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  1. #801
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Oh absolutely. Theirs a tonne of abuse that players get put through by other players. It's dog eat dog gangsta shit. Theirs a thread on these very forums that suggests that behavior is just being carried over into lfr.

    It's yet another reason that raiding has such dismal popularity among any significant portion of the player base. Many of the folks doing it are utter and complete assholes. Not all obviously and you can meet some really good folks even now in warcraft. You just get burned yo.
    You have never played mobas I suppose and I'd probably advice against it.
    Last edited by cFortyfive; 2013-09-26 at 01:18 AM.

  2. #802
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Oh absolutely. Theirs a tonne of abuse that players get put through by other players. It's dog eat dog gangsta shit. Theirs a thread on these very forums that suggests that behavior is just being carried over into lfr.

    It's yet another reason that raiding has such dismal popularity among any significant portion of the player base. Many of the folks doing it are utter and complete assholes. Not all obviously and you can meet some really good folks even now in warcraft. You just get burned yo.
    Sorry but I find the casuals to be more toxic than hardcore raiders, I mean after all.........we ARE only what was it you said? 5% of the population? That leaves 95% of the toxic players as the casuals, look at the dude with the carebear for his avatar using homophobic slurs in his post.
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  3. #803
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Oh absolutely. Theirs a tonne of abuse that players get put through by other players. It's dog eat dog gangsta shit. Theirs a thread on these very forums that suggests that behavior is just being carried over into lfr.

    It's yet another reason that raiding has such dismal popularity among any significant portion of the player base. Many of the folks doing it are utter and complete assholes. Not all obviously and you can meet some really good folks even now in warcraft. You just get burned yo.
    Which is why the animosity from all sides, PvPers, Raiders, and Casuals, needs to end. It doesn't do the game or Blizzard any good. Everyone should try to come up with solutions to help Blizzard. Not this, "OMG BLIZZ YOU'RE STUPID, GIVE ME HARDER RAIDS" or "OMG GIVE ME EASIER RAIDS" or "GIVE ME BETTER PVP STUFF" It sucks and it's killing the community. Yes, Blizzard has helped kill it themselves but, it's also the players in general and the way they treat each other.
    Last edited by h1ko; 2013-09-26 at 01:21 AM.

  4. #804
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    Quote Originally Posted by cFortyfive View Post
    You have never played mobas I suppose.
    All the time. Been in dota 2 since beta. HoN, smite, original Dota, no league though. Getting my rares straight to see if i can get any good trades later. Luckily I have a pretty good group of friends I que with so i don't have to deal with general faggotry, in fact I don't play if they aren't on.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    Sorry but I find the casuals to be more toxic than hardcore raiders, I mean after all.........we ARE only what was it you said? 5% of the population? That leaves 95% of the toxic players as the casuals, look at the dude with the carebear for his avatar using homophobic slurs in his post.
    You are only 5% of the population but it only takes one of you to really make life terrible for everyone else. With the advent of LFR you can pop into a raid, blow the sky of the meters, link them in raid chat, call everyone a scrub and troll to your hearts content. Luckily now you can be ignored or kicked and I'm NOT beholden to people like that for character progression. Still exposing people to ass douch baggery like that on a massive scale is pretty terrible.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  5. #805
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    in fact I don't play if they aren't on.
    That's in your case definitely the best solution.
    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    Sorry but I find the casuals to be more toxic than hardcore raiders, I mean after all......
    Very true knowing a full server without any hardcore raiders that still is among the worst I have yet to witness.
    Last edited by cFortyfive; 2013-09-26 at 01:25 AM.

  6. #806
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    All the time. Been in dota 2 since beta. HoN, smite, original Dota, no league though. Getting my rares straight to see if i can get any good trades later. Luckily I have a pretty good group of friends I que with so i don't have to deal with general faggotry, in fact I don't play if they aren't on.

