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  1. #61
    The Lightbringer OzoAndIndi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by veehro View Post
    But honestly I don't understand why every single rule in the game is protecting the people who don't try to improve. LFR has rewards that makes raiders interested enough to clear it and thus boost players who do have the gear but don't have the skill to do it.

    This encourages people to be lazy and i don't understand why.
    If they're lazy, that's on them then... What's messed up is that someone is going to act like an oversensitive ass in response when you offer help in, I assume, a friendly way. I mean if they don't care then a no thanks would have been sufficient then let it go.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    How is that insulting? It is simply the truth, he can heed the advice or not, but the way his answer told us all that needs to be known, that he is a waste of space, he could have said no thank you, or something like that after all. If people do poor dps, they should let at least acknowledge that fact.
    Yeah, imagine you're at work and a collague comes up with "You suck at [whatever it is you're doing], want me to tell you what to do?" and see how interested you are in anything else he has to say.

  3. #63
    Scarab Lord namelessone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mysticx View Post
    Yeah, imagine you're at work and a collague comes up with "You suck at [whatever it is you're doing], want me to tell you what to do?" and see how interested you are in anything else he has to say.
    Expect a lengthy reply about how he totally appreciates all "good" advises he gets in real life, and he would totally not mind if someone told him straight up about what he's doing wrong and how to improve. Old story.
    The night is dark and full of terrors...

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by namelessone View Post
    What if I told you that many players you think of as "bad" don't really care what you think of their skill and don't care about trying to make you think they are "good". For example, to me, being "bad" has absolutely nothing to do with your performance.
    And that's why it's all a matter of preference. Your lack of involvement with performance doesn't make his involvement any less important.

    I don't watch sports, but I can only imagine that those who do would scoff at the thought that "it doesn't matter how good my team plays as long as they have fun at it." For me, it's the same thing. I play to compete, both with myself and with the raid content. I push myself, I drive myself to improve, because I enjoy striving to be the best at what I do.

    My definition of a good player differs from yours. Does it matter? Not one bit.

  5. #65
    Dreadlord Ironjaws-Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mysticx View Post
    Yeah, imagine you're at work and a collague comes up with "You suck at [whatever it is you're doing], want me to tell you what to do?" and see how interested you are in anything else he has to say.
    I would nod and ask him to teach me so I make it right. But that is me, that want to improve and do my best, at least in work.

    Rather bad comparisment really, even if I understand what you try to say.

  6. #66
    Mechagnome drake741's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Compstance View Post
    Communication is less about what you say, and more about what the other person hears. If you're attempting to communicate properly with someone, you need to know how your information is being received.

    The statement you made may be how the OP INTENDED his statement to come across, but the reception of that statement more than likely came across as "why are you so fucking red? gross. you want some water?"

    Again, regardless of how true a statement may be, if you do not communicate it effectively to your audience (in this case the poor playing warlock), your audience will shut down and all you have are empty words.

    The real sad part here is that many in the thread (because the OP's statement is true, and it's true that the warlock was bad/unskilled) think it's okay to communicate in an offensive manner and get upset when they receive the same in return.

    It boils down to this: people want to give advice in any way they choose and demand that it be accepted. That's not how things work, regardless of whether or not it's based on accurate information.

    And all too often, statements like the OP made (not saying he intended it this way) are made that way BECAUSE the person is trying to give a backhanded insult, and then offer help out of a feeling of superiority. If someone was REALLY wanting to help, they would take the time to communicate effectively, not offer an insult followed by charity advice.
    I couldn't agree any more, however the root problem is an asshole doing his best to get carried and literally telling others to fuck off. There is no redeeming quality there, and the burden to communicate lands on NO ONE. This particular type of person in these particular circumstances should be swiftly kicked from every group they sneak in to. The OP luckily took it upon himself to at least test the waters. No one knew this guy was a total dick until he was engaged.
    "I feel bad for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." - Frank Sinatra

  7. #67
    LFR does encourage people to be lazy. Personal exp as source. I just really ENJOYED slacking off in LFR pugs. Just sitting behind others eating ice cream while pretending to be DPSing by using Crackling Jade Lightning ( WW Monk )

    Actually the fact I always had 1 fps during boss fights contributed the most. I simply couldn't do anything so to do atleast some DPS I decided to use casted spells ( or channeled and yes it helped ).

