Holy Paladin - Selfless Healer over all?

[Deleted]

I find myself switching between both. Fights such as Protectors and Norushen Im running with SH. Nazgrim, Klaxxi Paragons and Immerseus EF. Theres perks and downsides to both so if you are truly progressing perhaps a good idea is to avoid narrow minded-ness (is that a word?!?) and find whcich works best on certain fights and not just by looking at the numbers but what your raid needs.

I 2-healed Norushen HC with a monk and I tried Selfless healer with 9k spirit. It was much worse than EF in my opinion.

I'm not saying SH can't be good, but it should be good with druid/monk healer and still EF was a lot better for keeping the raid. From that I came to conclusion SH cannot be better than EF.

On some fights I might consider SS but it isn't as responsive as EF for my taste so most likely I will stick to EF(Thok might be an exception, we'll see when we're there).

[Deleted]

Not on to Heroic yet (Garrosh down tonight hopefully) so can't speak for how it is. I'll be trying both anyway just to see how it feels I'm sure I'll get a few goes with each before making up my mind.

[nightfalls]

I 2-healed Norushen HC with a monk and I tried Selfless healer with 9k spirit. It was much worse than EF in my opinion.

In 10m I'd expect it to be worse. In 25m it is up in the air but it certain, certainly isn't as versatile.

Like I will preface most of my "we suck" rants with, we are still nowhere near as bad as Druid 5.0 or Shaman 5.2. But that doesn't mean that we aren't bad or that we don't need fixes.

[mcbubble]

In 10man, I tried SS and it's VERY viable...and actually pretty easy to maintain 3 shields at all times. Decent absorbs.
Unfortunately, the only fun playstyle, regardless of 10/25 is SH. It's just a shame that it doesn't have the throughput as EF.

[Jukex]

Selfless Healer is viable on 25m on every fight besides malkorok really.

[mcbubble]

I wouldn't say it's terrible, at first I was reluctant to change from the old EF spam style but SH has grown on me immensely in the past week, we're at 7/14hc and the only fight I used EF on was immerseus.....(can depend a lot on your group's composition, and I'm ofcourse speaking from a 10m perspective)

My one gripe with SH is the GCD for judging. It just doesn't feel right to dps for that one GCD...only because it does no healing.

So, here's a question: Does a successful judgment count as a melee? In other words, will the glyph of battle healer actually heal if you have a successful judgement?

[Dolzzy]

I'm in the same position with you Tolzzy. I do NOT have fun with EF.
Unfortunately my guild will still put me as a dedicated tank healer (on fights like H. Iron Jugg)...which is just dreadful.
That basically makes me have to go EF. To be honest, there are also some fights where it's just more of a throughput to EF spam (when spread).
That being said...the EF blanketing is so un-fun, that it makes me not want to play my paladin (my main for quite a few expansions).

SH is pretty good with tank healing you should try it. It's like a mini lay on hands using divine light at 2 or 3 stacks of SH.

[nightfalls]

So, here's a question: Does a successful judgment count as a melee? In other words, will the glyph of battle healer actually heal if you have a successful judgement?

A very quick check of a log says no. 8 melee swings, 82 judgments, 6 procs of SoI.

[Deleted]

In 10m I'd expect it to be worse. In 25m it is up in the air but it certain, certainly isn't as versatile.

Like I will preface most of my "we suck" rants with, we are still nowhere near as bad as Druid 5.0 or Shaman 5.2. But that doesn't mean that we aren't bad or that we don't need fixes.

My apologies. I've been trying to say on every post that I play 10man(because 10 and 25 are quite different, at least for paladin, it seems). And yeah, in 10man I can't see SH as viable as EF.

Again, from 10man point of view, I can't see any fixes or buffs needed for holy paladin. Paladin seems much stronger than in 5.3 against other healers (again, looking at you disc priests!).

