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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    This is false. Combats statement can be seen as a fact. You can quote damage meters. What you said was totally subjective and on the extreme side of "advice."
    We're dealing with other humans here. Try telling your girlfriend she should lose some weight for her health, see her reaction. Sure, it's true. She's big and needs to lose some of that ass, but that's definitely not the way to handle the situation.

    It gets even worse when you do that to a stranger in Wal-Mart. Yeah, she's a fucking whale, but I highly doubt telling her, "you're really fat, I can help you lose weight" is really going to get you a good response or make her want to lose weight.

    Again, it's all about communication. If you really want to help that guy, you'll take the effort to effectively open him up to your feedback. Otherwise, it's a subtle insult coupled with charity advice from a stranger. Nobody wants that.

  2. #122
    I am Murloc! Lemonpartyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    Again, POSTITIVE REINFORCEMENT is the answer. Nobody will respond well to "Hey, you're doing less DPS than the tank", because that's essentially the same as saying "You are terrible". It's no surprise you got the answer you did, because even if you were trying to be sincere, it came off as insulting. Think of it like a job. Would you tell an underperformer "You're slower than the intern" and expect them to take it well? Of course not, so why would somebody respond well to that kind of language in a game?
    I would like to think they would respond well, because they are mature, and care about the outcome of that boss fight. I like to think intent is always important when trying to figure out if you're being insulted. I don't think the OP intended it that way. There is really no "nice" way to point out if someone is doing something poorly.

    Saying " You're bad and should feel bad" is obviously meant to insult. Saying "The tanks are out dpsing you, and we just wiped, can you try harder" in my opinion is constructive criticism.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Compstance View Post
    We're dealing with other humans here. Try telling your girlfriend she should lose some weight for her health, see her reaction. Sure, it's true. She's big and needs to lose some of that ass, but that's definitely not the way to handle the situation.

    It gets even worse when you do that to a stranger in Wal-Mart. Yeah, she's a fucking whale, but I highly doubt telling her, "you're really fat, I can help you lose weight" is really going to get you a good response or make her want to lose weight.

    Again, it's all about communication. If you really want to help that guy, you'll take the effort to effectively open him up to your feedback. Otherwise, it's a subtle insult coupled with charity advice from a stranger. Nobody wants that.
    I've actually done that. I joined a gym, and said " I know you've wanted to lose a few pounds, would you like to go to the gym with me?" She said yes, and I still cherish that time as very romantic, running on treadmills together watching lame movies at 5AM in the dark. (This gym had a movie screen) We would run for the full length of the movie, then go home.

    There would be no reason to tell a stranger to lose weight. The difference is, someone doing low dps negatively impacts my raid greatly. A stranger being fat will (arguably) not impact me. See the difference? By joining a team, you are saying " i want to help kill a boss for loot" ... if you aren;t trying very hard, then you aren't holding up your side of the deal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
    Stupid! New things are always much better then the old things...
    New Star wars > old Star wars (crappy special effects anyone lol!)
    Justine Beiber > the beatles (shitty copycats music lol!)
    Twilligt > dracula, do I even need to comment loooool
    yea its probably nostalgia

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    I would like to think they would respond well, because they are mature, and care about the outcome of that boss fight.
    I'm not sure if you're being cheeky here.

    Anyone who has played WoW long enough to get a character to max level and geared enough to get into an LFR knows that this is rarely ever the case. There is a larger percentage of world first players than there are "mature...care about the outcome of that boss fight" players in LFR.

    If you're going in to an LFR expecting to be surrounded by mature players who care about their characters, then the fault lies on you at that point. How things "should be" doesn't really affect how things really are.

  4. #124
    Woop another thread full of people who think "Hey your DPS is bad, want help" is the constructive way to get LFR cleared.
    "Moral reason must learn how to make coercion its ally without running the risk of a Pyrrhic victory in which the ally exploits and negates the triumph."

