so massive demo nerf, slight aff nerf, destro buff

[Arrogant Bastard]

How about both you two knock it off and stop thread shitting?

OT:Now that we have a few days of raiding down, how is everyone perceiving the nerf?

[xskarma]

Okay, let's keep it on the topic of nerfs/buffs of the past week, and not drag in personal issues or dislikes. If this topic can't be discussed civily I'll likely just close the thread, since there's threads enough to discuss these issues anyway.

[Goosy]

I´ve played demo on few fights and i just gave up.
With 4 piece tier 16 the additional shadowflames might provide some extra molten core procs and DF but i do not have that yet.
Also i lack trinkets from SoO but.

Call me cry baby or what ever, but this change that´ve been made have pretty much ruined the joy of the game for me since demo was the nr 1 to go imo.

[Werst]

I went destro for heroic sha and was up there w' the dps warriors/tunnelers. Demo just doesn't have its nuts anymore. Could have compensated for losing UVLS, losing 30% off the imps is just too much. Messed with a high haste demo build but it still didn't perform any better than destro and took longer to ramp up. So for now its aff MS w' a destro OS.

Might still use it on heroic thok just for the FF/ToC spam getting around the fight's anti caster mechanics but can't really see using it anywhere else.

[Goosy]

Before the nerf the pool of DF was high.

Checking tier 16 bonuses it just felt like demo have the best benefit of em.
4P should provide more Molten core procs and DF.
Which should benefit the 2P with that.

Since it was so high before the nerf, is this the reason of it?
Once we hit HC SoO gear and 4P Demonology should have a good reg of DF and back in buisness?

Maybe its just me dreaming but i pray to god its true.

Any1 with 4P who knows how often it procs? Not mention can you instead of sitting on Shadowflame 2 have like Shadowflame x3-5? :O

[FurtyIRL]

My biggest problem with this was trinket procs vs shadow flame weaving. The worst case scenario being a shadowflame weave and uvls procs right after while meta is on cd. The only other option was to stay in meta until the cd wore out and you ended up wasting fury at non optimal times.

The problem with the trinket in general was that if you had it you were golden and if you didn't, gluck trying to compete. I believe that it was a much bigger dps increase than any of the legendaries. It did also introduce a much higher skill cap, especially on multi target. Tracking multiple rolling crit dooms to ensure you don't overwrite anything while at the same time making sure corruption stays up, you are watching procs and shadowflame weaving while popping in and out of meta seems to be a much higher level of awareness than what most other classes have to deal with. Fun times but wish I had the tf hm version instead of the normal/normal.

A large part of maximizing your dps was spending/banking your fury in such a way that you could do both — fury management and forethought really was one of the finer points of the spec.

If they had done UVLS in T15 the way it performed the first two weeks this tier there would have been a lot less complaints.

[Badahs]

A large part of maximizing your dps was spending/banking your fury in such a way that you could do both — fury management and forethought really was one of the finer points of the spec.

If they had done UVLS in T15 the way it performed the first two weeks this tier there would have been a lot less complaints.

Yeah, a basically guaranteed proc on pull is amazing.

[Hatelocker]

Did heroic Sha last night and the destruction felt really solid. Stomped everyone on reflection damage and shadowburning dying adds is always good. Boss damage was solid but nothing amazing but then I tried to always keep a few embers for reflections and having to run around constantly makes it hard to get CBs off. Other than CB no longer being tied to KJC it felt really good.

[DeadmanWalking]

I switched to Destro and ran a tot lfr because one guildie needed stones for legendary and the other needed to clear Troll LFR to move up to other wings to gear up. My DPS as Demo since nerf has been stuck at 140k and after switching to Destro and not having muscle memory or a complete understanding of the spec I pulled 175k dps. Demo feels like I am driving with the emergency brakes on but I do miss demon leap, it was great for last second saves from mechanics and for ignoring the threats in cliffs when zoming from Huolon to the Pirate ship.

[ringpriest]

Honestly, I was mad...then I read:

Unerring Vision of Lei Shen now has a 40% reduced chance to activate its effect for Warlocks.

Started looking for a chair to throw.

Yeah... so glad I stopped playing. My lock was the one toon I really enjoyed in MoP and that particular change is just a big "eff-you" to locks in particular. They might as well have replaced the loading screen with a big picture of Greg Street flipping the bird.

[Deleted]

I also swapped last night and practised my rotation on a dummy and then ventured to a Sc then a Hc Sc ramping up to an LFR
I must say playing Demon for the best part of 8 years, I am very much enjoying Destro and my new found burst of insane damage.

