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  1. #41
    after switching back to combat this tier, I feel like I have the hang of it again after a full raiding week with it. Beating out the muta rogues in my raid on single target fights - norushen, galakras burn phase.

    If you are thinking of switching make sure you hang onto T15 4 piece, all 5 pieces are best as then you can just use any SoO off spec piece to maximize dps. You definitely need the AoC trinket first before switching, and then a Seismic Bore for MH if you can get your hands on one. Tell your monks to take one of the other 6 agi one-handers in the instance. Unless of course you can get a WF weapon then grab that. But the bore is glorious.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Boomslang View Post
    You definitely need the AoC trinket first before switching, and then a Seismic Bore for MH if you can get your hands on one.
    Generally, this is true, but it depends on your luck. I went into SoO with a 530 (2/2 upgraded) Maegera's fang and 483 raidfinder spiritsever (got some 502 raidfinder daggers but they weren't as good as a 483 with a sha gem). I had a 535 zeeg's sitting in my bank that no one wanted, so when Seismic Bore dropped for us, the 31 ilvl boost for MH and 60 ilvl boost for OH made combat better even without AoC. I *STILL* don't have one, but I'm competing with our other dps even with a slightly lower ilvl. I've even ranked on almost every fight so far.

    Point being, AoC is very nice to have, but not a requirement to go combat if your combat weapons are already better. Generally speaking you should play the spec you have the best weapons for.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Galufio View Post
    KS however still kills you Thok and Garrosh Annihilates say hi
    how can he kill you with anihilate? he casts it in front of him, whereas ks allways attacks from behind. unless you use that minor glyph lol, but that shouldnt be a problem

  4. #44
    Should be the same for Thok, though it's riskier.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Kulestu View Post
    Should be the same for Thok, though it's riskier.
    Killing Spree on Thok P2 is not a problem - just don't do it while he's getting ready to fixate the next target. It's actually a good way to keep up when the Blood Frenzy stacks get high and you're not on Jailor duty.

    EDIT: From yesterday's clear I can confirm that the recent Thok changes has made KS (once again) a liability. Prior to this maintenance you could safely KS while he was fixating, because, you know, it attacks *from behind*. But apparently Thok has developed 360 degree jaws.
    Last edited by Lachtobi; 2013-09-27 at 12:25 PM.
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  6. #46
    Mechagnome -Raer-'s Avatar
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    Coined a HWF AoC last night, during Galakras progression I was leagues ahead of one of my fellow Rogues; competing with our monk for top aoe/cleave. Ran out of time for progression unfortunately (16 hours a week @.@). Will see how it plays out with normal farm tonight :3

  7. #47
    It could just be RNG, but Combat feels really strong for me. On Iron Juggernaut, Malkorok, and Seigecrafter, I finished about 40k over what Shadowcraft predicted.
    I am really hoping to get an AoC next week. That should make things even better.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feindy View Post
    how can he kill you with anihilate? he casts it in front of him, whereas ks allways attacks from behind. unless you use that minor glyph lol, but that shouldnt be a problem
    Nope, I don't use that glyph. Annihilate still killed me during KS, maybe bad luck idk
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  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    It could just be RNG, but Combat feels really strong for me. On Iron Juggernaut, Malkorok, and Seigecrafter, I finished about 40k over what Shadowcraft predicted.
    I am really hoping to get an AoC next week. That should make things even better.
    Shadowcraft's "DPS" number isn't really a good estimation, as has been said many, many times. It actually over-values combat (unless you tweak the settings to create more realistic delays), so if you were beating it by a large margin, you either changed some setting or got amazing RNG. It just worked out that it valued assassination quite close to real world fights, but it's really a large amount off for combat, and the jury is still out for sub. You should think of that number more like a gearscore for that spec.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by zurm View Post
    Shadowcraft's "DPS" number isn't really a good estimation, as has been said many, many times. It actually over-values combat (unless you tweak the settings to create more realistic delays), so if you were beating it by a large margin, you either changed some setting or got amazing RNG. It just worked out that it valued assassination quite close to real world fights, but it's really a large amount off for combat, and the jury is still out for sub. You should think of that number more like a gearscore for that spec.
    That's less true now. It was more true when none of the high-energy uptimes were manageable with t15 4set.

  11. #51
    Tonight I remembered one reason I dislike Combat - Killing Spree.

    If you have the glyph and use it just before Garrosh teleports you to the other room, you get teleported back to Orgrimmar when Killing Spree ends. Kind of killed my parse, not having anything to dps for close to 30 seconds.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    Tonight I remembered one reason I dislike Combat - Killing Spree.

