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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Just answer me how is this particular sentence insulting? "hey , you're doing less dps then the tank, if you want I can help you with your rotation". I don't see anything offensive there, he simply offers help, assuming the other one needs it. Answering to that with mind your own fucking business is the only insult here.

    So I personally put such players on ignore and try to boot them from the lfr, which works in 80% of the time.
    Its insulting because its an arrogant and condescending way of calling out someones low dps. A better approach would have been asking the fellow what rotation he uses and then making a suggestion like - hey I find if I put spell y before x and then follow with q my dps soars, see if it works for you.
    When you call someone out you make them defensive, they didnt ask for your help or advice, in wow and in real life if you try your scenario I'm sure you'll find out asap people will get offended more often than not.
    Last edited by saucywench; 2013-09-24 at 04:05 PM.

  2. #22

  3. #23
    I have been kicked for being top DPS more than I have been kicked for being AFK.

    This game will die soon enough, which is a real shame as it was incredible back in Wrath (and TBC!!)

  4. #24
    Bloodsail Admiral Antherios's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tripping View Post
    I have been kicked for being top DPS more than I have been kicked for being AFK.

    This game will die soon enough, which is a real shame as it was incredible back in Wrath (and TBC!!)
    The game wont die, LFR will die (and im completely fine with that)

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Just answer me how is this particular sentence insulting? "hey , you're doing less dps then the tank, if you want I can help you with your rotation". I don't see anything offensive there, he simply offers help, assuming the other one needs it. Answering to that with mind your own fucking business is the only insult here.

    So I personally put such players on ignore and try to boot them from the lfr, which works in 80% of the time.
    Regardless of the truth of the statement, you can't ignore the fact that much of WoW social life involves random no-named people telling every one else that they're bad, so it's understandable that a statement such as that from a stranger comes off as offensive.

    If this doesn't make sense, I'm not sure what else to help you out with. =/

  6. #26
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saucywench View Post
    Its insulting because its an arrogant and condescending way of calling out someones low dps. A better approach would have been asking the fellow what rotation he uses and then making a suggestion like - hey I find if I put spell y before x and then follow with q my dps soars, see if it works for you.
    When you call someone out you make them defensive, they didnt ask for your help or advice, in wow and in real life if you try your scenario I'm sure you'll find out asap people will get offended more often than not.
    Why because it is a fact? If the guy does less damage than the tank and someone offers advice they can take or leave it, but to answer in such a manner shows that such people are not worth the hassle at all. I use this approach quite often at work and it usually turns out rather well,for example I told several people they were doing things far too complicated and showed them how they could finish their work a lot faster, they were rather grateful, but a few times people reacted in a similar fashion like the guy the op described, but most of the time they were unable to remain for long because they wouldn't heed advice from anyone and continued to make mistakes or were too slow, sometimes someone came asking a month or two later and then I wouldn't help, as such they get usually booted and I am never sad to see someone like that go. People who can't take help that is offered in a rather neutral way, don't deserve help at all.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by veehro View Post
    I have noticed this in my last LFR. When I told a fellow warlock "hey , you're doing less dps then the tank, if you want I can help you with your rotation".

    The reply i've got was "mind your own fucking business".

    I mean this is a game and it shouldn't be compared to real life where if 3 people try to move a couch and one doesn't put any effort in it, as long as the couch gets moved nobody should pick on the third guy who is just pretending to move it.

    But honestly I don't understand why every single rule in the game is protecting the people who don't try to improve. LFR has rewards that makes raiders interested enough to clear it and thus boost players who do have the gear but don't have the skill to do it.
    This encourages people to be lazy and i don't understand why.

    When the new patch came out and raiders stoped doing lfr as they were interested in soo , i was amused to see my friend wiping again and again at throne of thunder because there werent enough raiders to carry everebody.