Some of my crits were ( I shit you not ) 930k ..made me grin at the screen.

[DeadmanWalking]

I also swapped last night and practised my rotation on a dummy and then ventured to a Sc then a Hc Sc ramping up to an LFR
I must say playing Demon for the best part of 8 years, I am very much enjoying Destro and my new found burst of insane damage.

Some of my crits were ( I shit you not ) 930k ..made me grin at the screen.

Yeah the big numbers were nice but we are essentially doing more damage from less sources, I miss seeing numbers from all the dots/demons/spells/imps/auras popping on the screen.

[Badahs]

what are you guys using for a grim on destro? I understand that supremacy + observer is best damage but grim of sac isn't so far off.

[Brusalk]

what are you guys using for a grim on destro? I understand that supremacy + observer is best damage but grim of sac isn't so far off.

Personal Preference/Dictated by fight mechanics. They're close enough that it doesn't really matter for single target.

[Badahs]

Personal Preference/Dictated by fight mechanics. They're close enough that it doesn't really matter for single target.

Thank you. I'm pretty excited to switch to destro tonight. Demo's historically constant dependence on gimmicks (uvls, moonwell chalice, mastery set switch before pull) and affliction's death by a thousand cuts underwhelm me. Haven't been destro since forever. Can't wait to hit a button and see a giant number pop up on my screen.

I really really hope the new simcraft is giving out correct numbers, otherwise I'll have to keep playing affliction while wallowing in a pool of my own tears.

[Werst]

Right now the gap between sup/sac for destro is within the noise of RNG variance. Personally I like the sac option. I was the highest caster on h.sha as destro. Was seeing better numbers on spoils (vs aff) but got so much hate from guildies who don't keep pace w' changes I was sort of forced back. Considering BL's vid has destro on it on the frontpage I believe some people owe me an apology...

I don't exactly buy into destro being stronger single target...and definitely not on multiple targets that live more than a couple gcds (say fallen protectors)...but its nice for fast on/off dps.

Each spec has its "cheese"....whether its aff snapshotting dots and SS'ing them around, demo doing some funky chicken trinket/mastery dance, or destro shadowburn/havoc sniping they all play the game.

[Badahs]

Right now the gap between sup/sac for destro is within the noise of RNG variance. Personally I like the sac option. I was the highest caster on h.sha as destro. Was seeing better numbers on spoils (vs aff) but got so much hate from guildies who don't keep pace w' changes I was sort of forced back. Considering BL's vid has destro on it on the frontpage I believe some people owe me an apology...

I don't exactly buy into destro being stronger single target...and definitely not on multiple targets that live more than a couple gcds (say fallen protectors)...but its nice for fast on/off dps.

Each spec has its "cheese"....whether its aff snapshotting dots and SS'ing them around, demo doing some funky chicken trinket/mastery dance, or destro shadowburn/havoc sniping they all play the game.

Def true regarding that each spec and every class I might add has it's own cheese mechanics. I just felt that with demo, the cheese was external and not related to skill (not saying demo doesn't take skill to play, obviously it does and you better be good at casting out your dooms in that 4 second window). W/ the other two, it's more about knowing how to snapshot or how to snipe rather than having an item that makes or breaks the spec.

Also I think if the sims are showing the grims as close then I have to assume that sac would be better in most situations since almost everything has multiple targets and you can aoe/multidot but your pet can't. Does that sound about right?

[Nayelie]

Last night, my guild played around with a few different bosses in flex, and the night before a few bosses in ToT. I am a huge demo fan, have played demo all through Cata and all through MoP. I like the higher skill cap, and working for my dps. That said, I am just an average player, not good at theorycrafting, and my guild isn't progression-oriented, so my gear just hit 530 ilvl yesterday.

Verdict: With a scruffy Affliction rotation, I did more DPS than a "perfected" Demonology rotation.

Excuse me while I cry over a bucket of ice cream.

[Mazda]

In some ways I welcome the change but I really did enjoy that RNG. A good demo lock could put up great numbers with any pattern of procs last tier, but when you had those attempts where everything just lined up perfect there was really nothing like it. The playstyle required you to be on your toes at all times and rewarded fluid execution. Demo without UVLS or imps just seems like shadowbolts to me.

That said I never expected them to let that trinket survive the tier ... but it's not without a little regret that I'm waving goodbye to possibly the most fun spec I've ever played.

Bringing tears to these eyes, bro. Tears...

[Deleted]

Shadowbolt is lowest in priority for demo