    A lot of times people got mad at me and stuff....But I rememeber 2-3 times, when my FPS for some reason was varying between 10 and 13 I was like "Woah I can move. Well I guess I will DPS this time." I pulled off top DPS all 2-3 times.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by mysticx View Post
    Yeah, imagine you're at work and a collague comes up with "You suck at [whatever it is you're doing], want me to tell you what to do?" and see how interested you are in anything else he has to say.
    If somebody comes up to you at work and offers to help you improve (OP didn't use the word suck, he seemed quite friendly about it) then you'd be wise to listen.

    If you don't listen odds are you'll carry on being shit and get sacked

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by drake741 View Post
    I couldn't agree any more, however the root problem is an asshole doing his best to get carried and literally telling others to fuck off. There is no redeeming quality there, and the burden to communicate lands on NO ONE. This particular type of person in these particular circumstances should be swiftly kicked from every group they sneak in to. The OP luckily took it upon himself to at least test the waters. No one knew this guy was a total dick until he was engaged.
    Oh, don't get me wrong, there are those people that just want to be lazy dicks. That's why 99.9% of the time I don't offer advice to anyone unless they specifically ask for it (well, that and in most cases I just don't care what every one else is doing in something like LFR).

    I'm mainly attempting to help the OP with finding more success in the future with his giving of advice, haha.

    Either way, the liklihood of getting a "fuck off" response is much higher when you begin with a "fuck off" statement.
    Last edited by Louis CK; 2013-09-24 at 07:30 PM.

  10. #70
    Brewmaster Caninese's Avatar
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    When it comes to video games, I'm usually a sociopath. To me, the players are just an advanced form of NPC, simple variables that I hope will add up to the equation being my victory. If the variables fail, I seek to rid myself of them.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caninese View Post
    When it comes to video games, I'm usually a sociopath. To me, the players are just an advanced form of NPC, simple variables that I hope will add up to the equation being my victory. If the variables fail, I seek to rid myself of them.
    Out of interest if this is the case why do you choose to play an MMO rather than a single player game?

  12. #72
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mysticx View Post
    Yeah, imagine you're at work and a collague comes up with "You suck at [whatever it is you're doing], want me to tell you what to do?" and see how interested you are in anything else he has to say.
    More like, you know there is another way you can get this done a lot faster, if you are interested, should he or she blow up because of something like that, they are not worth the time, very simple.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  13. #73
    Pit Lord Asmodias's Avatar
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    Okay so... Unsolicited "You are bad, I can help" comments. People do this and expect the other person to be all happy about it?!? People just want to play and don't want to be called out. It doesn't matter what the reason. If you don't know the person...keep these comments and offers to yourself.

    I don't understand why this concept is so hard for people to grasp. Even if you are the kind of person who is okay with others telling you that you are bad and that they can fix it... Not everyone likes that kind of stuff. Worry less about what other people are doing and worry more about what you are doing. And if the failing person is a key detriment to what you are doing, vote kick them...


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  14. #74
    Scarab Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asmodias View Post
    Okay so... Unsolicited "You are bad, I can help" comments. People do this and expect the other person to be all happy about it?!? People just want to play and don't want to be called out. It doesn't matter what the reason. If you don't know the person...keep these comments and offers to yourself.

    I don't understand why this concept is so hard for people to grasp. Even if you are the kind of person who is okay with others telling you that you are bad and that they can fix it... Not everyone likes that kind of stuff. Worry less about what other people are doing and worry more about what you are doing. And if the failing person is a key detriment to what you are doing, vote kick them...
    What if said person doesn't know they're playing bad and then all of a sudden gets booted without knowing why?

    You're stuck in an endless cycle

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Asmodias View Post
    Okay so... Unsolicited "You are bad, I can help" comments. People do this and expect the other person to be all happy about it?!? People just want to play and don't want to be called out. It doesn't matter what the reason. If you don't know the person...keep these comments and offers to yourself.

