Enraged Regen vs. Second Wind

[Dhiem]

I'm seeing a lot of protection warriors, even Sco from Method according to Icy-veins, going Second Wind... and this really confuses me. My guild is 6 bosses into SoO and I'm yet to see a situation where I want to use Second Wind OVER Enraged Regen or Impending Victory for that matter. It seems to me that if you get to that point, 35% health when it starts to kick in, that you've done something wrong along the way. Am I missing something here?
I did a flex raid earlier on my priest alt and the warrior tank survived the Demo mobs pull in between Dark Shaman and Nazgrim and he swore up and down that Second Wind is infinitely superior to anything else in the tier. He was also using the JiKun trinket that procs at 35% health. This again, I don't quite understand: why you'd bank on a certain situation to occur that puts you in a really bad spot. I personally prefer Enraged Regeneration as it allows me to pick my spots.. as opposed to hover around 30-35% health.
Can someone else offer some perspective?

[Bigbazz]

I think it is because outside of second wind situations there isn't a great need for the other abilities, where as during those scary situations second wind can keep you alive indefinitely. It may be that the main time you use enraged regen or impending victory is when you're in an "oh shit, below 35%" situation where second wind is active anyway.

If you're doing it to conserve healer mana though then I guess yeah the other talents make sense.

[Valech]

I could imagine, that those hardcore prot warriors pick that talent because they steamroll through content, which is designed for a higher average itemlvl then they currently have, and thus, their health might be more often below that magic 35% mark then in other, semi-hardcore guilds. Another explanation might be, that with the legendary cloak, you might endure a bug hit more below that 35% mark then before. Usually I´d argue, that, if you drop below 35% health long enough to make second wind tick a few times, you will die anyway. Clearly that does not apply to edge cutting min maxing hardcore guild, which might have to play around with all-time low healthpools. But since it seems like you are not raiding that hardcore, you might wanna stick to enraged regeneration.

[Deleted]

I prefer Second Wind over Enraged Regen even with all the buffs, the answer is usually simple: Second wind is always there, it will heal you when you need it to. Enraged regen has the same problem as every other cooldown: you have to use them. If i have time to use Enraged Regen, i have time to pop one of the other 3 major cooldowns (+ healthstone / health potion).

Something passive is better than something Active that you forget / are too slow to react to use. We have no other passive defenses (well, legendary cloak proc maybe) so I love Second Wind.

I'm not saying Enraged Regen is bad.

[Valech]

I prefer Second Wind over Enraged Regen even with all the buffs, the answer is usually simple: Second wind is always there, it will heal you when you need it to. Enraged regen has the same problem as every other cooldown: you have to use them. If i have time to use Enraged Regen, i have time to pop one of the other 3 major cooldowns (+ healthstone / health potion).

Something passive is better than something Active that you forget / are too slow to react to use. We have no other passive defenses (well, legendary cloak proc maybe) so I love Second Wind.

I'm not saying Enraged Regen is bad.

If you forget or are too slow to react it´s no flaw with the ability but with you. Also, I think it is quite rare, that you have all of your three major cooldown ready. Unless you sit on it until a oh-shit moment occurs. Which would be far from optimal.
So, if your healers cant manage to pump a heal into you while you are low on health, those 30k ticks wont save you.
I´m not saying second wind is bad, but it has proven viable to me, to have a powerful selfheal if you need it. More controled abilities might bring more management but will also bring higher gain.

[aGit]

it has proven viable to me, to have a powerful selfheal if you need it. More controled abilities might bring more management but will also bring higher gain.

Pretty much this. Yesterday we did norushen 25hc with the 2 healer zerg tactics. I feel like in this scenario enraged regen easily outshines second wind. When i'm siting at 50% hp, i can pop last stand zerker rage + enraged regen and be safe yet again. Cooldown rotation is an important part of tanking, and i feel like choosing second wind over enraged regen you really deprive yourself of a cooldown in exchange for a passive healing ability that to me seems somewhat lackluster to most situations.

[Gliff]

Pretty much this. Yesterday we did norushen 25hc with the 2 healer zerg tactics. I feel like in this scenario enraged regen easily outshines second wind. When i'm siting at 50% hp, i can pop last stand zerker rage + enraged regen and be safe yet again. Cooldown rotation is an important part of tanking, and i feel like choosing second wind over enraged regen you really deprive yourself of a cooldown in exchange for a passive healing ability that to me seems somewhat lackluster to most situations.

You 2 healed heroic 25 Norushen? Wow impressive.

Its not really a huge deal either way. If I'm not using Second Wind I use ER.

[Anuibus]

Something passive is better than something Active that you forget / are too slow to react to use. We have no other passive defenses (well, legendary cloak proc maybe) so I love Second Wind.

Then don't forget to activate it..? ER at a 40% heal is rather powerful, and I really don't see second wind winning out in a raid environment, with or without healers.

[Deleted]

Then don't forget to activate it..? ER at a 40% heal is rather powerful, and I really don't see second wind winning out in a raid environment, with out without healers.

Yeah, now the OP raises it, I'm second guessing my use of second wind. It's very impressive in PvP, but in a raid environment, with the massive amount of damage being thrown about, I can't see it being that good. If you are below 35% health, you are in real danger of dying in the next GCD or so. You'll want a lot of healing and fast. Maybe I've gotten too used to playing every other tank class where they have significant self healing on demand.

