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  1. #41
    I think they design end bosses that week 1 gear cannot kill (without bot like precision/timing).
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  2. #42
    Herald of the Titans Matt0193's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mosotti View Post
    Lich King Heroic was unkillable. They've used the 5% buff in the world first
    Not quite. Paragon had several extremely close wipes before the buff came around. They, along with others as well no doubt, would've had the kill within 1-2 lockouts if they were given unlimited attempts. It was definitely killable, it just required perfection to pull it off.
    "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." - Ayn Rand

  3. #43
    The situation is so predictable lately. "Next to final boss takes a week more at least". "Last boss will DEFINITELY not take only 2 or 3 weeks".

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Dangg View Post
    Kael'Thas
    C'thun
    Chromaggus w/o bug
    Kael'thas was bugged. It's hard to kill a boss that all of your healers have threat on as soon as he activates.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FemaleGoblinMage View Post
    The situation is so predictable lately. "Next to final boss takes a week more at least". "Last boss will DEFINITELY not take only 2 or 3 weeks".
    End bosses are designed with the intent that you gear up before you kill them. There's nothing wrong with this. You are making an assumption, however, that gear is the only issue. These hardcore guilds, as good as they are, still need to practice the mechanics.

  5. #45
    Bloodsail Admiral SinR's Avatar
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    I remember Ensidia saying that Yogg Zero Light was "Mathematically Impossible"


    until STARS killed him
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  6. #46
    Brewmaster Ferg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SinR View Post
    I remember Ensidia saying that Yogg Zero Light was "Mathematically Impossible"


    until STARS killed him
    the only reason stars killed it was because of a cheese strat, in case people have forgotten

    remember throwing specialization...?
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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by nnelson54 View Post
    Sinestra was the end heroic boss of BoT, not Cho'gall. And she was hotfixed many times during Paragon's wipes on it, because there were mechanics that made her impossible to kill. It wasn't tested since they wanted it to be a surprise, which obviously didn't work out so well.

    But there hasn't been any recent examples.
    Sinestra was hotfixed not because she was unkillable, but because she was way too easily killable with Dark Simulcrum. Once the hotfix was in, she fell rather quickly in 25 man. But she was waaaaaay overtuned in 10 man, until they hotfixed her in February (3 months after Cata came out!) no 10 man guild killed her.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by FemaleGoblinMage View Post
    Yes, needing better gear than the one at first possible even if you are the best guild in the world, is part of the encounters being mathematically unkillable. By the way, my main argument is mainly a common sense one. Imagine you are Blizzard and you have made an encounter that ends the whole expansion "just killable", don't you realize that the tiniest coding mistake could have turned it into an easy tank and spank therefore you would be very likely inclined to overtune it for a few days to make sure the whole expansion doesn't go down the drain for a small coding error?
    Translation:

    "End bosses aren't killable the day they open in the previous tiers gear. Blizzard intentionally overtunes bosses because of the slight chance there may be a bug and allow the fight to become tank n spank, letting it die soon after release, spoiling the whole expansion."

    Don't see the problem, or the point....
    Apply blizzards model to any other subscription service,you'd be outraged:
    Netflix adds no new movies for a year, you click a new movie, there's a $5 fee.
    You're in an accident, click your onstar button, but there's an addition $20 fee for them to help.
    You turn on your tv only to find all you get are the infomercial channels. Every other show is pay per view.
    See how dumb that model is?

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferg View Post
    the only reason stars killed it was because of a cheese strat, in case people have forgotten

    remember throwing specialization...?
    True but don't forget some super cheaty addon that enabled to target, mark and taunt 3 mobs with the same name!
    Besides Yoggy and C'Thun I can only think of Hakkar in vanilla with all aspects up. Wasn't exactly unkillable by the end of vanilla but it was as hard as yogg or maybe I was much younger and the world seemed huge.

  10. #50
    They have never released a boss mathematically unkillable since C'Thun.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferg View Post
    the only reason stars killed it was because of a cheese strat, in case people have forgotten

    remember throwing specialization...?
    So, basically, they killed it because they theorycrafted and figured out the best possible strat, which everyone copied afterward?

    Yup.

    Sorry, but "cheese" doesn't apply.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferg View Post
    the only reason stars killed it was because of a cheese strat, in case people have forgotten

    remember throwing specialization...?
    Also don't forget how many warlocks they had. Drain Soul as an execute move (more damage past 20%) and you could turn around and face away from Yogg. It was so vital they stacked a heavy amount of warlocks.

  13. #53
    I remember when EJ and every single top EU/US guild claimed Yogg 0 was 100% impossible with current tier gear yet STARS still killed it.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Zylan View Post
    I remember when EJ and every single top EU/US guild claimed Yogg 0 was 100% impossible with current tier gear yet STARS still killed it.
    Tbh you should take everything EJ says with a grain of salt

    Take the Shaman and haste fiasco in Wotlk for example where they said that shaman players getting haste gear and gemming for haste were stupid and were even banning people who were posting data about that yet 3-4 months after that event they suddenly went "Lol guys just get haste gear/gem for haste and dont ask any questions, just do it" .

  15. #55
    mathematically unkillable means that you cant do the total damage to kill the boss before the enrage time with the current gear?

  16. #56
    I think when most of the people claiming a boss is mathematically impossible what they're doing is taking BiS sim profiles and seeing that the damage required to kill the boss is greater than what the sims are capable of doing. This however doesn't make it impossible, with good RNG / some more gear / class stacking / clever use of mechanics it can usually be overcome.
    I often wonder how much RNG plays a part in some of these top kills. It must make a difference if x mechanic causes people to lose more or less dps each pull. Of course a large part of progression raiding is finding ways to overcome that, doesn't stop me being curious though
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