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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Thelxi View Post
    For all you know that is his alt in unenchanted ungemmed blues while his main is 20 ilvls higher than you. Pointing out to strangers that they are doing less dps than the tank is rude and unnecessary. Next time you feel the urge to spread knowledge leave out the insult.
    If he's in blues, he's shouldn't have the ilvl to queue for LFR. Enchanting and gemming isn't expensive -- I don't go out of my way to make gold and I've managed to maintain enchants and gems on every piece of new gear I've gotten on my main and my alt for the entire expansion. Your excuse is just that, an excuse. A bad excuse.

    I agree that his delivery was wrong, but his point was 100% spot on. If someone is doing less DPS in ToT LFR than I was doing at level 85 (or even when I started level 90 heroics at the start of the expansion), then that's a problem that they need to fix before they queue for ToT.

  2. #42
    Scarab Lord Mokoshne's Avatar
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    people take their dps personally, which is surprising tbh. they should know better.
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  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by veehro View Post
    I have noticed this in my last LFR. When I told a fellow warlock "hey , you're doing less dps then the tank, if you want I can help you with your rotation".

    The reply i've got was "mind your own fucking business".

    I mean this is a game and it shouldn't be compared to real life where if 3 people try to move a couch and one doesn't put any effort in it, as long as the couch gets moved nobody should pick on the third guy who is just pretending to move it.

    But honestly I don't understand why every single rule in the game is protecting the people who don't try to improve. LFR has rewards that makes raiders interested enough to clear it and thus boost players who do have the gear but don't have the skill to do it.
    This encourages people to be lazy and i don't understand why.

    When the new patch came out and raiders stoped doing lfr as they were interested in soo , i was amused to see my friend wiping again and again at throne of thunder because there werent enough raiders to carry everebody.

    Oh well i digress. My point is, that i can hardly imagine how these people play LoL or dota2. If they can't stand even the most minor criticism, how can they stand the down right insults coming from a dota 2 team when you underperform

    Welcome to LFR lol.

  4. #44
    Most people don't consider that it has nothing to do with skill level or even rotation. Some fights are not friendly to the ramp up time it takes to get to competitive dps like the Sha of Fear. as a ranged and melee you have to constantly move around in the Sha possessed archer phase and even then if mechanics pull you into a prison like in the Sha of Pride all of your momentum is lost and your dps plummets.

    Sometimes the dps meters actually do make dps strive to improve or squeak out a few higher numbers. However those same people end up having to stand in fire, absorb uneccessary damage healers have to clean up and attack those who come in second as a result.

    However you still don't have any business telling anyone how to play their class you don't even know. Just wait for them to ask you first and let it go.

  5. #45
    Mechagnome Dragore's Avatar
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    It amazes how a lot of people on MMOC just have absolute no idea as to how humans react to others humans in certain situations.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragore View Post
    It amazes how a lot of people on MMOC just have absolute no idea as to how humans react to others humans in certain situations.
    I just want to post a rainbow here. Right here under your quote to highlight this for all to see.

  7. #47
    I am Murloc! Airwaves's Avatar
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    Well mind your own fucking business. I am always in the top 3 in dps in LFR and I still can't blame this guy for telling you to stfu. Only help people in wow if they ask for it. If not mind your own business.
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  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by yjmark View Post
    That may not have been the best way to start a conversation. If you really want to help someone, you don't start by insulting them because it immediately puts them on the defensive. Yes, it may have been true. However, it is still a backhanded insult.
    Not sure I'd say it's really an insult... tank damage is pretty high these days, when I take my tanks to LFR I expect to be ahead of at least half the dps if not all but 1-2 of them.

    That said, it is still probably a bad way to start out that statement, since losing to the tank can either be embarrassing or it could be expected. I could bring my DK tank to that same LFR and I don't think the OP would want another warlock whispering him that he was losing to the tank when it's because the tank is doing very high damage.

