1. #1
    Warchief Redpanda's Avatar
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    WoW Asia VS WoW every where else

    A lot of people say oh its a different game. From what Ive gathered they have a ilvl bump and to offset that the bosses deal 10-15%(?) more damage. They get separate locks outs raidwise10 and 25. (Dont recall if that applies to current or previous teirs.) cant show skeletons or bones so spells have diff icons and and death=tombstones. Thats all I can think of atm. Boss mechanics are the same you still need tanks healers and dps to down stuff so unless im missing something at its base game play as far as raiding goes is the same. That is unless someone can elaborate on what makes things so blatantly "different"
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    People doing below 200k dps? Ain't nobody got time for that.
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    Why? Why should content be gated behind skill?
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  2. #2
    8 ilvls higher for 25m gear. 8% more damage and health to mobs in 25m. Separate 10 and 25 lockouts for current and previous tiers. Separate lockouts alone is a big deal, and 8ilvls slightly outweighs the 8% bump so combined it just isn't the same race compared to the west.

    Thus why wowprogress separated West and East rankings (still excludes CN).

  3. #3
    Warchief Redpanda's Avatar
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    does the ilvl bump make up THAT much of a difference from boss health and damage bump? at its core game play is the same. It just sucks that wow asia goes something gets something first etc its often brushed aside.
    Chaos! Madness! Like a hug for your brain!¯\(°_o)/¯
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpheus View Post
    People doing below 200k dps? Ain't nobody got time for that.
    Quote Originally Posted by smartazjb0y View Post
    Why? Why should content be gated behind skill?
    14/14h and finally done

  4. #4
    You missed my point. It's the combination of separate lockouts and the 25m changes. The ilvl stuff is a slight bump advantage not big, but can also mess with some tuning. Think if the US or another region got these changes and another didn't like EU. US would then be in its own bracket because it's not an even field. The Asian guilds are really good and could compete for world first with us but blame Blizzard for pretty much forcing them into their own bracket.

  5. #5
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redrun View Post
    does the ilvl bump make up THAT much of a difference from boss health and damage bump? at its core game play is the same. It just sucks that wow asia goes something gets something first etc its often brushed aside.
    Do you believe 1% is substantial in world first races? Even ignoring multi-lockout it makes it imbalanced.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinnermighty View Post
    8 ilvls higher for 25m gear. 8% more damage and health to mobs in 25m. Separate 10 and 25 lockouts for current and previous tiers. Separate lockouts alone is a big deal, and 8ilvls slightly outweighs the 8% bump so combined it just isn't the same race compared to the west.

    Thus why wowprogress separated West and East rankings (still excludes CN).
    Whether its the same race or not, the west usually wins anyway, without the separate lockouts and ilvl advantages.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Redrun View Post
    does the ilvl bump make up THAT much of a difference from boss health and damage bump? at its core game play is the same. It just sucks that wow asia goes something gets something first etc its often brushed aside.
    Yes, 8 ilvls is a far more bigger increase than just 8% dps increase. My stats increase by.. actually, about 8%. But that means my spell power increases, my haste, my crit and my mastery increases by 8%, so it's probably a 12-15% dps increase.

    Also, only their 25mans are scaled up which means that their 10man kill can't really be compared to our 10/25man kills. The gear level difference is insanely important though and should not be underestimated.
    EU first PG wave 30, come at me bros.

  8. #8
    Does this now mean that there will be no World First race after this tier?

    If a guild gears up in 25man and kills the last 2 or 3 bosses in 10man, it really negates the race for both 25man & 10man.

  9. #9
    To my knowledge that damage and health buff doesn't apply to 10 man, only 25 mans, meaning that 10 mans are at the level they were at in WOTLK more or less in asia (the same tuning as US, but they have access to better 25 man loot). That is also combined with the fact that they can get 2 raids worth of gear.

  10. #10
    Bloodsail Admiral Daedelus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeathDefier View Post
    To my knowledge that damage and health buff doesn't apply to 10 man, only 25 mans, meaning that 10 mans are at the level they were at in WOTLK more or less in asia (the same tuning as US, but they have access to better 25 man loot). That is also combined with the fact that they can get 2 raids worth of gear.
    Right, which means players can get the 25m gear (with the extra ilvls) and then go and do 10m if they hit a bump in the road - which is exactly what happened.

    The differences may be small, but they are significant enough to make the races incomparable.

    It's not dissimilar to how 25m guilds in WOTLK would faceroll 10 man content because they all had 25m gear.

  11. #11
    25 man has 8 item levels higher, and bosses in 25 man has 8% more dmg/health. Because Ilvl stats scale exponentially, that means you get more out of 8 item levels than just a 8% increase.
    Then there's the fact that some classes scale exceptionally well with gear - for example, my hunter in 550 Ilvl gets a 1.8% or so DPS increase, simply from a weapon upgrade (549->557). Hunters are well known for having extremely bad scaling, and get tons of mid-tier buffs to keep them aflot.
    Now consider a well-scaling class, who might get as much as 3% dps increase from a 8 item level weapon upgrade - and consider casters, who can break into new DoT breakpoints for extreme DPS increases, due to higher stat budgets. It's pretty safe to say, that the increase in gear is far bigger than the increase in health/damage warrants.