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Compstance View Post
    I'm not sure if you're being cheeky here.

    Anyone who has played WoW long enough to get a character to max level and geared enough to get into an LFR knows that this is rarely ever the case. There is a larger percentage of world first players than there are "mature...care about the outcome of that boss fight" players in LFR.

    If you're going in to an LFR expecting to be surrounded by mature players who care about their characters, then the fault lies on you at that point. How things "should be" doesn't really affect how things really are.
    Then lets try to make things better, shall we? It should be that way, and just not caring how LFR won't improve the game, the community or anything else. It will only lead to worse and worse experiences for people who want have fun.
    Quote Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
    Stupid! New things are always much better then the old things...
    New Star wars > old Star wars (crappy special effects anyone lol!)
    Justine Beiber > the beatles (shitty copycats music lol!)
    Twilligt > dracula, do I even need to comment loooool
    yea its probably nostalgia

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    I would like to think they would respond well, because they are mature, and care about the outcome of that boss fight. I like to think intent is always important when trying to figure out if you're being insulted. I don't think the OP intended it that way. There is really no "nice" way to point out if someone is doing something poorly.

    Saying " You're bad and should feel bad" is obviously meant to insult. Saying "The tanks are out dpsing you, and we just wiped, can you try harder" in my opinion is constructive criticism.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I've actually done that. I joined a gym, and said " I know you've wanted to lose a few pounds, would you like to go to the gym with me?" She said yes, and I still cherish that time as very romantic, running on treadmills together watching lame movies at 5AM in the dark. (This gym had a movie screen) We would run for the full length of the movie, then go home.

    There would be no reason to tell a stranger to lose weight. The difference is, someone doing low dps negatively impacts my raid greatly. A stranger being fat will (arguably) not impact me. See the difference? By joining a team, you are saying " i want to help kill a boss for loot" ... if you aren;t trying very hard, then you aren't holding up your side of the deal.
    "I know you've wanted to lose a few pounds" is not the same as "you're getting really fat."

    It's been suggested quite a few times that the OP simply change his approach from "you're getting really fat" to "I know you've wanted to lose a few pounds."

    Also, your statement is preceeded by a known desire for improvement on your girlfriend's part, not unwanted advice.

    What is so bad about telling the player, "Hey, I noticed you're missing out on using XXX ability. It works really well with XXX ability. Hope it helps!"

    This statement would be much more likely to encourage the player to improve by doing something he was missing and potentially prompt them to ask more questions.

    Otherwise, you just piss them off, they get defensive, they get worse, and the run gets even slower because you weren't willing to offer helpful advice without a subtle insult.

    It's just the fact of the matter. People are shooting themselves in the foot because they'd rather portray some sense of superiority and shut people down because "it's fact, he's bad" mentalities.

  7. #127
    I am Murloc! Lemonpartyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    Woop another thread full of people who think "Hey your DPS is bad, want help" is the constructive way to get LFR cleared.
    You aren't being very constructive in your posts on MMO-C.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Compstance View Post
    "I know you've wanted to lose a few pounds" is not the same as "you're getting really fat."

    It's been suggested quite a few times that the OP simply change his approach from "you're getting really fat" to "I know you've wanted to lose a few pounds."

    Also, your statement is preceeded by a known desire for improvement on your girlfriend's part, not unwanted advice.

    What is so bad about telling the player, "Hey, I noticed you're missing out on using XXX ability. It works really well with XXX ability. Hope it helps!"

    This statement would be much more likely to encourage the player to improve by doing something he was missing and potentially prompt them to ask more questions.

    Otherwise, you just piss them off, they get defensive, they get worse, and the run gets even slower because you weren't willing to offer helpful advice without a subtle insult.

