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  1. #21
    I hope the chim buff stays, it hits like a wet noodle (pvp) atm.
    Maybe over buffed, but i'd say it def needed a buff. if it dropped to 30% or 25% i'd still be happy.

  2. #22
    May actually play SV full time now, tired of being BM.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by HonneurVilified View Post
    "How accurate are the sims, exactly?"
    I'd suspect that MM's sim is not anywhere near as close to accurate as BM/SV. It's unlikely to have seen much love in Mists.

  4. #24
    Female Dwarf has been updated. And boy is it interesting. Results for my gear (2pc, 556ilvl, 543 weapon)

    SV (DB, MoC, GT) - 258.5K
    MM (DB, MoC, GT) - 256.8k (Aimed only during CA and below 1.5 cast)
    MM (DB, MoC, GT) - 255.6k (Aimed-only rotation)
    BM (DB, BS, GT) - 251.4k

    So, if the changes stick, Survival comes out on top single target, with MM 2nd and BM now in 3rd (at least for me).

    If I equip a heroic warforged bow, I get

    MM - 292.2k
    SV - 277k

    I would imagine as the rest of the gear got upgraded, that gap would narrow, but with buffs now to both Aimed and Chimera, weapon damage scales so high now that MM could easily be #1 in BiS gear. And Powershot/Barrage will edge out Glaive, given they use weapon damage also.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Adaon View Post
    Female Dwarf has been updated. And boy is it interesting. Results for my gear (2pc, 556ilvl, 543 weapon)

    SV (DB, MoC, GT) - 258.5K
    MM (DB, MoC, GT) - 256.8k (Aimed only during CA and below 1.5 cast)
    MM (DB, MoC, GT) - 255.6k (Aimed-only rotation)
    BM (DB, BS, GT) - 251.4k

    So, if the changes stick, Survival comes out on top single target, with MM 2nd and BM now in 3rd (at least for me).

    If I equip a heroic warforged bow, I get

    MM - 292.2k
    SV - 277k

    I would imagine as the rest of the gear got upgraded, that gap would narrow, but with buffs now to both Aimed and Chimera, weapon damage scales so high now that MM could easily be #1 in BiS gear. And Powershot/Barrage will edge out Glaive, given they use weapon damage also.
    Holy tits! cant wait to play MM 2morrow!!!!

  6. #26
    With my gear I'm getting (DB, BS, GT)

    BM 227k
    SV 227k
    MM 224k

    Definitely warrants some testing tomorrow

  7. #27
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Testing with my Hunter(8.9 min duration):

    SV:
    DB+BS: 256740.98
    DB+aMoC: 257930.80
    Fervor+BS: 257111.81
    Fervor+aMoC: 257500.00

    Theoretical Best: DB+aMoC // In Practice Best: Fervor+BS

    BM:
    DB+BS: 257533.79
    DB+aMoC: 256101.60
    Fervor+BS: 254579.36
    Fervor+aMoC: 251163.46

    Theoretical Best: DB+BS // In Practice Best: DB+BS

    Theoretical best of SV beats Theoretical best of BM.

    I won't even bother trying to Sim MM, as it's just very derpy to sim. Need some real data on which truly is better; Hard cast all the time or Arcane shot dump /w Aimed under haste effects.

  8. #28
    MM = 256k (DB, Amoc, GT) Haste > Crit, Aimed shot manual + instants
    MM = 252k (DB, Amoc, GT) Haste > Crit, Careful Aim + instants
    Surv = 247k (Fervor, Amoc, GT) Haste > Crit
    Surv = 251k (Fervor, Amoc, GT) Crit > Haste
    BM = 251k (DB, BS, GT) Haste > Crit
    BM = 249k (DB, BS, GT) Crit > Haste

    I think I know what I'm doing tomorrow.

    Aimed Shot spam + Survival

    Been wanting to play MM since DS.
    Last edited by Jeremypwnz; 2013-09-24 at 06:59 AM.
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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    Testing with my Hunter(8.9 min duration) - stuffs
    Why do you only test DB and fervor? Since 5.4 isn't toth better than both in a realistic scenario, especially once 2p t16, or at least this is what I was lead to believe despite being a massive fan of fervor.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovan View Post
    I don't see the Chimera Shot buff staying, that looks incredibly unbalanced for PvP purposes. PvP aside if my math is correct, Survival is simming higher single target than Beast Mastery in full tier 16 BiS gear.
    Didnt they buff CS with 50% in the 5.3 PTR also, but then revereted due to PvP? I think it stays this time since the base resilience have been buffed and the buff is needed in PvE.

  11. #31
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntadin View Post
    Why do you only test DB and fervor? Since 5.4 isn't toth better than both in a realistic scenario, especially once 2p t16, or at least this is what I was lead to believe despite being a massive fan of fervor.
    I simmed them a few days back, TotH lost for me in both cases of BS and aMoC. Yes this was with 2pc T16.

