View Poll Results: What do you think of making Rogues CGS capped

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  • Yeah make it GCD capped

    26 18.31%
  • No I like it being energy regen based

    100 70.42%
  • Does it really matter? I'll pewpew either way.

    16 11.27%
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  1. #1
    Brewmaster AutomaticBadger's Avatar
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    Making rogues GCD class

    I read the tweet about changing energy regen for rogues so we have less downtime between attacks and the idea that upping it would change is to becoming a GCD class. To be honest I can't really say I have an issue with it, aside from a change to how Assassination plays what would be the major impact that would result from this being a change?

    As it stands we are currently one of the most spammy classes, if not the most, energy regen isn't an issue outside of very specific times, looking at AR and KS, so how would it change us?

    For me I'd happily change to it.
    He slipped out of his royal garments, left eternity to enter time, divinity to wrap himself in humanity.
    The sea of glass, for the ocean of separation. He left peace, and for the first time felt pain.
    Because the very hands that held the stars were now sentenced to wear my scars.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by AutomaticBadger View Post
    I read the tweet about changing energy regen for rogues so we have less downtime between attacks and the idea that upping it would change is to becoming a GCD class. To be honest I can't really say I have an issue with it, aside from a change to how Assassination plays what would be the major impact that would result from this being a change?

    As it stands we are currently one of the most spammy classes, if not the most, energy regen isn't an issue outside of very specific times, looking at AR and KS, so how would it change us?

    For me I'd happily change to it.
    Rogue, and especially the Assassination spec, is about rhythm and doing the right thing at the correct moment in the cycle. Is this easier than any other spec you have to click everywhere as fast as possible ? Not really, instead you have to plan more your actions over the next 5 or 10 seconds to optimize their effects.
    If you like GCD caping, Monk or DK are maybe more appropriate choices for you, IMHO.

  3. #3
    Rogues are a gcd locked class at the end of the exp. Rogues get the worst of both worlds they get the shittiest downtime and the gcd capped game play. And it looks like they want monks to suffer the same fate so no chance of them fixing it for rogues.
    Last edited by wow; 2014-06-27 at 06:28 PM.

  4. #4
    High Overlord
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    If you change the energy system, what is then left of the rogue class?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Oggiva View Post
    If you change the energy system, what is then left of the rogue class?
    They already changed it in cata when they made haste give you more so...

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by wow View Post
    They already changed it in cata when they made haste give you more so...
    But we're still fundamentally resource limited. Even late this expansion with massively inflated ilvls each rogue spec has 15+% wait time.
    Fierydemise
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by fierydemise View Post
    But we're still fundamentally resource limited. Even late this expansion with massively inflated ilvls each rogue spec has 15+% wait time.
    Right but the haste change in cata did change things. Even blizzard said it was a bad unfun design they were just talking about warrior's rage at the time but its the same problem they were describing we have.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by wow View Post
    Right but the haste change in cata did change things. Even blizzard said it was a bad unfun design they were just talking about warrior's rage at the time but its the same problem they were describing we have.
    Rogue energy scaled with haste prior to cata through combat potency and focused attacks because getting to do more stuff as you gear makes gearing feel good. Most specs get to do more stuff as their haste increases, instant cast procs from crit, faster cast times, more resources, etc, that wasn't the problem with warriors. The problem with warriors wasn't that rage scaled with gear but that it scaled too well with gear so warriors had to be incredibly resource starved early on or they'd run into major resource cap issues by the end of the expansion. Rogues aren't like that, we start with ~35-40% downtime and end up with 15-20% downtime over the course of an expansion and from the limited testing I did at level 100 I suspect downtime will be lower for fresh 100s in WoD.
    Fierydemise
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  9. #9
    I am Murloc! Thelxi's Avatar
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    I don't want assassination to be GCD capped.

  10. #10
    High Overlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by wow View Post
    They already changed it in cata when they made haste give you more so...
    Going from 20 energy per 2 sec to 1 energy per 0.1 sec is in no way the same as removing energy altogether, which is what it would be like if rogue was to become gcd-capped.

  11. #11
    GCD caps are lame.

    The real problem is that our rotation becomes totally dense when GCD caps. Here's an example of a GCD class:

    You have a bad dps button Badstrike. It has a low or no cooldown.
    You have a good dps button Goodstrike. It either costs a scarce resource or has a cooldown.
    You have a great dps button Greatstrike. It definitely can't be used very often.


    Energy doesn't work well with this. A world with infinite energy decays the rogue class quickly- you'd need to change everything to basically be like enhancement.