- - - Updated - - -

In 10man, I tried SS and it's VERY viable...and actually pretty easy to maintain 3 shields at all times. Decent absorbs.
Unfortunately, the only fun playstyle, regardless of 10/25 is SH. It's just a shame that it doesn't have the throughput as EF.

It is easy to keep 3 shields rolling AND SS provides quite nice numbers. However, numbers aren't everything and SS is not as versatile as EF. I mean that I don't feel I can be as responsive to raids damage taken with SS, due to charges that should be always used, than I am with EF. This is only personal opinion ofc.

That doesn't mean SS is bad, I just feel I can't control it enough in advance, especially, if/when players mess things up.

[Shuttle]

You couldn't be more wrong. There are many top parsing paladins in heroic progression that run SH.

Who? Nobody in the top 25 world is using Selfless Healer. It's a HPS loss compared to EF, end of story. Anyone who is using SH is playing it for the playstyle, nothing else.

[mcbubble]

Who? Nobody in the top 25 world is using Selfless Healer. It's a HPS loss compared to EF, end of story. Anyone who is using SH is playing it for the play-style, nothing else.

Shuttle - You are blatantly wrong. Also, you can't see the heroic logs on world of logs just yet, so there's no way to differentiate and determine if what you said is true about heroic fights. I have seen some fights on normal where some H Pallies are going for SH.
In fact, the top parse (first parse I looked at) for sha of pride is indeed a SH healer:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...7&e=1622#Hekon
and 4/5 of the top 5 on that fight are SH:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...&e=3636#Virsta
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/s...7&e=351#Auddax
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=5193#Брис (have to hover over buffs gain to interpret)

[Virsta1]

SH is just fine in 25 HC content. I have only used EF on Nuroshen and General Nazgrim. Although SH could have been just as competitive on General. People who think SH is so far behind are just close minded, stuck on EF and can not adapt to changes well. SH does just as much or more as EF on fights with overhealing. Everything but Nuroshen and Malkorok.

[PosPosPos]

From a raid healing standpoint, yes, SH is more than viable.

However, if you want to put in your weight for tank healing while not dropping effectiveness on raid healing as well, EF is the way to go. Feel free to run SH if someone else is focusing on splashing more heals on the tank than the raid as a whole, it's not uncommon to find shamans or druids doing things like that anyway.

[Virsta1]

Tank healing has not been a thing in 25 HC content is a very long time.

[PosPosPos]

Tank healing has not been a thing in 25 HC content is a very long time.

And your point is?

[mcbubble]

I've seen myself give more beacon heals with Divine Purpose spec'd SH.
You can really load some insane beacon heals to the tank...

[sockerbit]

Who? Nobody in the top 25 world is using Selfless Healer. It's a HPS loss compared to EF, end of story. Anyone who is using SH is playing it for the playstyle, nothing else.

I am 8/14H, we used 2 hpally, 1 EF and 1 SH for 5(Im, FP, Sha, Gal) of those, and 1 SH hpally for 1(Noru).

SH is just fine in 25 HC content. I have only used EF on Nuroshen and General Nazgrim. Although SH could have been just as competitive on General. People who think SH is so far behind are just close minded, stuck on EF and can not adapt to changes well. SH does just as much or more as EF on fights with overhealing. Everything but Nuroshen and Malkorok.

Even Norushen(1st week zerg strat), SH was very viable. I totally agree though SH is viable on nearly all fights.

[PosPosPos]

I've seen myself give more beacon heals with Divine Purpose spec'd SH.
You can really load some insane beacon heals to the tank...

You would have to really convince people this is happening, with LoD having 15% transference compared to EF's 50% and all.

[nightfalls]

Beacon doesn't work well with SH, but it's usually a pretty high OH anyway.

Really, "tank healing" these days = knowing when to use your (now actually usable) Sac and possibly substituting DL for HR in your rotation, not relying on Beacons.

[Felleroth]

What would you say are the best spec for pally's?