[Gliff]

He was also using the JiKun trinket that procs at 35% health

That trinket's proc is actually broken and doesnt work. It is a literal stat stick.

[Angrybathtub]

That trinket's proc is actually broken and doesnt work. It is a literal stat stick.

any chance you could upload your UI ?

[Gliff]

any chance you could upload your UI ?

Ya I'll try to clean up the profiles and get it up this weekend.

[Raugnaut]

Really, the only possible situation in which it may be useful is Malkorok, get to below 35%, and then you essentially have a 3% health per second shield constantly going up on you.

In Raiding enviroments, whenever you DO dip below 35%, you will want to get back to as full as possible as fast as possible. Second Wind is really a terrible talent for raiding in comparision to the other 2 because there are so many things that can instantly knock you down, and if you last long enough to get a heal, well, second wind will generally only heal you for 6-9% of your HP (Enough time for a healer to get a heal off). And thats only IF you get down to sub-35%- good healers would prevent tanks from dipping that low.

For tanking, the only real choice is between Enraged Regeneration (20% upfront, 20% over 6 seconds, 1 min CD) for periodic heavy hitting damage (Thok breaths), or Victory Rush for the 20% heal every 30 seconds (Can be used to counter most big-boss hits, which tend to come every 30 seconds or so. Primordial Strike from Primordius as an older example.)

[Gliff]

any chance you could upload your UI ?

http://www.wowinterface.com/download...8-GliffUI.html

[aGit]

You 2 healed heroic 25 Norushen? Wow impressive.

Its not really a huge deal either way. If I'm not using Second Wind I use ER.

Yeah we had a resto druid and a resto shaman puting out over 300k hps for the whole duration of the fight. 21dps 2 tanks. shadowpriests with divinestar also healed over 140k. For some reason we don't seem to have logs but here is the kill vid

It's nothing special, it has been done before by other guilds.

[Deleted]

If you forget or are too slow to react it´s no flaw with the ability but with you. Also, I think it is quite rare, that you have all of your three major cooldown ready. Unless you sit on it until a oh-shit moment occurs. Which would be far from optimal.
So, if your healers cant manage to pump a heal into you while you are low on health, those 30k ticks wont save you.
I´m not saying second wind is bad, but it has proven viable to me, to have a powerful selfheal if you need it. More controled abilities might bring more management but will also bring higher gain.

There is nobody in the world who can honestly say "I always react in time". No one. Using your cooldowns is part of being a good tank, but the problem with Enraged Regen to me is that it's a Reactive, not a proactive (if that even is the right word) cooldown. Other cooldowns you use before the damage comes, Enraged Regen you use after.

Even that one 35k tick can save your life, and it keeps on ticking if you're in danger. Enraged Regen does look a lot more attractive with the rage cost removed tho...

[squid]

Heroic Bosses are going to drop you below 35%, doesn't mean you have done something wrong.

[Bigbazz]

There is nobody in the world who can honestly say "I always react in time". No one. Using your cooldowns is part of being a good tank, but the problem with Enraged Regen to me is that it's a Reactive, not a proactive (if that even is the right word) cooldown. Other cooldowns you use before the damage comes, Enraged Regen you use after.

Even that one 35k tick can save your life, and it keeps on ticking if you're in danger. Enraged Regen does look a lot more attractive with the rage cost removed tho...

I honestly don't think "reacting in time" is an issue for Warriors in top end guilds, It certaintly isn't an issue for me and I'm not a top end raiding Warrior. Enraged Regen you use when the damage comes, and second wind only works when the damage comes so I fail what the difference is.

If you take so much damage that you can't react in time then I can't see how second wind is going to save you any more than enraged regen can.

[Angrybathtub]

http://www.wowinterface.com/download...8-GliffUI.html

Thanks alot m8, greatly appreciate it.

[Valech]

There is nobody in the world who can honestly say "I always react in time". No one. Using your cooldowns is part of being a good tank, but the problem with Enraged Regen to me is that it's a Reactive, not a proactive (if that even is the right word) cooldown. Other cooldowns you use before the damage comes, Enraged Regen you use after.

Even that one 35k tick can save your life, and it keeps on ticking if you're in danger. Enraged Regen does look a lot more attractive with the rage cost removed tho...

It is true, that use use ER AFTER the damage came in. But Second Wind only ticks when damage is done either. So it applies to both. The difference is if you can figure when it is wise to apply a massive selfheal or if you are unable to do so.

Let´s imagine I´d decide to pick second wind. Im standing at that boss, being hit in the face a few times in the row and drop below 35% health. Every half-way decent healer will instantly be on the verge of a heartstroke and pump their big oh-shit heals into you presumably soon-to-be carcass. That leaves enough time for second wind to tick twice AT BEST. And if your healers fail to recognize the tank is in danger or are unable to counterheal the damage you will be dead soon anyway.

Now let´s see what would have been going on with Enraged Regeneration. Every minute you may decide to proactively preserve your healer´s mana by simply clicking ER when you drop under 50%. Hell, if your UI is a bit confusing, just configure your addons that they make a huge blinkining symbol somewhere amidst your screen.

And always keep in mind, that you can macro Zerkerrage with ER, so that the 40% are granted. I currently bound my Zandalari trinket as well to it, so that my pool is even bigger. Ticks for insane amounts.