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  1. #1

    Casuals > Raiders, when it comes to content - misconception

    I often read on these forums, and just about all over the internet where there is World of Warcraft talk present, that Blizzard should focus more on content for casuals and less content for the "1% of raiders". Some even claim that heroic raiding should be removed because the audience is too small.

    This is just plain wrong to say, and a poor argument in my opinion.

    Let's look at the facts here. Hardcore raiders and raiders in general are more than likely, dedicated to the game and their progression, meaning they are subscribed for a majority of the year and most likely 12 months a year. That's about roughly $180 per dedicated raider. When you compare this to some casual players who are subscribed 1-3 months in a year, regardless of the content blizzard makes for them; tell me who is making more income for Blizzard on a per person basis ?

    The answer is clear: It's the dedicated players; meaning we absolutely deserve to get the content that Blizzard gives us and even the special treatment. You should also know there are over hundreds of thousands of these dedicated raiders.

    Now tell me why again, do raiders deserve less content than casuals ?

  2. #2
    Let's use your math. There are an estimated 7.7 million subs. If 1% are the people you describe, that's 77,000 subs, which amounts to $13.8 mil a year in revenue. The other 7.6 mil give them $273.6 mil for an average of three months, and they don't weigh down the servers with traffic. Get it now?

  3. #3
    The truth is that Blizzard lies about the % of people that raided. If only 1-5% of people raided in BC, they must of all been on my server.

  4. #4
    Bloodsail Admiral Memory's Avatar
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    I think you made up a bunch of non-sense.
    1. There is no general rule that a casual player will play only 2-3 months per year.
    2. Even then, the sum of those casual players would account for more than the "1%" hardcore players of your scenario (unless one year has 100 months or so).
    3. You assume that hardcore raiders do not quit and come back regularly, but it's not like that, especially with the catch up mechanics, one may quit after Garrosh H or whatnot, and come back few months later.

    In the end, there are two reasons for Blizzard should keep making good high-end content:
    1. Quality. The game owes its name, fame, community, reputation, also to the quality of high-end game.
    2. Money. The above point one has an economical implication.

  5. #5
    Mechagnome Ineko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon138 View Post
    The truth is that Blizzard lies about the % of people that raided. If only 1-5% of people raided in BC, they must of all been on my server.
    So your server alone had over 110,000 people raiding Sunwell, okay.

  6. #6
    Myself i think its time to reward the Heroic players, it feels like the last years have only been about the casual tbh
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  7. #7
    That 1%, is that all raiders that would progress into heroics at some stage, or is that only the raiders that would be clearing content in the first couple weeks?

  8. #8
    The Patient crazymack's Avatar
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    this thread will be very constructive
    *reaches for popcorn*

  9. #9
    I wanna play.

    Uhhh check that quellious's guys math. He does have a good point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richardbro View Post
    Now tell me why again, do raiders deserve less content than casuals ?
    Technically raiders have more content. Raiders get to do everything casuals can do + normal/heroic raids. Casuals can do casual stuff and then they get blocked from doing heroic and maybe normal raids.

  10. #10
    I am Murloc! Valyrian Stormclaw's Avatar
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    The OP's facts and reasoning is completely shot to mars.

    First of all, there are FAR, FAR, FAR, more hardcore raiders than you think, more than 1%, more like 10% at the least, and your thought that casuals just play for a couple months is completely wrong. Many of my friends are so-called "casuals" but have been playing since early BC. Also, as said earlier, catch up mechanics allow players who've completed every single raid, got all the best gear and basically done everything, to temporallily leave WoW to go play some other game, than resubsribe when a new major patch comes out.

  11. #11
    I think there are a lot of overblown assumptions when it comes to raiding overall.

    If raiding has always been a minority-participation game element, which it certainly seems to have been (and continue to be), then it stands to reason that raiding itself has very little to do with sub fluctuation.

    In fact, the games growth occurred when raiding was far less accessible than it is now. Which infers that the game is simply going through a natural aging process, or that the playerbase has stalled, acquiring few if any new players, or that the non-raid content as delivered simply isn't being viewed favorably.

    Or, some combination of all 3. In a nutshell, you don't lose close to half your playerbase due to raiding, when you never had that number raiding in the first place.
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  12. #12
    I am a casual player. I raid. I have been subscribed since a bit after the game was released.
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.

    -Kujako-

  13. #13
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    I think there are a lot of overblown assumptions when it comes to raiding overall.

    If raiding has always been a minority-participation game element, which it certainly seems to have been (and continue to be), then it stands to reason that raiding itself has very little to do with sub fluctuation.

    In fact, the games growth occurred when raiding was far less accessible than it is now. Which infers that the game is simply going through a natural aging process, or that the playerbase has stalled, acquiring few if any new players, or that the non-raid content as delivered simply isn't being viewed favorably.

    Or, some combination of all 3. In a nutshell, you don't lose close to half your playerbase due to raiding, when you never had that number raiding in the first place.
    Raiding has an impact in so far as it's the primary content the developers have focused on making for years and spending the majority of their resources towards making. In that sense yes it's very impactful. It has not and has never been the cause of any of this games growth.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  14. #14
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    The 'per person' part of your argument is where it fails. Even if you assume that 10% stay subscribed for 12 months a year and the other 90% subscribe for only three months a year, the 90% will bring in a lot more revenue than the other group. And if you want to increase revenue then you work on content that will keep the other 90% around for a few more months per year than they are now. Basically the argument fails in every possible way.
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  15. #15
    hardcore players do get rewarded. they get nice gear and cool mounts and stuff. Im always jelous of hardcore players but i cant, nor want to spend time and effort to be hardcore.

    I just wish there was hardcore 5 mans. current 5 mans are so easy.

  16. #16
    Lets say only 1% of people actually did raid. Why change a thing when sub numbers are only improving?

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon138 View Post
    The truth is that Blizzard lies about the % of people that raided. If only 1-5% of people raided in BC, they must of all been on my server.
    Yeah i don't know about their total numbers but from what i remember about tbc and even vanilla was that everybody was raiding end game. Of course at varying levels and tiers but there was always raids going on. Who knows but it is GC saying yogg saron was the least ever killed boss or something like that.

    With GC though (dumb dumb) you have to take it as some kind of interpolation of stats that don't really make sense except in his mind.

    meh.

  18. #18
    The Lightbringer OzoAndIndi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richardbro View Post
    When you compare this to some casual players who are subscribed 1-3 months in a year
    Assumptions... a huge amount of "casuals" are probably consistently subscribed too, no matter how much time they are investing in comparison, and still paying the same amount.

    Really though, deserve? Who deserves *anything* other than quality customer service for the product they are paying for? The game is Blizzard's product to do with as they please, not a daycare for special snowflakes that think Blizzard is their parent that is supposed to entertain them the right way else they'll throw a tantrum.

  19. #19
    I think the real misconception is that raiders don't participate in "casual" non-raiding content. What do you think raiders do when they're not raiding? Many are actually heavily invested in the 'grindy' aspects of the game outside of raid hours.

  20. #20
    Very very very few posts say anything about removing heroic raiding. Yet many posts on forums talk about removing casual content.

    In fact, I don't think I've seen any posts that are about removing heroic raiding. Most are just a reflex response to elitist a that want to remove casual raiding.

    That being said, I do agree that heroic raiding should stay. I disagree that Blizzard makes more money from the heroic raiding player base. Many non-raiding players pay the same as heroic raiders (I.e. They don't unsub)

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