    - - - Updated - - -



    You are only 5% of the population but it only takes one of you to really make life terrible for everyone else. With the advent of LFR you can pop into a raid, blow the sky of the meters, link them in raid chat, call everyone a scrub and troll to your hearts content. Luckily now you can be ignored or kicked and I'm NOT beholden to people like that for character progression. Still exposing people to ass douch baggery like that on a massive scale is pretty terrible.
    You do realize casuals and bads treat others like crap for no reason as well right? Stop trying to make raiders into these horrible nasty people and you guys the innocent victims, because it's horseshit, you guys are probably more so than us! Just look at these forums as a good example, the whole community is trash be it so called hardcores or casuals or bads..........they all are dicks pure and simple, the REAL hardcores are quiet and doing their raiding and making world firsts..........I am not hardcore I am not casual.......I play and I raid I just happen to think LFR sucks and breeds bad players.
    Last edited by Seefer; 2013-09-26 at 01:30 AM.
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  7. #807
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    You do realize casuals and bads treat others like crap for no reason as well right? Stop trying to make raiders into these horrible nasty people and you guys the innocent victims, because it's horseshit, you guys are probably more so than us! Just look at these forums as a good example, the whole community is trash be it so called hardcores or casuals or bads..........they all are dicks pure and simple, the REAL hardcores are quiet and doing their raiding and making world firsts..........I am not hardcore I am not casual.......I play and I raid I just happen to think LFR sucks and breeds bad players.
    I didn't make raiders into these horrible nasty people. In fact if you go back and read one of the earlier posts I made on the topic I made it very clear that lots of them were also good folks to. I think the content they consume engenders and attracts a certain type of behavior and mindset but I'm not foolish enough to believe that rule is universal. I know lots of good raiders to who aren't assholes. It's just the higher up you get in the content the less tolerance people will have for those who are not quite up to snuff.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  8. #808
    You can have a shit experience with other players in any game, WoW's not especially bad in that regard.

    Just last night I did Direbrew on 11 toons. I've done this since Brewfest started with no issues. I got through all but two of them last night - in one the DPS was atrocious (I was dual boxing my undergeared mage with my tank - no dual boxing software just alt tabbing to occasionally attack... and I came first on DPS. On a caster. And no they weren't 89s.) but everyone was friendly about it, just had to quit and re-queue in the end. Not a problem.

    The other one though had a tank that started insulting people and being an aggressive asshole out of nowhere (nobody else was even talking), ran out of the room halfway through the fight, pulled random things and finished up with more insults at the end. Now I remember THAT run and not the 30-40 perfectly fine runs I had. It sticks out in your memory when you have a bad experience.

    LFR is similar, with 25 people in a group and the ease with which you queue, odds are you're going to have a jerk or troll every other run. But it's still like 1/50 people.

    That's one of the advantages of forming a raid group, you automatically filter those people out (most of them don't put in the effort to try to join a raid group anyway). Even a mostly casual pug like in Flexi usually has a pretty good atmosphere versus randoms. But of course it comes at the cost of the time taken to organise it (which can be a nightmare sometimes).
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  9. #809
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    I didn't make raiders into these horrible nasty people. In fact if you go back and read one of the earlier posts I made on the topic I made it very clear that lots of them were also good folks to. I think the content they consume engenders and attracts a certain type of behavior and mindset but I'm not foolish enough to believe that rule is universal. I know lots of good raiders to who aren't assholes. It's just the higher up you get in the content the less tolerance people will have for those who are not quite up to snuff.
    Yeah and what about the people I try and help who do 30k DPS who tell me "Go kill yourself" and more colorful things? Like I said, every walk of life in this game is pure toxic, you just have a massive chip on your shoulder for some reason towards raiders, your posts are proof of it, I don't know if it's because you were told you aren't good enough or what but that chip is there and it is making you quite bigoted and hostile.
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  10. #810
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    Yeah and what about the people I try and help who do 30k DPS who tell me "Go kill yourself" and more colorful things? Like I said, every walk of life in this game is pure toxic, you just have a massive chip on your shoulder for some reason towards raiders, your posts are proof of it, I don't know if it's because you were told you aren't good enough or what but that chip is there and it is making you quite bigoted and hostile.
    8/10 in those instances you can attribute the "go kill yourself" to how you phrased or stated the initial comment. If for instance you say "hey scrub here's how you get better" then your probably gonna get a sour response in return. The remaining 2 examples can be attributed to people either having a bad day and not feeling particularly nice (it does happen) or just trolls. In either case the content (in this case lfr) is not promoting it for those players. It's giving an avenue for jerks to jump in and be douches but I know of almost nobody who thinks their king shit because they completed lfr and should theirfor lord over everybody and tell them what's up. That is strictly or almost strictly a raider mentality.