    It's just the fact of the matter. People are shooting themselves in the foot because they'd rather portray some sense of superiority and shut people down because "it's fact, he's bad" mentalities.
    I don't have that mentality at all, and I don't do it to feel superior. I just want runs in LFR to go as quick and efficient as possible. IN my opinion, stating they have low DPS IS the "I know you wanna lose some pounds" option. The "you're getting fat" option is "you suck at this game."

    Criticism isn't bad, as long as you don't intend to insult or hurt someone in the process.
    Quote Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
    Stupid! New things are always much better then the old things...
    New Star wars > old Star wars (crappy special effects anyone lol!)
    Justine Beiber > the beatles (shitty copycats music lol!)
    Twilligt > dracula, do I even need to comment loooool
    yea its probably nostalgia

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Call it being blunt, stating the obvious shouldn't be considered an insult,
    I just posted evidence (in the post you just responded to) that a fact can indeed be considered an insult. If you don't want things you say to be considered an insult, you need to ensure that your choice of words is appropriate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    not to mention in context to the average mentality of the wow community, the op was quite polite.
    Being the least rude of a bunch of rude people does not qualify one as polite.

    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    A simple no thank you or no would have been fine, but fuck off is an underserved answer.
    A simple no thank you would have been fine, yes.
    F*** off, was however also justified.

    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    So you wouldn't drop hints for a colleague that they are performing poorly and their job might be in danger if they don't get better?
    It's not about the fact that they are performing poorly. It's about how you deliver the message:

    1) "Hey John, how are things going. I am really concerned about you man, would you like to talk about it"
    2) "Hey John - when they fire your ass, I am going to take your office!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Or they are just being too thin skinned and can't deal with such things properly, you chose to perceive it as an insult I don't, something as trivial as that as an insult. Otherwise people would have to be offended all the time.
    It's not about whether you or I perceive it as an insult. It's about whether it is reasonable for some people to perceive it as such. The fact that you can't understand how other people might perceive it as an insult is your failing.

    I used Sheldon Cooper (from Big Bang Theory) as an example earlier. Although he is a fictional character, he is a good example of how someone with zero capacity for empathy is unable to understand the emotional reaction of other people. For example, he regularly derides other people for their various failings and shortcomings. Although he can always defend his criticisms in an objective manner, he cannot understand why they still react negatively to him.

    Same story here.

    If you have a strong empathic sense, it is obvious that telling someone their "dps is worse than the tank's" is an insult. If you don't have that sense it is difficult to explain it to you. You simply have to accept that it is so, just as someone who doesn't understand the math behind gravitional pull has to accept that if you fall off a ladder, it will hurt.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    You aren't being very constructive in your posts on MMO-C.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I don't have that mentality at all, and I don't do it to feel superior. I just want runs in LFR to go as quick and efficient as possible. IN my opinion, stating they have low DPS IS the "I know you wanna lose some pounds" option. The "you're getting fat" option is "you suck at this game."

    Criticism isn't bad, as long as you don't intend to insult or hurt someone in the process.
    I agree, there is nothing wrong with criticism. However, as I've stated a number of times in this thread, it's all in how you communicate it.

    I can yell behind a deaf man all day, but it's not really going to do much. He obviously can't hear me, and nothing I say, no matter how I say it or how loud I say it is going to change the fact that he's just not getting it. Now, should I continue to stand there yelling at this guy telling him how he should really be able to get this...

    Or...

    Should I get in front of this man and take the proper steps to communicate with him? I.e sign language, lip reading, etc.

    It's an analogy, and there are holes, but you should at least get my basic premise: If you want to communicate with someone, take the steps to make sure they get what you're saying.

    Whether we like it or not, the statement the OP made, true or not, is received as an insult. And if you're not going to be willing to just avoid saying that, then just don't say anything. Because all you're doing is wasting your breath talking to someone who isn't going to receive your message.

    And in all honesty, it would be EASIER to leave out the "you're bad" part than it is to put it in. Which again reinforces my thought that the person just can't help themselves but to put a subtle insult.