    Anyway, I don't like it. We have a short GCD for one reason, and that is so we can hammer away our resources in a small window, and we have an energy bar that can pool for a bit.



    If anything, I'd like a larger energy bar so pooling is even MORE meaningful.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by fierydemise View Post
    from the limited testing I did at level 100 I suspect downtime will be lower for fresh 100s in WoD.
    Wasn't the only 100 testing there was so far in full pvp gear not what fresh 100's would have? And downtime will be from pure luck in pve anyway you won't be able to just buy the gear with the stats you want in pve and with no reforging you have to hope they make enough haste/what you want gear for anything but combat. Haste as combat will be fine it will enchant, flask, food etc haste while the other 2 specs will only get haste from pure luck of gear with haste + mastery or haste + multistrike. With more stats on gear and no reforge I don't see how it will be better for anything other than combat.

    You could enchant and flask haste for the other specs for the feel but would that be the best choice for dmg is what that choice will really come down too.

    They didn't really do anything to specs energy for wod other than assassination lost the 25% chance to have really bad energy lol. So it all comes down to haste on gear it is nice the haste buff is real haste now but if you can't get get with much haste and aren't combat just gonna have a bad time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oggiva View Post
    Going from 20 energy per 2 sec to 1 energy per 0.1 sec is in no way the same as removing energy altogether, which is what it would be like if rogue was to become gcd-capped.
    That happened in wrath and wasn't what I was talking about.


    But on the topic of the thread I don't want gcd capped but I don't want what we get at the start of expansions either.
    Last edited by wow; 2014-06-28 at 12:39 AM.

  13. #13
    Brewmaster AutomaticBadger's Avatar
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    I see where you are going with the whole making it gcd capped will just be lame. It doesn't stop us from feeling like tards at how haste ratings
    He slipped out of his royal garments, left eternity to enter time, divinity to wrap himself in humanity.
    The sea of glass, for the ocean of separation. He left peace, and for the first time felt pain.
    Because the very hands that held the stars were now sentenced to wear my scars.

  14. #14
    I still like the option Does it really matter? I'll pewpew either way. xD

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by wow View Post
    Wasn't the only 100 testing there was so far in full pvp gear not what fresh 100's would have?
    Yeah but I think it'll still be better. The level 100 premade had ~11.8 haste regen as assassination ~12.4 with lemon zest. That is a mid ToT level of energy regen so I suspect pre-raid gear will probably put our energy regen like mid T14 of this expansion. There are a couple reasons for this, rating decay doesn't look anywhere near as severe as the last two expansions and lemon zest is equivalent to having a free ~2000 haste in MoP terms which is 30-50% of the total haste we had from pre-raid gear.
    Fierydemise
    The Horsemen-US 25 (25 man). 9 Hours per Week.
    Rogue Chat-Blogging about Rogue PvE and Theorycrafting (Twitter)

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by fierydemise View Post
    Yeah but I think it'll still be better. The level 100 premade had ~11.8 haste regen as assassination ~12.4 with lemon zest. That is a mid ToT level of energy regen so I suspect pre-raid gear will probably put our energy regen like mid T14 of this expansion. There are a couple reasons for this, rating decay doesn't look anywhere near as severe as the last two expansions and lemon zest is equivalent to having a free ~2000 haste in MoP terms which is 30-50% of the total haste we had from pre-raid gear.
    You kind of just skipped the rest of my post the issue isn't how much stats decayed its getting gear that has the stats on the first place. Its great the decay doesn't look as big but we're still left with if the gear designers decide to put haste + whatever main stat a spec wants on lots of gear or not for pve.
    Last edited by wow; 2014-06-28 at 01:40 AM.

  17. #17
    High Overlord
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    I don't think getting the stat you want is going to be all that hard come WoD with the whole "leather gear can be used by all the leather classes" model. There are probably going to be plenty of variations in each slot. That is unless the rest of your raid want the same stat.

  18. #18
    IMO a GCD capped class is a terrible design.
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  19. #19
    id try something different than what we have now because what we have now isnt working for me anymore.(from a non sub rogue pvp perspective)

  20. #20
    Brewmaster AutomaticBadger's Avatar
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    Something to ask is how does lemon zest compare to mastering the basics. With a free combo point with every cb maker should make us effectively gcd capped anyway
    He slipped out of his royal garments, left eternity to enter time, divinity to wrap himself in humanity.
    The sea of glass, for the ocean of separation. He left peace, and for the first time felt pain.
    Because the very hands that held the stars were now sentenced to wear my scars.

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