  12. #32
    Im ok with it. I love to play MM and this just makes my day even better!

  13. #33
    Strange... For me FD sims:
    BM 258k
    SV 253

  14. #34
    The Lightbringer Ermahgerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redrun View Post
    it just might. chim shot hits like a limp dick in pvp
    In 5.3 my chimera shot oftenly crit for 60-70k. That would mean CS would crit for 90k-105k in 5.3. Of course, with the resil changes it changes a bit.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by dzidek View Post
    Strange... For me FD sims:
    BM 258k
    SV 253
    With or without Assurance of Consequence?

  16. #36
    High Overlord Solarflair's Avatar
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    Sim'd w/ 544 iLvl, T15 2pc, T16 2pc (MM DPS was in crit > haste build, yolo I guess)

    229,997.45 - MM, Aimed Shot hardcast always and instant (Dire Beast/AMoC)
    224,074.20 - Standard BM
    222,203.75 - MM, Aimed Shot hardcast always and instant (Dire Beast/Blink Strikes)
    219,608.68 - MM, Aimed hardcast during Careful Aim and instant only (ArS dump <80%)
    218,423.55 - MM, Aimed instant only (ArS dump during CA and <80%)

    Take with a grain of salt.
    As you can see I offered the always argued different variants of the MM playstyle.
    I'm surprised with a few sims ran with ToTH, or at least more ArS dumping with the T16 2pc, we didn't see an overwhelming DPS increase.
    Last edited by Solarflair; 2013-09-24 at 07:48 AM.

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  17. #37
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    554ilvl, T15/16 2pc, 561 weapon, no assurance

    BM DB/BS - 257367.21
    MM DB/AMoC - 257385.58 (AiS manual cast during careful aim + instant)
    SV DB/AMoC - 257021.27

  18. #38
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brydie View Post
    554ilvl, T15/16 2pc, 561 weapon, no assurance

    BM DB/BS - 257367.21
    MM DB/AMoC - 257385.58 (AiS manual cast during careful aim + instant)
    SV DB/AMoC - 257021.27
    Is this on FD? I have same Ilvl, weapon and no AoC, I sim "standard" BM up to 258k, and with the changes SV goes up to 261k and MM to 264k after some fine tunning on the shot priority.
    Disable AS during CA
    Steady shot in pairs
    manual cast and instant
    time to cast: 2/always (AS is not used at all)
    and reforged haste>crit

    The MM love is really great, but in what bosses are we gonna use it now that SV has been also buffed ST?
    NOT on Inmerseus normal or HC
    NOT on normal protectors where you can cleave them down, and NOT on HC when you can do the same single target dps as SV while keeping SrSs up on all/cleave phases as BM depending on your raid setup.
    Norushen is an option on both but SV is really going to perform better. There's a chance however to get advantage of instant aimeds/fast aimed casts on newly spawned adds
    Sha of pride tickles me as it may be the only not ST boss where MM AoE may keep up with SV or BM
    definetly NOT on galakras
    YES on Iron juggernaut.
    NOT on dark Shaman
    It can be a choice on Nazgrim
    Yes on Malkorok
    NOT on spoils
    Yes on Thok
    YEs on blackfuse, at least normal. Don't have much details about HC
    Paragons is a strictily ST fight but with very short CA phases, the other specs should be more consistent.
    You can definetly use it on garrosh, you will max DPS on him but not be able to pad with phase 1 adds.

    So far there are 3 bosses were MM has no disavantage, and there are 2 o 3 where you could play it but the other specs are likely to perform better on almost any realistic scenario, both SV and BM.

    That being said I cant wait to the reset to give it a long trial run.

    Also there's something I usually mention about MM that most people seem to undervalue. If you raid in 25 man groups, you are likely to have 2 or 3 warriors in raid which means 2 or 3 Skull Banners. Skull banners used during CA greatly benefit MM, more than any other of the specs. Having 3 warrs means you have 30 secs of 30% extra damage on AiS and SS( assuming the CA phase lasts these 30 sec), and CS crits, double dipping into 30% more Piercing Shots damage
    Last edited by pichuca; 2013-09-24 at 08:34 AM.

  19. #39
    I'll use MM on every fight but Immerseus, Nazgrim, and Thok, where I feel BM is way superior. Maybe Protectors as well for BM. Last time I used BM for spoils, my pet got stuck in a box..
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  20. #40
    Super excited and pumped up for the next raid!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Oh and for those with the Haromm trinket, the buff to SV could definitely make it even more attractive than ever.

    I'm not implying it wasn't 'good' to begin with but with SV getting such a ST DPS increase, it's definitely going to benefit the spec a bit more than BM since the trinket is based on hard hitting shots.

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