    Oh well i digress. My point is, that i can hardly imagine how these people play LoL or dota2. If they can't stand even the most minor criticism, how can they stand the down right insults coming from a dota 2 team when you underperform

    This is nothing to do with wow, it seems to be people in general these days. Gone are the days people used to wisp me asking for advice as they had heard i knew my shit and wanted help. But its not localised to wow. i just started playing FF14 and was doing the first instance. I would CC a mob and this melee would literally go and dps it on every pack. I simply said in party 'mate attack the ones that arent cc'd'. The healer then chimes in saying its only early it doesnt matter'.

    Now this attitude pisses me off personally, cos if someone is new to a game and at the earliest opportunity your teaching them how to play shit then how do you expect them to deal with harder endgame content? I replied saying 'if you dont get into good habits now you'll pay later on in the game'. I was then berated that it was the healers friend and he was '12/12 nightmare mode on swtor so stfu'

    I couldnt help laughing and telling him that swtor is a terrible game to measure dicks against (considering when i played it we cleared all nightmare modes a couple weeks after they were out and isnt a patch on wow heroic difficulties - or even normals to be fair).

    People just dont want to be told anymore, or offered help or friendly advice, which is why i think in general it has simply devolved into people just shouting or calling people shit - because there is no point being polite anymore.

    The one thing i am glad about is currently in ff14 as i understand it, shit players simply WONT be able to do the instances to progress because there are too many 1 shot retard checks - which gives me hope (and means i'll stay away from pugging and just guild run shit). God bless retard check content.
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  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Antherios View Post
    The game wont die, LFR will die (and im completely fine with that)
    I wish that would happen, but the Devs don't seem like they are getting rid of LFR just yet, which is the only viable way of gearing up for current content, as nobody seems to run the old raids for gear

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    People who can't take help that is offered in a rather neutral way, don't deserve help at all.
    I would suggest avoiding the misconception that your skill or ability ever gives you the right to tell any other player how to play their character/class. That's a right you have to earn.

    Regardless of how retarded someone may be playing, it's their right to play that way. If you want to have an impact on another player, they have to WANT your advice.

    You seem to be stuck on how things "should be" instead of how things really are.

    It's a general life lesson when dealing with other human beings (not just in WoW) that trying to force everyone into how things "should be" rather than working WITH people in the boundaries of how things really are won't get you too far.

    Just like in management: the best bosses aren't the ones who jam down your throat how everything SHOULD BE. Those guys simply kill morale and make every one hate their jobs.

    The best bosses are the ones who realize how things REALLY ARE, work WITH people and help them get them where he wants them to be.

    It's the basic difference between a "manager" and a "leader."

    It's up to you if you want to go the route of pushing your advice on strangers, but you'll get a lot farther by opening them up to your advice instead of shutting them down to it.

    That's your choice, and your headache to deal with.

    Best of luck to you


    EDIT: I suppose I should note as well, that I am in no way an "I'm okay, you're okay" type player. If I'm running a raid, I expect performance. If they can't bring it, I'm not their babysitter, and they'll be gone very quickly. So please no notes about how I'm "too easy" on people or anything like that. I don't run raids to teach people how to play, I run them to get shit done, therefore I expect people who know what they're doing, and people like those in this scenario wouldn't be in a raid of mine to begin with. The issue at hand, however, is how to offer advice to strangers in LFR, and that's where my advice comes from.
    Last edited by Louis CK; 2013-09-24 at 04:36 PM.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by yjmark View Post
    That may not have been the best way to start a conversation. If you really want to help someone, you don't start by insulting them because it immediately puts them on the defensive. Yes, it may have been true. However, it is still a backhanded insult.

    If you would've started the conversation with something like "I have a warlock too, and I might be able to give you some tips on improving your DPS if you are interested". It might turn out different. A majority of the time I offer to help people, I get positive responses.
    No that's not insulting them and if they find saying "your doing less dps than the tank" insulting then they would find "Im better at warlock than you" insulting also.

    If they don't want to improve they wont, and they will show it by cussing and being immature when people try to help them because they are the true "special snowflakes" the ones that want everything done for them because they pay to play.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tripping View Post
    I wish that would happen, but the Devs don't seem like they are getting rid of LFR just yet, which is the only viable way of gearing up for current content, as nobody seems to run the old raids for gear
    Regardless of what company line GC and the other devs shout out flex is definitely intended to overtake LFR, either next expansion or towards the one after LFR rewards will be GREATLY diminished to the point of it's hardly worth doing, they just want to make sure enough do flex first.