    I don't understand why this concept is so hard for people to grasp. Even if you are the kind of person who is okay with others telling you that you are bad and that they can fix it... Not everyone likes that kind of stuff. Worry less about what other people are doing and worry more about what you are doing. And if the failing person is a key detriment to what you are doing, vote kick them...
    And how is it so hard to just say "no thank you" when someone offers unwanted help? The OP's offer doesn't justify a reply as toxic as "mind your own fucking business."

    I love how this thread is mostly people telling the OP to keep to himself/herself and assume that all mediocre players want to be mediocre. Sure, his/her opening statement wasn't an ideal way to approach someone, but why is almost everyone here flipping out about someone offering to help a complete stranger? In the real world, helping out a stranger is praised and considered a selfless thing to do. Here, people are acting like it's some sort of social cardinal sin. *Sigh*

    Why are we ignoring the fact that the other players' response was completely uncalled for and childish? That sort of behavior shouldn't be tolerated so much by other players. It breeds and spreads, and apathy towards it is why WoW has one of the worst online communities next to LoL.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Just answer me how is this particular sentence insulting? "hey , you're doing less dps then the tank, if you want I can help you with your rotation". I don't see anything offensive there, he simply offers help, assuming the other one needs it. Answering to that with mind your own fucking business is the only insult here.

    So I personally put such players on ignore and try to boot them from the lfr, which works in 80% of the time.
    You sound so ignorant and insensitive.

    You don't even consider logic and common sense. What a shame.

    I hope you're trolling because I don't understand your griefish ways.

  17. #77
    Mechagnome drake741's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norgannon the Dreamweaver View Post
    You sound so ignorant and insensitive.

    You don't even consider logic and common sense. What a shame.

    I hope you're trolling because I don't understand your griefish ways.
    Now thats no way to adequately communicate a meaningful response to someone...

    ... and by that, I mean I think you finally understand that people need to toughen up a little.
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  18. #78
    Herald of the Titans Geminiwolf's Avatar
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    I wouldn't mind if someone offered me advice to improve my performance as long as they aren't like "dude your dps sucks, do better or im gonna kick you". I've got to say though, I've been playing this game for about 6 years now without any advice from people other than my friend who introduced me to the game and to this day I've been doing a pretty good job as a DPS or a tank without the help of anybody. Granted, I get the occasional douchebag who says im a bad player and would just kick me for no reason but other than that I've had no problems. So I'm not saying you shouldn't offer advice to people it's just with me, I like to play the game my own way instead of doing it the "correct" way. I value fun over being the best player in any game whether it's for competition or just a single player game. So saying that, this could've been the case for this warlock also who you offered advice to. I think it's great that you respectfully offer advice I'm just saying some people, like me, log on to WoW to just have a good time and some of those people, not me, react negatively to offered advice no matter how respectful the person giving the advice may be.
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  19. #79
    Bloodsail Admiral Lazuli's Avatar
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    People can't handle the fact they are bad so when you point it out of course you get an asshole response. Just ignore the terrible players and move on - half this playerbase probably don't even search their rotation when they hit 90 or learn how to gem or enchant. Fuck it, it's only at other peoples expense in a raid or dungeon anyway right? YOLO!
    Quote Originally Posted by KungFuFanta
    Oh my god, a company tries to put some lore flavor into the game mechanics, all is lost, whatever shall we do without a whole 1% of crit or haste.

    Quick, call Ukraine and Russia, let them know to put their conflict on standby because Touch of Elune is BULLSHIT!

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Just answer me how is this particular sentence insulting? "hey , you're doing less dps then the tank, if you want I can help you with your rotation". I don't see anything offensive there, he simply offers help, assuming the other one needs it. Answering to that with mind your own fucking business is the only insult here.

    So I personally put such players on ignore and try to boot them from the lfr, which works in 80% of the time.
    If you don't understand why saying "Hey, you're doing less dps than the tank, if you want I can help you with your rotation" is insulting to a stranger, then you are missing basic elements of your understanding of human interactions.

    Most people would instinctively know that unsolicited criticism is perceived as aggression.

    If you don't just know that then you need to at least learn it.

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