    Perhaps a better way to phrase it would have been "Hey, I see you've got some room to improve your DPS, I could give you some pointers if you like?" Honestly though, many people seem to have no desire to improve and will still blow you off, but maybe they wouldn't be AS rude.
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
    Well mind your own fucking business. I am always in the top 3 in dps in LFR and I still can't blame this guy for telling you to stfu. Only help people in wow if they ask for it. If not mind your own business.
    What if they don't know they're doing bad and would happily accept help?

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  10. #50
    Mechagnome drake741's Avatar
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    I'm stunned by how many people are telling the OP he was wrong. Did you not read the response? How can anyone correct the OP and in the same breath say LFR is for the dregs of WoW?

    My brain is full of wat from this thread.

    I applaud the OP for calling a spade a spade and still offering to help when he had no reason or obligation to do so.
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  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Lastlivingsoul View Post
    Most people don't consider that it has nothing to do with skill level or even rotation. Some fights are not friendly to the ramp up time it takes to get to competitive dps like the Sha of Fear. as a ranged and melee you have to constantly move around in the Sha possessed archer phase and even then if mechanics pull you into a prison like in the Sha of Pride all of your momentum is lost and your dps plummets.

    Sometimes the dps meters actually do make dps strive to improve or squeak out a few higher numbers. However those same people end up having to stand in fire, absorb uneccessary damage healers have to clean up and attack those who come in second as a result.

    However you still don't have any business telling anyone how to play their class you don't even know. Just wait for them to ask you first and let it go.
    Anyone doing 30k dps is certainly a matter of skill on ANY fight. If you sincerely believe that an even remotely skilled player in 496+ gear required for SoO LFR can do that low of dps on any of the fights in SoO, then you live in a fantasy land. You do have a valid point that DPS is affected by other factors, but there's a limit on that impact, and skill MITIGATES that impact.

    For example, a skilled player on Sha of Fear didn't have to move very much for those bolts because they know how to move the minimum safe distance whereas I've seen unskilled players running like chickens with their heads cut off because they think that when they get targeted they need to move to the other end of the platform. It's all a matter of skill, to believe otherwise is folly.
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  12. #52
    Mechagnome drake741's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragore View Post
    It amazes how a lot of people on MMOC just have absolute no idea as to how humans react to others humans in certain situations.
    OP: Hey man, it's really hot out and everyone else moved to the shade and I noticed your skin is red and you stopped sweating. I have some water if you...
    Response: mind your own fucking business

    Can you believe the balls on that first guy? What? Does he think I don't know what dehydration and heat stroke are? He just called me an idiot didn't he?!

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  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by drake741 View Post
    OP: Hey man, it's really hot out and everyone else moved to the shade and I noticed your skin is red and you stopped sweating. I have some water if you...
    Response: mind your own fucking business

    Can you believe the balls on that first guy? What? Does he think I don't know what dehydration and heat stroke are? He just called me an idiot didn't he?!

    This one act morality play was brought to you by a generous donation from the YouHaveGotToBeKiddingMe Foundation.
    Communication is less about what you say, and more about what the other person hears. If you're attempting to communicate properly with someone, you need to know how your information is being received.

    The statement you made may be how the OP INTENDED his statement to come across, but the reception of that statement more than likely came across as "why are you so fucking red? gross. you want some water?"

    Again, regardless of how true a statement may be, if you do not communicate it effectively to your audience (in this case the poor playing warlock), your audience will shut down and all you have are empty words.

    The real sad part here is that many in the thread (because the OP's statement is true, and it's true that the warlock was bad/unskilled) think it's okay to communicate in an offensive manner and get upset when they receive the same in return.

    It boils down to this: people want to give advice in any way they choose and demand that it be accepted. That's not how things work, regardless of whether or not it's based on accurate information.

    And all too often, statements like the OP made (not saying he intended it this way) are made that way BECAUSE the person is trying to give a backhanded insult, and then offer help out of a feeling of superiority. If someone was REALLY wanting to help, they would take the time to communicate effectively, not offer an insult followed by charity advice.