    "i can help you if you want" is easier, takes less time, and would be more helpful than "you're doing less dps than the tank, i can help you if you want"

    Just food for thought.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    I used Sheldon Cooper (from Big Bang Theory) as an example earlier. Although he is a fictional character, he is a good example of how someone with zero capacity for empathy is unable to understand the emotional reaction of other people. For example, he regularly derides other people for their various failings and shortcomings. Although he can always defend his criticisms in an objective manner, he cannot understand why they still react negatively to him.

    Same story here.

    If you have a strong empathic sense, it is obvious that telling someone their "dps is worse than the tank's" is an insult. If you don't have that sense it is difficult to explain it to you. You simply have to accept that it is so, just as someone who doesn't understand the math behind gravitional pull has to accept that if you fall off a ladder, it will hurt.
    The difference being, in MOST of the Sheldon Cooper "insults," I'm not on his team where I am expected to pull my weight. Most of his quips are seemingly random, when he talks about himself.(Which is often) Pulling a Sheldon Cooper in LFR would be more akin to saying "WoW I'm doing 1 Million DPS! Maybe you simpletons will strive for this much DPS when you're level 200!"

    Can you really not tell the difference between someone asking someone to step up their game, and the remarks Sheldon makes?
    Quote Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
    Stupid! New things are always much better then the old things...
    New Star wars > old Star wars (crappy special effects anyone lol!)
    Justine Beiber > the beatles (shitty copycats music lol!)
    Twilligt > dracula, do I even need to comment loooool
    yea its probably nostalgia

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post



    It's not about the fact that they are performing poorly. It's about how you deliver the message:

    1) "Hey John, how are things going. I am really concerned about you man, would you like to talk about it"
    2) "Hey John - when they fire your ass, I am going to take your office!"

    If John has a nicer office take statement two. Because he knows that is what you really mean and you will be friends longer than if you shine him on and act like you are a care bear.


    Lawful good does not always mean Lawful nice

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    I just posted evidence (in the post you just responded to) that a fact can indeed be considered an insult. If you don't want things you say to be considered an insult, you need to ensure that your choice of words is appropriate.
    The Op was blunt, it is their choice if they want to feel insulted or not and in context it is incredible trivial and not worth to be butthurt over his statement.

    Being the least rude of a bunch of rude people does not qualify one as polite.
    In context how those players are usually treated, he was very polite.
    A simple no thank you would have been fine, yes.
    F*** off, was however also justified.
    Nope a mind your own buisness could have worked as well, but he answered with a direct insult.



    It's not about the fact that they are performing poorly. It's about how you deliver the message:

    1) "Hey John, how are things going. I am really concerned about you man, would you like to talk about it"
    2) "Hey John - when they fire your ass, I am going to take your office!"
    If you take the question of the op into the context of such a toxic playerbase like the wow community, he definitely fits into the first category.


    It's not about whether you or I perceive it as an insult. It's about whether it is reasonable for some people to perceive it as such. The fact that you can't understand how other people might perceive it as an insult is your failing.
    Oh I know it can be perceived as a minor insult, but frankly I don't give a damn if someone is truly offended by something so trivial to the point of actually being insulted they are simply too thin skinned.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Compstance View Post
    I agree, there is nothing wrong with criticism. However, as I've stated a number of times in this thread, it's all in how you communicate it.

    I can yell behind a deaf man all day, but it's not really going to do much. He obviously can't hear me, and nothing I say, no matter how I say it or how loud I say it is going to change the fact that he's just not getting it. Now, should I continue to stand there yelling at this guy telling him how he should really be able to get this...

    Or...

    Should I get in front of this man and take the proper steps to communicate with him? I.e sign language, lip reading, etc.

    It's an analogy, and there are holes, but you should at least get my basic premise: If you want to communicate with someone, take the steps to make sure they get what you're saying.

