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  1. #281
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yjmark View Post
    It's not about if you call him out or not. It's more about "how" you call him out. Do you do it to embarrass him more and make him defensive? Or do you do it in a way that he has an opportunity to correct himself?
    As I said earlier you can't say it in a way that cannot be considered offensive, after all you have only the chat as means of communication, which is a fraktion of what is necessary to properly interact. It entirely depends on how easily offended the other person is.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    No, you compared your opining to a fact, and that is false. I put "round" in parenthesis for a reason, and its not because I think its 2D.

    Embarrassment is something you allow. Some people would not be embarrassed by that, and some would.

    It is not bullying.
    You were wrong just admit it.

    People cannot control whether they are embarrassed or not and because one act does not embarrass one individual did not does mean that act is acceptable or any less embarrassing to another person.

    If your actions cause another person to feel upset or uncomfortable this is a form of harassment and bullying. You have admitted that you call out players in order for them either to conform with you or leave the group which it does not take a massive leap in logic to work out that those on the receiving end of your calling out are going to feel uncomfortable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    As I said earlier you can't say it in a way that cannot be considered offensive, after all you have only the chat as means of communication, which is a fraktion of what is necessary to properly interact. It entirely depends on how easily offended the other person is.
    For starters it is incredibly difficult to communicate the intent and emotion behind the message in text and then is the issue that you have no idea about the person behind the character.

  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    You were wrong just admit it.

    People cannot control whether they are embarrassed or not and because one act does not embarrass one individual did not does mean that act is acceptable or any less embarrassing to another person.

    If your actions cause another person to feel upset or uncomfortable this is a form of harassment and bullying. You have admitted that you call out players in order for them either to conform with you or leave the group which it does not take a massive leap in logic to work out that those on the receiving end of your calling out are going to feel uncomfortable.
    No, I'm not wrong.

    Yes, you can control yourself.

    If you are upsetting me because you disagree or whatever, does that mean you are bullying me and I should report you? I believe cyber bullying is a bannable offense and even illegal in some areas.

    If I'm upset in game because others are afk or slacking, I guess they are bullying me too, and Blizzard should just permaban them?

    I have admitted that I bring it to the teams attention that a player is either AFK or not trying to help, after a wipe.

  4. #284
    Bloodsail Admiral Daedelus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amsden View Post
    Flex is my new LFR, I haven't stepped foot in LFR since 5.4 dropped and it has been awesome! The better casuals who couldn't devote set times to raid teams are probably doing flex over LFR too. Soon LFR will just be the really bad players who don't even want to try to improve and the elitist who just want to AFK the whole thing.

    Amen to that. Not set foot in 5.4 LFR yet and almost certainly won't unless I hear reports of an improvement. It was never that great but there was always a chance that a) you'd do it with guildies or b) you'd get proper raiders in there for VP and/or tier sets/trinkets or preferably both a) and b). Both those sets of players are now doing Flex so you can imagine what you're left with in LFR...

  5. #285
    Epic! Zaxio's Avatar
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    Well i learn something about LFR
    When you go there keep your mouth(keyboard) silent dont write anything. Just enter do your job ask blizz to give you 300g at the end for reapir bills and get out
    Last time i was with a DK alt a class who i dint play much i output 40-50k dps in SoO wing 1 but as good person i try to explain to the raid what they have to do to can we kill the boss and collect your rewards.What actually happens is that some dushback tank decide that i do too low dps
    Later i enter in his flex group with mine Main character and ofc i blow up the damage metters it was really strange how same that dude dint say nothing when i explain what ppl have to do on Sha of Pride

    Now i learn how to do damage with DK and going flex!!!
    Last edited by Zaxio; 2013-09-27 at 01:07 PM.

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    As I said earlier you can't say it in a way that cannot be considered offensive, after all you have only the chat as means of communication, which is a fraktion of what is necessary to properly interact. It entirely depends on how easily offended the other person is.
    I completely disagree. Putting all the ownus on the other person seems more like a cop out. There are a million ways to communicate via text, and they will all have varying degrees of effectiveness or offensiveness. You can easily text things in a way that has the best chance of not being construed as offensive. By choosing to ignore them, you really don't have a leg to stand on when someone misinterprets your intent.

    Of course, the other person (i.e. the recipient) also plays a role. But they do not hold 100% of the power to interpret intent. The person who is actually doing the communicating (i.e. the presenter) holds a majority of the power to get their intent across in a clear fashion.

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    No, I'm not wrong.

    Yes, you can control yourself.

    If you are upsetting me because you disagree or whatever, does that mean you are bullying me and I should report you? I believe cyber bullying is a bannable offense and even illegal in some areas.

    If I'm upset in game because others are afk or slacking, I guess they are bullying me too, and Blizzard should just permaban them?