    Add this to the fact that, as stated, 10 and 25 has different lockouts - meaning you can clean up multiple of the easier heroic bosses on 10 man on your off-days, in order to get multiple shot at extreme BiS pieces (imagine if your casters could coin heroic immerseus twice a week for the AMP trinket, or agility users / healers do sha of pride twice - both are fairly easy encounters, can be knocked out in an hour or two if your main raid is 9/14+ heroic in 25 man. ESPECIALLY due to the higher item level). And of course, the tier bosses to get extra tokens to unlock sets quicker.
    With that in mind, it's quite obvious they can't be compared as the same race.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinnermighty View Post
    8 ilvls higher for 25m gear. 8% more damage and health to mobs in 25m. Separate 10 and 25 lockouts for current and previous tiers. Separate lockouts alone is a big deal, and 8ilvls slightly outweighs the 8% bump so combined it just isn't the same race compared to the west.

    Thus why wowprogress separated West and East rankings (still excludes CN).
    1 item level is more than a 1% increase. Going from 463 to 563 way more than doubles your dps.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Redrun View Post
    does the ilvl bump make up THAT much of a difference from boss health and damage bump? at its core game play is the same. It just sucks that wow asia goes something gets something first etc its often brushed aside.
    Yes it makes an insane difference. 1% would be huge, but checking their item levels we are talking 10-12% here which probalby translate to 30% damage increase for most classes. If my guild had a 10% buff to all stats from the start, we would have downed our current progression in half the time and we would stomp down the last few heroics quickly aswell.

    Personally I like the asian raiding model more, but as it is now, wow asia and wow world is quite different. I really wish people stopped comparing them. Downing Garrosh heroic in asia was a great accomplishment, yes, but it was a lot and a lot a lot easier than what paragon, depraved and sanitas are going through now on Garrosh. To even call the asian kill a world first is an insult to those guild. It would have been one thing if the asian guild actually was a 10 man guild, but it wasnt. The asians were a 25 man guild using their increased item level to kill it in 10 man. When asia kill Garrosh 25 man we can have another discussion. Even so it would be questionable as bosses got 8?% health, and their item level is causing them to do about 20-30% more dps and hps.
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  14. #14
    You are missing the main point. Leaving the ilvl difference aside, they have 2 lockouts, 1 for 10 man and 1 for 25 man.
    So the hardcore guilds do it twice a week and they have twice as much gear from the new raids. So if for west 3 weeks have passed since the beginning of the patch that equals to six weeks for Asia in terms of gearing.
    And that is the main reason why you can't compare both and the race is separated.

  15. #15
    The fact that it's "impossible" based off some ilevels makes me think Blizzard's current design is pretty flawed. Excellent play and decent gear should be a boss, normal or heroic. Ever since the introduction of heroic modes (Uld was so amazing we didn't consider it) the game has gone down hill. I liked having to kill bosses like Illidan once a week on a single character. We killed it, great, we get good loot. Back then, it was so much simpler.

    I'd love for them to merge heroic/normal together and make the difficulty in-between, causals still have LFR/flex and raiders get one single unified mode.


  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by iggie View Post
    The fact that it's "impossible" based off some ilevels makes me think Blizzard's current design is pretty flawed. Excellent play and decent gear should be a boss, normal or heroic. Ever since the introduction of heroic modes (Uld was so amazing we didn't consider it) the game has gone down hill. I liked having to kill bosses like Illidan once a week on a single character. We killed it, great, we get good loot. Back then, it was so much simpler.

    I'd love for them to merge heroic/normal together and make the difficulty in-between, causals still have LFR/flex and raiders get one single unified mode.

    First part -
    Excellent play + decent gear does beat a boss. The issue is that the guild do not have decent gear yet, they are *severely* undergeared compared to what they should be at, working on the very last encounter. Your average run-of-the-mill top 200 or so guild who inevitably gets Garrosh down, will end up in a much higher ilvl than the first who beat it, even though they have access to it weeks before (case and point - first Lei Shen kill was 525 average. Go to number 30, and you're looking at +535 average).

  17. #17
    Mechagnome Naer's Avatar
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    ilvl increases serve as a way to slowly nerf the content, allowing people to clear it as the tier progresses that otherwise would not have.

    I really do think they're in a separate race. Is their achievement laughable? Not in the slightest. But we do have to remember that they do have an advantage over everyone else.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    First part -
    Excellent play + decent gear does beat a boss. The issue is that the guild do not have decent gear yet, they are *severely* undergeared compared to what they should be at, working on the very last encounter. Your average run-of-the-mill top 200 or so guild who inevitably gets Garrosh down, will end up in a much higher ilvl than the first who beat it, even though they have access to it weeks before (case and point - first Lei Shen kill was 525 average. Go to number 30, and you're looking at +535 average).
    When I kill H garrosh I will have a much higher item level. My raid team is quite skilled, we just don't have the time needed to learn every single heroic boss in a single month to farm up ilevels for H garrosh. Had this been Vanilla/TBC/Naxx25, we'd of cleared the instance on the hardest difficulty a week to two weeks behind the first group.

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