    Whether we like it or not, the statement the OP made, true or not, is received as an insult. And if you're not going to be willing to just avoid saying that, then just don't say anything. Because all you're doing is wasting your breath talking to someone who isn't going to receive your message.

    And in all honesty, it would be EASIER to leave out the "you're bad" part than it is to put it in. Which again reinforces my thought that the person just can't help themselves but to put a subtle insult.

    "i can help you if you want" is easier, takes less time, and would be more helpful than "you're doing less dps than the tank, i can help you if you want"

    Just food for thought.
    "Subtle" implies that, again, one would INTEND to insult that person. There comes a time when you need to grow thicker skin, instead of feel insulted by every criticism made your way.

    I don't, and won't ever go the "you're bad" route, its lame, not clever and won't help. I just don't feel its reasonable to get upset or feel bad because someone points out you aren't pulling your weight. My reply to that would be either A)How can I do better or B)I'm sorry, I was distracted. Cursing in reply is unwarranted.

    I've tried the insanely nice route. It always get the same type of answer. "Mind your own business" "Its just LFR" "**** YOU!" If someone truly wanted to do better, or wanted help, they would ask for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
    Stupid! New things are always much better then the old things...
    New Star wars > old Star wars (crappy special effects anyone lol!)
    Justine Beiber > the beatles (shitty copycats music lol!)
    Twilligt > dracula, do I even need to comment loooool
    yea its probably nostalgia

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    "Subtle" implies that, again, one would INTEND to insult that person. There comes a time when you need to grow thicker skin, instead of feel insulted by every criticism made your way.

    I don't, and won't ever go the "you're bad" route, its lame, not clever and won't help. I just don't feel its reasonable to get upset or feel bad because someone points out you aren't pulling your weight. My reply to that would be either A)How can I do better or B)I'm sorry, I was distracted. Cursing in reply is unwarranted.

    I've tried the insanely nice route. It always get the same type of answer. "Mind your own business" "Its just LFR" "**** YOU!" If someone truly wanted to do better, or wanted help, they would ask for it.
    That's the thing, taking the time to add something like that in there (with the social environment in which we play in WoW), I honestly believe that if someone has to take the time to say "you're doing less dps than the tank" that it is ALWAYS intended to be an insult. It's never information provided based on an innocent, genuine concern.

    On the other hand, don't get me wrong. I'm not a care bear, I play to win and want to be good at what I do. I'm not of the "I'm okay, you're okay" mentality by any means. But I don't give a shit what people do in LFR and I'm not going to offer some random baddie advice he doesn't ask for because it would be a waste of my time.

    It's like going to the Special Olympics and expecting them to perform like it's the Olympics, or at least not hit all the hurdles, it's just not going to happen. The way I see it, LFR has the same rules as the SO: You sit down, watch and either root them on or keep your mouth shut. But so help you god if you laugh at them or tell them they need to be better... These are the rules, they're not that difficult to follow.

    I am, however, big on the topic of communication which is why this thread has kept my attention to begin with.
    Last edited by Louis CK; 2013-09-25 at 01:59 PM.

  15. #135
    How is this guy not getting it? Youre comment was slightly insulting through text and was interpreted as it as. No matter how much you think it was innocent and neutral telling someone they do as much dps as the tank will not be taken well. You cant insult someone( even if you wont accept it or simply dont see it for whatever reason) and expect them to receive advice.

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Compstance View Post
    That's the thing, taking the time to add something like that in there (with the social environment in which we play in WoW), I honestly believe that if someone has to take the time to say "you're doing less dps than the tank" that it is ALWAYS intended to be an insult. It's never information provided based on an innocent, genuine concern.

    On the other hand, don't get me wrong. I'm not a care bear, I play to win and want to be good at what I do. I'm not of the "I'm okay, you're okay" mentality by any means. I don't give a shit what people do in LFR and I'm not going to offer some random baddie advice he doesn't ask for because it would be a waste of my time.