    Do I have a chip on my shoulder against raiders? No not really at least I don't think so seeing as how I was one only a short month or two ago. I've played this game for almost 8 years now on and off. In every raiding guild I've seen the same usual high school drama bullshit. People going livid in officer chat but all silent on vent when one or two guys aren't performing or the group is wiping. Posts in the officer forums out of sight from the general chat. Excluding people on purpose and heated arguments and more drama then I care to remember. It got better as the game went on because I could easily avoid it by simple not running with that group and I got lucky and found a group of people who are relatively free from that (although not completely). It's usual cliquish high school bullshit that these guilds engender. In fact their very nature is that of a clique. That's not to say every single individual member is an asshole but that the overall system promotes cliques. Guilds do have redeeming qualities though. It's just when they devolve into cliques it becomes BS. Like it's good to be social in this game. The game should require you to be more social and meet people and chit chat and so forth. But when that aspect of the game becomes exclusionary then it becomes a bad thing I think. It's like nationalism. Nationalism isn't inherently a bad thing in and of itself. It's just when it becomes we're all Americans except for this minority group here (gays, muslims, etc etc) then it becomes a bad thing.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2013-09-26 at 01:50 AM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  11. #811
    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    Yeah and what about the people I try and help who do 30k DPS who tell me "Go kill yourself" and more colorful things? Like I said, every walk of life in this game is pure toxic, you just have a massive chip on your shoulder for some reason towards raiders, your posts are proof of it, I don't know if it's because you were told you aren't good enough or what but that chip is there and it is making you quite bigoted and hostile.
    In the end and I think everyone in all groups of WoW need to be understand is. Blizzard doesn't owe Raiders anything. Blizzard doesn't owe PvPers anything. Blizzard doesn't owe Casuals anything. But, we all matter to them in some way shape or form. That's why they are trying to create a balance, while it may not be the best. They are still trying and that has to be taken in account.

  12. #812
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    8/10 in those instances you can attribute the "go kill yourself" to how you phrased or stated the initial comment. If for instance you say "hey scrub here's how you get better" then your probably gonna get a sour response in return. The remaining 2 examples can be attributed to people either having a bad day and not feeling particularly nice (it does happen) or just trolls. In either case the content (in this case lfr) is not promoting it for those players. It's giving an avenue for jerks to jump in and be douches but I know of almost nobody who thinks their king shit because they completed lfr and should theirfor lord over everybody and tell them what's up. That is strictly or almost strictly a raider mentality.

    Do I have a chip on my shoulder against raiders? No not really at least I don't think so seeing as how I was one only a short month or two ago. I've played this game for almost 8 years now on and off. In every raiding guild I've seen the same usual high school drama bullshit. People going livid in officer chat but all silent on vent when one or two guys aren't performing or the group is wiping. Posts in the officer forums out of sight from the general chat. Excluding people on purpose and heated arguments and more drama then I care to remember. It got better as the game went on because I could easily avoid it by simple not running with that group and I got lucky and found a group of people who are relatively free from that (although not completely). It's usual cliquish high school bullshit that these guilds engender. In fact their very nature is that of a clique. That's not to say every single individual member is an asshole but that the overall system promotes cliques which certainly has SOME redeeming qualities. Like it's good to be social in this game. The game should require you to be more social and meet people and chit chat and so forth. But when that aspect of the game becomes exclusionary then it becomes a bad thing I think. It's like nationalism. Nationalism isn't inherently a bad thing in and of itself. It's just when it becomes we're all Americans except for this minority group here (gays, muslims, etc etc) then it becomes a bad thing.