    If you have the glyph and use it just before Garrosh teleports you to the other room, you get teleported back to Orgrimmar when Killing Spree ends. Kind of killed my parse, not having anything to dps for close to 30 seconds.
    LOL. That sucks, more blzzard fails on killing spree design. I would prob use sub on that fight anyway, if you have the weaps.

    In regards to holding on to t15 4pc, roughly according to shadowcraft with my current gear, its a 20k dps gain to use Heroic 4 set, using shoulders as off piece. it doesnt seem like much . I know shadowcraft is not a literal representation, but I think it still shows just how insane the t15 4pc is even in its heavily nerfed incarnation.

  13. #53
    That's because they nerfed the part that was strong for Sin and Sub, which was the large energy reduction. Combat's major part of the setbonus is the GCD reduction with SB up, as you typically pop SB with AR and don't have energy issues.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkDath View Post
    LOL. That sucks, more blzzard fails on killing spree design. I would prob use sub on that fight anyway, if you have the weaps.

    In regards to holding on to t15 4pc, roughly according to shadowcraft with my current gear, its a 20k dps gain to use Heroic 4 set, using shoulders as off piece. it doesnt seem like much . I know shadowcraft is not a literal representation, but I think it still shows just how insane the t15 4pc is even in its heavily nerfed incarnation.

    Why would you go sub for that fight? You can do dickswing DPS in phase 1 as combat, and then do really high ST for the rest of the fight since you're pretty much just tunneling garrosh. The tier 15 is still near BiS as the reason it's so good for combat is the GCD reduction, you go down to a 0.5 sec GCD with AR / SB up, the energy cost nerf is pretty much irrelevant as combat since you use AR and Shadow Blades together
    Last edited by Senftw; 2013-10-02 at 07:46 AM.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachtobi View Post
    1) Pace of Play. Blizzard stated that combat was getting too spammy so they increased the cost of SS to 50 energy. What they failed to factor in was AoC, which - combined with T15 4P - makes it a pretty intense spec during burst phases. And seeing as that trinket now gives you close to 30% uptime on AR/SB, you don't have time to plan ahead which abilities to use next, but often simply react to what the CP bar tells you. And be warned: this incidentally makes it impossible to play combat well with a latency above 150.
    Ah good old Combat vs oceanic ping. Reminds me of DS sigh.
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  16. #56
    I play on about 150-170ms, it is pretty manageable under lust/AR+SB, as long as you dont button mash, just getting the timing on keypresses right. but I wouldn't like to try on 300ms+

    @Hatred - I was thinking more of H garrosh, but I wont be dealing with that for a long time ;p, I just think that the higher ST of Sub when we can straight tunnel would be better, but I do like this idea of dickswing cleave dps in p1. I know why 4 set t15 is so OP, I was annoyed that it is still so strong.

  17. #57
    Mechagnome Monoxyde's Avatar
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    my guilds primary rogue prefers and usually plays combat. while he occasionally switches to whatever is doing the most dps i much prefer that he stays combat. it has never held the group back, and from my experience happy raiders perform better for longer. just play what you like, if you do it well. anyone who has anything to say about your chosen spec can fuck off.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Aspectsftw View Post
    Why would you go sub for that fight? You can do dickswing DPS in phase 1 as combat, and then do really high ST for the rest of the fight since you're pretty much just tunneling garrosh. The tier 15 is still near BiS as the reason it's so good for combat is the GCD reduction, you go down to a 0.5 sec GCD with AR / SB up, the energy cost nerf is pretty much irrelevant as combat since you use AR and Shadow Blades together
    You actually get a 0.7 CD during AR and Shadow Blades due to AR glyph not being there anymore. And I can see why someone would want to go sub, aoe portions of the fights are trivial (intermissions, phase 1), but single target damage is much more valuable. Heck, on our kill yesterday we only had one empowered corruption cast due to the boss being at ~20-25% after the second intermission.
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  19. #59
    Problem with combat is its the same spec as it was in 2005.Spam sinister strike all day long.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Fluorescent0 View Post
    You actually get a 0.7 CD during AR and Shadow Blades due to AR glyph not being there anymore. And I can see why someone would want to go sub, aoe portions of the fights are trivial (intermissions, phase 1), but single target damage is much more valuable. Heck, on our kill yesterday we only had one empowered corruption cast due to the boss being at ~20-25% after the second intermission.
    IIRC they just baked it into AR.

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