    I have admitted that I bring it to the teams attention that a player is either AFK or not trying to help, after a wipe.
    You really are.

    Surely the onus should be on someone to control their behaviour in order to avoid embarrassing a fellow human being? It seems to me you are putting the responsibility on those that are embarrassed or offended by your behaviour rather than accepting that you should not behave in this way in the first place.

    If you feel that I am bullying you, and is your right to feel that way, then I apologise as that is not my intention. If you believe that behaviour is worthy of reporting to the authorities then again that is your right to do so however I believe you would have a hard time convincing anyone that you feel this way from your responses in this and the other thread.

    I am not sure how you could construe someone doing nothing as bullying but sure it's worth a try. I mean gotta remove those terribads from LFR by any means necessary.

  8. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    You really are.

    Surely the onus should be on someone to control their behaviour in order to avoid embarrassing a fellow human being? It seems to me you are putting the responsibility on those that are embarrassed or offended by your behaviour rather than accepting that you should not behave in this way in the first place.

    If you feel that I am bullying you, and is your right to feel that way, then I apologise as that is not my intention. If you believe that behaviour is worthy of reporting to the authorities then again that is your right to do so however I believe you would have a hard time convincing anyone that you feel this way from your responses in this and the other thread.

    I am not sure how you could construe someone doing nothing as bullying but sure it's worth a try. I mean gotta remove those terribads from LFR by any means necessary.
    No.

    Its not misbehaving to expect others to contribute. Asking them to do so isn't wrong.

    You said "you are bullied when you feel upset" and obviously this upsets a great deal of people. So yeah. with that logic, they are all big mean bullies.

    I actually do find it offensive that you would compare REAL bullying to someone getting kicked out of LFR for doing nothing. Its really sad, and a pathetic argument. Imagine those people who get their asses kicked at school every day, or those kids that are told only to kill themselves for being fat and ugly.

    Then you have old Pann. Crying a little tear of sadness because a group of 24 people decided to kick him out of LFR for doing 30K DPS, 95% being auto attack damage, and 5% being 1 single arcane shot.
    Last edited by Lemonpartyfan; 2013-09-27 at 01:44 PM.

  9. #289
    Wow is so easy, how can u be bad? Either u dont give a fuck if u are bad or do not know it but dont let other ppl suffer from it. If u dont like to improve or get better, go questing or enjoy pet battles.

    It feels like a lot of youngsters these days have a hard time to take criticism. If u tell some1 that they are bad or not doing that well they revert it to "oh u think u are so pro cockface". Ofc it aint funny to hear some1 telling u that u are bad but someday u'll prolly notice and in what way do u tell some that they suck other than straight up?
    Last edited by Hulkovius; 2013-09-27 at 01:53 PM.
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  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    I actually do find it offensive that you would compare REAL bullying to someone getting kicked out of LFR for doing nothing. Its really sad, and a pathetic argument. Imagine those people who get their asses kicked at school every day, or those kids that are told only to kill themselves for being fat and ugly.
    ... or told to leave LFR because their DPS is not good enough.

    The people behind the characters in LFR are real and so are their feelings.

  11. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    ... or told to leave LFR because their DPS is not good enough.

    The people behind the characters in LFR are real and so are their feelings.
    I didn't say I vehemently screamed at anyone to leave.

    Here is some easy readying for you :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_mentality

    The desert of sympathy is crucial in that the mere experience of a harmful event is not enough for the emergence of the sense of being a victim. In order to have this sense there is the need to perceive the harm as undeserved, unjust and immoral, an act that could not be prevented by the victim. The need to obtain empathy can then emerge
    stubborn: tending to reject suggestions or constructive criticism from others who listen and care; unable or reluctant to implement the suggestions of others for one's own benefit.
    defensive: In conversation, reading a non-existent negative intention into a neutral question and reacting with a corresponding accusation, hindering the collective solution of problems and instead creating unnecessary conflict.
    Last edited by Lemonpartyfan; 2013-09-27 at 02:19 PM.

  12. #292
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yjmark View Post
    I completely disagree. Putting all the ownus on the other person seems more like a cop out. There are a million ways to communicate via text, and they will all have varying degrees of effectiveness or offensiveness. You can easily text things in a way that has the best chance of not being construed as offensive. By choosing to ignore them, you really don't have a leg to stand on when someone misinterprets your intent.

    Of course, the other person (i.e. the recipient) also plays a role. But they do not hold 100% of the power to interpret intent. The person who is actually doing the communicating (i.e. the presenter) holds a majority of the power to get their intent across in a clear fashion.
    If you say something neutral, that could be considered an insult but is not meant as one and the other automatically assumes it is one, makes it obvious, that he or she is not willing to give the other person the benefit of the doubt, that the offer is genuine and not an insult. Refuting with a direct insult on the other hand tells us exactly what kind of person the other one is, since they overreacted.

