying during the encounter until enrage. However Nazgrim wasn't taking enough damage.

    Nazgrim LFR is kind of a fun encounter. I wish the enrage timer wasn't there at all. It would give people a better chance to figure it out without trivializing it.

    Galakras in LFR looks like it might be a mess though. Not sure. Kind of the worst parts of Ji-Kun and Madness combined.

  15. #15
    Pit Lord Cyrops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madisyn View Post
    We had people pulling below 7k dps (and no, they were not healers).
    I had people doing sub 30k with 3 determination stacks :|

  16. #16
    Warchief Szemere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madisyn View Post
    I usually never run LFR the first week...but was bored this afternoon, so figured why not. My run that began at 12:30 went until 4:15. Yes, almost 4 hours....it was bad.

    Galakras - 2 shot

    Iron Juggernaut - 2 shot

    Dark Shaman - wiped 3 times on just the trash alone, and yet still didn't clear all of it when the tanks decided to pull the bosses. Wiped almost instantly. We got this boss down after 4 wipes.

    Nazgrim - wiped 7 times. Hit enrage 2nd, 4th, 5th try, other tries people ended up just dying due to not moving out of the way of axes or turning their backs to the assassins OR not dispelling. Literally more than half the raid group dead within the first couple of minutes. Healers were doing pretty well overall (minus the dispelling, I think we had one person dispelling), just couldn't keep stupid alive when they decided to not move out of the way from axes/mobs

    Mind you, the fights were each explained prior to pulls, including dark shaman (clearing trash before pulling boss), people just wouldn't listen. We even had someone retyping the explanations in Spanish/Portuguese for the players that couldn't understand English.

    DPS was super low, especially on Dark Shaman and Nazgrim. We had people pulling below 7k dps (and no, they were not healers). The group did try to help the low dps players by offering some advice. They weren't being snarky about it either, they were actually being very nice. Some players took the advice and damage improved somewhat, the others just went on their merry way continuing to do whatever it was they were doing (probably afking as much as they could).

    If it wouldn't have been for the stacks of determination we had on Nazgrim, I think we probably would have been in there much much longer than what we were. We still came within a couple of seconds hitting enrage on that kill.
    Not trying to be mean here... But if someone pulls under 10k DPS in any gear that has the correct primary stats on it and requires level 90, he deserves to be kicked, because even simply spamming your filler spell will net you so much more than that. Hell, I bet that if I took my keyboard, put it on the ground, and just put my foot on the general area that my keybinds are in, I'd be able to pull over 10k in T14 LFR gear.

    This isn't even me bashing bad players for not doing good DPS: Those guys must have been AFKing 100%... And they probably even had determination buff.

    TLDR: There is no way in hell you can do under 10k DPS if you're not AFK for the majority of the fight, I hope you were exaggerating.
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  17. #17
    Are all of you americans ? because LFR part 2 havent been activated on some eu servers, cant speak for all.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Szemere View Post
    Not trying to be mean here... But if someone pulls under 10k DPS in any gear that has the correct primary stats on it and requires level 90, he deserves to be kicked, because even simply spamming your filler spell will net you so much more than that. Hell, I bet that if I took my keyboard, put it on the ground, and just put my foot on the general area that my keybinds are in, I'd be able to pull over 10k in T14 LFR gear.

    This isn't even me bashing bad players for not doing good DPS: Those guys must have been AFKing 100%... And they probably even had determination buff.

    TLDR: There is no way in hell you can do under 10k DPS if you're not AFK for the majority of the fight, I hope you were exaggerating.
    I really wish I were exaggerating, but sadly, I'm not. We had 2 locks, a spriest, and 2 boomies doing roughly 7k. Then a kitty and rogue doing right at 10k. The kitty's excuse was that he was trying, but was having to move out of the way of too much stuff.

    The spriest was only using mind flay and standing there shielding himself the rest of the time. One of the locks and both boomies (all from the same guild) were afk during the fights. They would cast a spell every once and awhile, then you would see them just stand there doing nothing.

    We did try to kick them on several occasions, but for whatever reason the kicks wouldn't go through and the not so bright tanks would just end up pulling because they were impatient.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrops View Post
    I had people doing sub 30k with 3 determination stacks :|
    I don't know what might be up with that. It might be people who are partly AFK or it might be people who just have major problems switching targets. It might be a pally who zoned in in healing gear in ret spec. Who knows. There are many reasons.

    I'm not a big fan of making anything in LFR a DPS race of any kind, because that is only going to lead to turmoil and misery.

  20. #20
    Pit Lord Cyrops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    Are all of you americans ? because LFR part 2 havent been activated on some eu servers, cant speak for all.
    The 2nd wing activates after server maintenance AND after you do 1st wing after servers are back up.
    You can look at my location where I play

    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    I don't know what might be up with that. It might be people who are partly AFK or it might be people who just have major problems switching targets. It might be a pally who zoned in in healing gear in ret spec. Who knows. There are many reasons.

    I'm not a big fan of making anything in LFR a DPS race of any kind, because that is only going to lead to turmoil and misery.
    Nah it was a lock, I look at class colors in Skada to quickly judge DPS.

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