    I am, however, big on the topic of communication which is why this thread has kept my attention to begin with.
    Maybe I'm just cynical. I don't think many of those types of people want help. I've tried being super nice, but get the same type of crap in response. I honestly feel like people don't care and just want the loot. It is totally unacceptable to be AFKing or doing very very very abysmally low DPS. You are giving your raid and team the finger when you do. Its slower, and wiping is fun for no one. Its just plain disrespectful.

    But I will agree. The off chance you get a genuine person, that actually cares and respects his team, being positive would probably net better results than being negative.
    Quote Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
    Stupid! New things are always much better then the old things...
    New Star wars > old Star wars (crappy special effects anyone lol!)
    Justine Beiber > the beatles (shitty copycats music lol!)
    Twilligt > dracula, do I even need to comment loooool
    yea its probably nostalgia

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    Taken from Wikipedia



    So first up, we have established that just because something is a fact, does not preclude it from being an insult.

    Now, something that is apparent from this thread is that some people will find that opening line to be an insult, and others won't - Fact.

    The ability to understand why someone else would find something insulting, regardless of whether you personally find the comment insulting, is by definition, a function of emotional intelligence.

    Therefore if someone wants to argue that the OP's comment cannot be interrpretted as an insult leaves 2 possibilities:

    1) the person either cannot empathise with the person who perceived the insult (lack of emotional intelligence).
    or
    2) the person is intentionally feigning ignorance (being disingenuous) in order to argue the point.

    Simple logic.
    I typed out a whole wall of text but this is easier.

    I can not empathise with the person who perceived the insult not because of lack of intelligence but because leeching is a much worse insult and that is what people do when they join a group of other people completely unprepared and letting the other people do everything for them. I think he deserved this insult (which I don't take as an insult myself) if he sees it as an insult (which is not even clear because he could be saying "mind your own fucking business" just because he wanted to keep on leeching or just because he is an asshole).

    FYI doing 30k dps is leeching and is not just underperforming. Having such bad performance means you have very serious physical or mental problems or you just didn't bother because you don't care. Which is actually fine but don't expect everyone to be okay with that when they are wiping 20 times in LFR and expect constructive responses (you said yourself you shouldn't).

    I also reacted to your replies like I did because I think it is ridiculous you are so hung up on this little comment, which can be percieved as an insult or not, while the other person starts swearing and is obviously not interested in contributing to a group he/she joined.

    But maybe I just lack social skills. I actually don't really care.

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    The Op was blunt, it is their choice if they want to feel insulted or not and in context it is incredible trivial and not worth to be butthurt over his statement.
    Not true. It is the responsibility of both parties to be reasonable. As the person delivering the comment, one has to make sure not to say something stupid. As the person receiving the comment, the responsibility is to not be oversensitive. So which is it?

    Personally, I believe it is obvious. Just like gravity is obvious. But for those who can't see it, here are a few clues:

    Clue 1: Why did the OP have to insert that initial comment?

    It is a question I have already posed, and you guys have conveniently been avidly avoiding answering it. It adds nothing. Take it out, and his offer to help is just as valid. Put it in, and it is a clear jibe.

    To expand on the fat girlfriend analogy currently in use:

    Would you like to go to the gym with me?
    vs
    Your ass is fat. Would you like to go to the gym with me?

    Clue 2 : A number of people on this forum confirm that this could be considered an insult

    Remember what I said about being reasonable? Well, when it comes to interpretting something as an insult, if 99% of people would not consider something an insult, odds are that the 1% of people who do consider it an insult are being unreasonable (assuming a random distribution).

    If a significant number of people share your opinion though that something could be considered an insult, then it is not unreasonable to feel insulted, regardless of what the person making the comment meant.