  14. #54
    Immortal Sigma's Avatar
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    if shit dies, I leave them to it.
    if shit don't die, I leave it to the rest of the raid to sort out.

    basically I just keep quiet, Enjoy the TV show or music I'm listening to, pew pew the boss and move on.
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  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Lastlivingsoul View Post
    However you still don't have any business telling anyone how to play their class you don't even know. Just wait for them to ask you first and let it go.
    Except the OP never told them how to play their class. He offered to help if the player wanted it. There was no "do this, do that," no use of "noob", "idiot", etc.

    The players' caustic response makes me think of people in RL that get mad when someone else holds a door open for them, or offers to help carry a heavy object. Helping another person is not automatically a statement of superiority, and the OP's less-than-ideal opening statement ("your dps is lower than the tank's") still does NOT justify such a horribly rude response. A simple "no thank you" would have done the job, and I don't think those three words are too difficult to type for most well-adjusted human beings.

  16. #56
    Mechagnome Dragore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Compstance View Post
    Communication is less about what you say, and more about what the other person hears. If you're attempting to communicate properly with someone, you need to know how your information is being received.

    The statement you made may be how the OP INTENDED his statement to come across, but the reception of that statement more than likely came across as "why are you so fucking red? gross. you want some water?"

    Again, regardless of how true a statement may be, if you do not communicate it effectively to your audience (in this case the poor playing warlock), your audience will shut down and all you have are empty words.

    The real sad part here is that many in the thread (because the OP's statement is true, and it's true that the warlock was bad/unskilled) think it's okay to communicate in an offensive manner and get upset when they receive the same in return.

    It boils down to this: people want to give advice in any way they choose and demand that it be accepted. That's not how things work, regardless of whether or not it's based on accurate information.

    And all too often, statements like the OP made (not saying he intended it this way) are made that way BECAUSE the person is trying to give a backhanded insult, and then offer help out of a feeling of superiority. If someone was REALLY wanting to help, they would take the time to communicate effectively, not offer an insult followed by charity advice.
    You complete me.

  17. #57
    Scarab Lord namelessone's Avatar
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    Don't give advice if the person doesn't ask for it. More importantly, when you give UNWANTED advice, don't expect appreciation for it.
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  18. #58
    Not everyone can play properly. Many people are poor at games and have no real desire to get better. That's not why they're here.

    Also, many years of experience has taught me that bad players don't know they're bad, and will get upset when they realise. Having a complete stranger pointing it out doesn't really help the issue.

    All you can do it bite your tongue, boost the group, get your loot as quickly and painlessly as possible and get the hell out of there.

  19. #59
    Scarab Lord namelessone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmist View Post
    Not everyone can play properly. Many people are poor at games and have no real desire to get better. That's not why they're here.

    Also, many years of experience has taught me that bad players don't know they're bad, and will get upset when they realise. Having a complete stranger pointing it out doesn't really help the issue.

    All you can do it bite your tongue, boost the group, get your loot as quickly and painlessly as possible and get the hell out of there.
    What if I told you that many players you think of as "bad" don't really care what you think of their skill and don't care about trying to make you think they are "good". For example, to me, being "bad" has absolutely nothing to do with your performance.
    The night is dark and full of terrors...

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by namelessone View Post
    What if I told you that many players you think of as "bad" don't really care what you think of their skill and don't care about trying to make you think they are "good". For example, to me, being "bad" has absolutely nothing to do with your performance.
    I would say that you just repeated most of what the person you quoted said...

    Many people are poor at games and have no real desire to get better. That's not why they're here.
    many players you think of as "bad" don't really care what you think of their skill and don't care about trying to make you think they are "good".
    Yeah... just about the same.

    At any rate, you are correct that "bad" is a subjective term, but you seem to have missed the point that he defined his meaning of it rather clearly as "poor performance" so arguing semantics with him is kind of a waste of time, he clearly doesn't care what you take bad to mean, he defined it in his context.

    At any rate, he wasn't indicating that he thinks low performance players all need to get better, he was simply stating most of them don't care to, which is true. Now, I could point out the obvious rudeness of wasting another person's time by intentionally performing more poorly than you could be, but I bet that would, also, be a waste of time.
    I am the Druid Jesus, and I approve of this message.
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