    Actually I am usually quite nice when I offer help, I even told someone to shut their mouth when they were harping on someone new, but usually each time I am met with some colorful remark or another..........again the problem is the people who think they are hardcore give the actual raiders a bad name, kind of like bads who use the casual moniker give casuals a bad name.
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  13. #813
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    Actually I am usually quite nice when I offer help, I even told someone to shut their mouth when they were harping on someone new, but usually each time I am met with some colorful remark or another..........again the problem is the people who think they are hardcore give the actual raiders a bad name, kind of like bads who use the casual moniker give casuals a bad name.
    Good I hope you are. I hope their are more folks like you. I just don't see that though. My experience has been like the one detailed in the other thread on this forum. Pointing out the guy who did 30k dps, calling him out as a scrub because you blew up the boss and he did squat and the group wiped (which almost NEVER has anything to do with his dps or yours) and then drama. Someone gets kicked. Angry customers all around.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  14. #814
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Good I hope you are. I hope their are more folks like you. I just don't see that though. My experience has been like the one detailed in the other thread on this forum. Pointing out the guy who did 30k dps, calling him out as a scrub because you blew up the boss and he did squat and the group wiped (which almost NEVER has anything to do with his dps or yours) and then drama. Someone gets kicked. Angry customers all around.
    Again, those are wanna-be hardcores, because let's face it, in my personal opinion the ones who are the real hardcores are the ones who make the videos.........everyone else are just wanna-bes..........I am a gamer, I am good, I am not the best but I will help when needed but I won't tolerate being told "Go kill yourself <insert racist remark> <insert homophobic remark>" When what I simply say is "Have you tried using this talent or that glyph as I hear it is supposed to help boost your DPS" or something of the like.
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  15. #815
    People who are assholes to others in LFR or dungeons or whatever are VERY RARELY serious raiders. In my experience the more seriously you raid the less toxic you are. In general, obviously there are some exceptions. But you don't last long in a dedicated raiding guild if you don't have decent social skills.

    And no I'm not saying non-raiders are all terrible, I mean it goes from like 5% of the population being toxic to like 0.05% or whatever.
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  16. #816
    I'd say it's pretty even: people of both playstyles can be assholes. Assholes are assholes, whether they play 90 hours a week or half an hour a week. I've seen the top DPS be an asshole and the noob be an asshole. Getting into a pissing contest about which side has more assholes is a useless endeavor.

  17. #817
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barnabas View Post
    Gotta love us vs them threads. They always seem to go well. When it comes down to it, for Blizzard, they really need anyone willing to sub at this point. So they'll continue making content for everyone to enjoy no matter how good or bad they are perceived to be at the game. I'm not saying they are completely desperate but when you lose half your income you had 7 or 8 months ago you wonder what went wrong and how much more time do I have before this ride ends.
    We vs they threads are almost as good as "if my guild would not have imploded I would have cleared more" statements in those threads. lol

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    People who are assholes to others in LFR or dungeons or whatever are VERY RARELY serious raiders. In my experience the more seriously you raid the less toxic you are. In general, obviously there are some exceptions. But you don't last long in a dedicated raiding guild if you don't have decent social skills.

    And no I'm not saying non-raiders are all terrible, I mean it goes from like 5% of the population being toxic to like 0.05% or whatever.
    did you ever think that those social skills may start to wear thin when you find yourself continually surrounded by stupidity? even ghandi could only take so much LFR.


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  18. #818
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    You are only 5% of the population but it only takes one of you to really make life terrible for everyone else.
    Goes both ways. In the end it takes a minority regardless of gameplay stance to ruin the enjoyment for the majority. When things are designed around the middle it takes just one person on the bottom to ruin it for the majority. The toxicity does not reside solely in raiders, it exists all over with a portion of them hiding behind the casual name and giving casuals a bad reputation.
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    did you ever think that those social skills may start to wear thin when you find yourself continually surrounded by stupidity? even ghandi could only take so much LFR.
    As the DarkLagacy comic portrays, unicorns cant exist because they all eventually break. I have played from Classic and have spent many dungeons helping other players. After dealing with so many lazy dbags spitting in ones face, one tends to turn a blind eye and stop wasting ones personal time. Elitist raiders have not been particularly disruptive of my game play unlike those who think their 15 bucks entitles them to carries. Those are the players that can lead to groups crawling to a halt.
    Last edited by nekobaka; 2013-09-26 at 04:38 AM.

  19. #819
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nekobaka View Post

    As the DarkLagacy comic portrays, unicorns cant exist because they all eventually break.
    yeah. that was a very well thought out comic


    Lawful good does not always mean Lawful nice

  20. #820
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    even ghandi could only take so much LFR.
    I'd give all of my considerable gold to be able to watch Ghandi livestream nonstop LFRs on Twitch. Oh, the betting that would be had!

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