    Clue 3: There is no evidence demonstrating that this comment should not be construed as an insult

    You guys are insisting that the burden of proof lies with us to demonstrate that it could be reasonably interpretted as an insult. I believe that is BS. If a significant number of people find something to be potetionally insulting, the burden of proof absolutely falls on the denialists to demonstrate why it should not be regarded so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    In context how those players are usually treated, he was very polite.
    According to you, players tend to treat other players badly. Do you not agree then that it is reasonable for people to expect to be treated badly, and insulted on a regular basis?

    So, given that this player has become accustomed to insults regarding his dps, it stands to reason that a comment that could be interpretted as an insult, WILL be interpretted as an insult.

    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Nope a mind your own buisness could have worked as well, but he answered with a direct insult.
    If you insult someone, you should not be surprised when they respond in kind. The person in question perceived an insult, and there are sufficient people on this forum who would agree with him to legitimise his interpretation of the comment as an insult. Therefore, his acerbic response, although not strictly necessary, was justified.

    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    If you take the question of the op into the context of such a toxic playerbase like the wow community, he definitely fits into the first category.
    No. If you assume the playerbase to be that "toxic" then maybe what was actually needed is option 3:

    3) "Hey John - I am going to make sure your ass gets fired. Then I am going to spit and piss on you and throw your ass out the door while I phone your wife to tell her what a loser you are."

    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Oh I know it can be perceived as a minor insult, but frankly I don't give a damn if someone is truly offended by something so trivial to the point of actually being insulted they are simply too thin skinned.
    And at last we have the truth. You know it's an insult. You don't care.

    I think the lock in question knew that his "F*** off" response was an insult. If people want to go around being derogatory to other "lesser" players, then they are asking for it.

    Maybe the OP was genuinely trying to be nice. Sorry but I just don't buy it. He was deliberately being condescending, assuming the "lesser" player would simply act subserviently and be thankful that someone as awesome as the OP was paying attention to him. I don't think he expected quite the backlash he got, but he should have.
    Last edited by Raelbo; 2013-09-25 at 03:32 PM.

  19. #139
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    LFR is one of most reasons, why i still consider to upgrade my account or not...

    See all your expiriences with LFR, i really worried about that... Also Flexible can be even worse, than LFR?
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  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesoPL View Post
    LFR is one of most reasons, why i still consider to upgrade my account or not...

    See all your expiriences with LFR, i really worried about that... Also Flexible can be even worse, than LFR?
    Personally I'd not worry about it too much. Most LFR runs are fine, and a lot of fun. But it's boring making MMO-C threads about them, and even more boring replying :P

    So people moan about the odd one that sucks. In many cases the people complaining about LFR are actually the ones causing the problems!


    My LFR experience last week was as follows:

    Entered a fresh LFR, when Immerseus was on one stack of determination (ie the group had wiped once, someone had left, I joined). I had to wait about 5 mins for a second tank, then we one shot the boss.

    Fallen Protectors: We had to wait about 10 mins for the group to fill up because a tank and some healers left (presumably they had finished the last bosses already). We had decent people who explained in very basic terms what to do, we one shot the encounter.

    Sadly I to go because I hadn't given myself enough time (I thought an hour might be enough, but it wasn't).

    I requeued the next day. Started at fallen protectors on 1 stack. 1 shot it. Wiped once on Norushen. One shot Sha.

    Overall the vibe in both instances was decent. People were chatty without being "toxic" at all. No afkers. Dps wasn't spectacular, but it was enough. People learned from mistakes (eg Norushen), and followed instructions.


    My one flex raid was a bit disappointing but not because it was a bad experience. The people in the group were nice enough, no raging or insults or anything like that. The raid leader explained tactics fine. The only problem was performance. A lot of people wanted to try it, but clearly weren't prepared. Many had gear that wasn't good enough, and many died to fire that any seasoned raider would easily handle.

    On the plus side, people were patient and friendly and trying to improve. I think given a few weeks, with those guys getting some experience and gear upgrades (from the isle and from LFR), they'll get up to the level where they can start progressing. And that's what it is really about.

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