  12. #32
    Legendary! Spl4sh3r's Avatar
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    As long as you don't give people a website to visit to "work" to play a game then I would say go for it. I mean if you play for fun you don't want to read a book just to learn how to play. Just give them small tips and tricks to make them better. Such as a small spell rotation they can use, something like use X then Y.

  13. #33
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Compstance View Post
    I would suggest avoiding the misconception that your skill or ability ever gives you the right to tell any other player how to play their character/class. That's a right you have to earn.

    Regardless of how retarded someone may be playing, it's their right to play that way. If you want to have an impact on another player, they have to WANT your advice.

    You seem to be stuck on how things "should be" instead of how things really are.

    It's a general life lesson when dealing with other human beings (not just in WoW) that trying to force everyone into how things "should be" rather than working WITH people in the boundaries of how things really are won't get you too far.

    Just like in management: the best bosses aren't the ones who jam down your throat how everything SHOULD BE. Those guys simply kill morale and make every one hate their jobs.

    The best bosses are the ones who realize how things REALLY ARE, work WITH people and help them get them where he wants them to be.

    It's the basic difference between a "manager" and a "leader."



    It's up to you if you want to go the route of pushing your advice on strangers, but you'll get a lot farther by opening them up to your advice instead of shutting them down to it.
    You don't seem to get the point, people can refuse help I have no problems with that, if they refuse in such a manner on the other hand they can burn in a fire for all I care. Usually I present them with an option and will interact with them, depending on their answer.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  14. #34
    Pandaren Monk Forgettable's Avatar
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    I have had a number of people whisper me (in LFR or otherwise) asking for advice regarding how to play a DK, or more specific questions. I assume they see my top dps or gear or something. These are the kind of people that can improve, because they want to improve and make an effort to do so. I gladly spend a few minutes sharing my knowledge, and they end up better players for it. It makes me happy

    But then there are those who are noobs, and never want to improve, or who think they are WoW gods.

    This comic seems strangely applicable...
    http://www.darklegacycomics.com/408.html
    Quote Originally Posted by Delti View Post
    If Forgettable knew what he was doing with his keyboard, I would totally kick his ass in dps!
    ^ My guild leader while drunk.

  15. #35
    Maybe you should've considered his feeling before offering him help.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Compstance View Post
    I would suggest avoiding the misconception that your skill or ability ever gives you the right to tell any other player how to play their character/class. That's a right you have to earn.
    Don't get upset when people dont want unsolicited advice. Its similar to walking up to a stranger on the street and telling them how they can dress better. Maybe you mean well, maybe you don't. Either way, its generally rude of you.

  17. #37
    OP, while you are busy being a granny to a total stranger, the rest of the raid is fighting and moving on. Keep it for your own guild and maybe not in a raid

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by veehro View Post
    Oh well i digress. My point is, that i can hardly imagine how these people play LoL or dota2. If they can't stand even the most minor criticism, how can they stand the down right insults coming from a dota 2 team when you underperform
    Really? I have not played much lately mostly specifically because of this exact kind of mentality. I'm not very good, and when I did play I would get yelled at a lot for "feeding" and general all around bad play. Not in a friendly helpful way more in a "stop fucking up my chances of winning, you stupid n00b" kind of way. I heard DotA is even worse (which is honestly hard to imagine).

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Azahel View Post
    Feelings decrease your DPS
    These are known as Feels Per Second.

    But OT, some people are just hypersensitive about their playing, basically you have to be careful how you say it, and even then that doesn't always help with certain people unfortunately.
    It's LeviOsa, not LeviosAR!

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saffa View Post
    OP, while you are busy being a granny to a total stranger, the rest of the raid is fighting and moving on. Keep it for your own guild and maybe not in a raid
    Whilst I agree with you to a point, the analogy falls down because that person dressing poorly in the street isn't directly affecting you or slowing you down

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