    If they feel insulted and insult you, okay just put them on ignore, if they say no thanks that is fine as well leave them be, should they accept the offer, help them as best as possible.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  13. #293
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    I don't agree. If your SO says "you do less chores than me a week..." is s/he being disrespectful, or point out something you are doing wrong? There is no "nice" way to put this in a victims mind. "Your dps is low" "Are you doing your rotation correctly" "are you clipping embers" "are you using cooldowns" all of these things imply you might be doing something wrong. Someone will find a way to feel insulted no matter what.
    If my SO was notorious for being lazy that would be an insult. Otherwise, it's a statement of fact. Tanks are theoretically supposed to have low DPS, so reminding someone that even the tank is out-DPSing them is disrespectful. Don't you think they already know their DPS sucks? The nice way to point this out is to manipulate them into fessing up to it. So instead of leading with, "Your DPS sucks" you ask, "Why is X your most used skill when all the other warlocks I've seen mostly use Y?" At that point they will most likely admit that they don't know any better and now you've highlighted the problem without having to be a dick about it.

  14. #294
    The only time I bother to help in LFR is if someone whispers me asking for advice after seeing how awesome I am . In all seriousness though, I've tried to whisper people advice before if we are wiping and they either ignore me or go off on me. The only thing I'll do now is set stuff up, like on Lei Shen for example, because most people just stand around clueless until some random dps pulls.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Aymee/advanced

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  15. #295
    I noticed you are not good at providing tactful advise to people on the internet, If you like I can attempt to make you better.
    do what you feel.

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by Compstance View Post
    You, sir, win the game.
    I now feel good and approve this message

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacepunch View Post
    I noticed you are not good at providing tactful advise to people on the internet, If you like I can attempt to make you better.
    I giggled out loud at work, this made my day.

  17. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by Spacepunch View Post
    I noticed you are not good at providing tactful advise to people on the internet, If you like I can attempt to make you better.
    Brilliant!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    I didn't say I vehemently screamed at anyone to leave.

    Here is some easy readying for you :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_mentality
    You don't have to scream vehemently or otherwise at someone in order to humiliate, embarrass or upset them the act of rejection, alone, especially public rejection, is often a humiliating experience. How many times does it have to explained to you that you do not get to decide whether your actions are upsetting to another person? Different people react differently what you find acceptable might not the same as what someone else finds acceptable and to complicate matters even further people react differently depending on the mood they are in or the company they are keeping.

  18. #298
    Quote Originally Posted by Spacepunch View Post
    I noticed you are not good at providing tactful advise to people on the internet, If you like I can attempt to make you better.
    If you really think thats true, I will totally listen to a way to improve! =p

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Brilliant!!!

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    You don't have to scream vehemently or otherwise at someone in order to humiliate, embarrass or upset them the act of rejection, alone, especially public rejection, is often a humiliating experience. How many times does it have to explained to you that you do not get to decide whether your actions are upsetting to another person? Different people react differently what you find acceptable might not the same as what someone else finds acceptable and to complicate matters even further people react differently depending on the mood they are in or the company they are keeping.
    Asking someone to step it up isn't in any way how you paint it. If you are offended by this, grow some thicker skin. You should try your best to contribute to the group you are in, if you aren't you're purposefully burdening them, which is trolling.

    The group in the current LFR can decide what is acceptable.

  19. #299
    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkovius View Post
    It feels like a lot of youngsters these days have a hard time to take criticism.
    It feels like a lot of youngsters these days never learned how to give constructive criticism. Instead they unleash torrents of abuse at perfect strangers and their social skills are so lacking that they don't even realize they're being abusive. Then they have the gall to call it criticism.

    When I was growing up, speaking to strangers in the manner that players typically speak in this game would have earned me a stern lecture in the best case, and a slap in the mouth in the worst. I don't know where most WoW players were raised, but I guarantee that if they'd grown up in my house they would know better.

  20. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    Asking someone to step it up isn't in any way how you paint it. If you are offended by this, grow some thicker skin. You should try your best to contribute to the group you are in, if you aren't you're purposefully burdening them, which is trolling.

    The group in the current LFR can decide what is acceptable.
    You do not know and have no way of knowing whether that player is playing to their full potential instead you have decided that if they do not reach a target you have set for them they must not playing their best and they are disrespecting you. There are plenty of settings in WOW where it is perfectly acceptable to set targets and expect players to reach or exceed them LFR is not one of them. Your expectations of the players in LFR are unreasonable, Blizzard have purposely tuned the encounters so they can be completed by bad players.

    I am staggered that someone who has reached the age of 26 is unable to see that when they offend or upset someone it is them that is at fault and they should modify their behaviour in order to avoid or upsetting others rather than expecting others grow thicker skin.

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