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  1. #461
    Pit Lord MrApple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnmatrix View Post
    Well killing spree is unpeelable too, don't forget that one
    Killing Spree doesnt make you immune to crowd control which Bladestorm does
    Epic!

  2. #462
    Quote Originally Posted by Johnmatrix View Post
    But "Warrior scaling sucks" is always funny to hear. It's used by people who don't even know what that means. If you went and asked them, why does warrior scaling suck, most of them would not be able to answer to you. Arms warrior scaling does suck in PvE compared to many other specs but that is because of secondary stats. They do not have mechanics that benefit enough from increased haste and mastery for example. That however does not mean that they suck in pvp because pvp is played with far less secondary stats than pve because of the lower item level, and haste as a stat isn't even remotely as useful in pvp as it is in pve because you will never have 100% uptime on your target. So it does not matter that you don't benefit from haste. My ret for example benefits hugely from haste in pve, but gemming plain haste for pvp would be just stupid because of the nature of pvp.

    However warriors are built to scale very well with weapons. They have lots of attacks based on weapon damage and arms has passives that increase melee or 2h damage for a certain amount and getting a new 2h-weapon benefits arms warriors more than most melee.
    Warrior scaling sucks because of secondary stats outside of crit being next to useless; far more useless than haste on a ret. Haste reduces the cd AND gcd on many of your major abilities. Thats useful as hell. Haste on a warrior is not even noticeable, especially in D stance where white attacks dont even generate rage. Our mastery is probably the worst pvp dps mastery in game. Crit is our only useful secondary stat, and it has no effect on the basically autocrit Overpower which is (or used to be at least) a primary part of our rotation.

    Also, we don't scale well with strength either. We have no special benefit from strength and weapon damage'ing attacks dont scale as well with strength (deep wounds being the exception and generally understood to be OP atm). Dks get passive % str bonuses, rogues get passive % agi bonuses, rets get spell power to go with their attack power increase (as with enh), most melee get some form of additional benefit from their primary stat. Thats why every warrior stacks crit; however outside the grevious weapon our damage won't go up by nearly as much as everyone else's from gear. Will have to see what happens at full gear levels but I imagine it will balance out fairly well, except maybe deep wounds.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    Getting the phrase "PUSSY DESTROYER" tattoo'd on your face isn't a smart move for your career.

  3. #463
    Quote Originally Posted by MrApple View Post
    Killing Spree doesnt make you immune to crowd control which Bladestorm does
    Try stunning or polymorphing a rogue during killing spree. Watch the word "immune" pop over his head. Rethink what you said.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
    i7-860 @2.8GHz | Radeon HD 7770 | 8GB DDR3-1333MHz | Corsair CX 430W |

  4. #464
    How would you folks feel about;

    -MSR being changed to replace SR
    -Defensive Stance at 15% for Arms/Fury
    -DS being put on a 3-5 second CD after using Pummel

    Keep in mind warrior damage can not and should not be touched due to still being one of the weakest single target specs in the game for PvE.
    That fact alone means that nerfs will come from the utility side.

    -- Signature by /the/ Crazytaco --

  5. #465
    Epic! Sainur's Avatar
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    Seriously.

    How pathetic.

    All sorts of classes, especially mages have been OP throughout the ages, while warriors kept getting hit by the giant red NERF button. Now warriors are slightly OP, and all sorts of people go and complain about how OP they are. Now you know how us warriors felt when we kept getting frozen by mages and couldn't do fuck all when rogues were dominating us. Now the tables have been turned.

    Let us warriors enjoy our OPness for godsake before Blizzard nerfs our class to shit again.
    "The sword is mightier than the pen, and considerably easier to kill with."

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  6. #466
    Quote Originally Posted by Knolan View Post
    Dude, seriously, stop defending warriors as they are fine, you are just making a fool of yourself. You can't counter a warrior by simply slowing him cause he got slows himself (you remember hamstring, right?), gap closers, blade storm (which is the ONLY offensive skill in the game that you get no way to control) and also he may reflect some of the slows. Also, if that is the only way to stop him, there are several classes in the game that will remove this weakness with a freedom skill (pally, shaman, hunter, monk and druids).

    After reading your posts on this thread I can only see you as a biased person who would say that s5 dks were fine if you were a DK. Also, it raises me a question to which patch did you reach your 1.9k rating mark.

    Finally, now that most people got the new weapons that would make people even with warrior because "warrior scaling sucks" as most warriors were claiming, can you guess what happened to their representation?
    It increased 2.9%... (To a humble 17.9%, 2.8% behind the hunters of last season) who would have see that coming? (Hint: everyone but warriors).
    Hamstring was only just brought on par with other slows. Wait, no it wasn't, it's still one of the worst slows in the game in requiring it's own unique ability, not being tied to a baseline damage effect and/or not being ranged like other slows.

    Other melee also move faster than warriors while other ranged have more potent slows or roots or can simply abuse mechanics like any mildly competent player has been for the past 9 years. Learn to jump charges (yes, it still works), learn to 6-9yd kite a warrior, learn to read what the warrior might do; I myself am able to consistently reflect deep freezes and mortal coils against mediocre warlocks, good mages and locks will hand my ass to me in a platter because they won't be so predictable. YOU'RE the problem if you're having trouble with warriors, not warriors being overpowered.

    And NO ONE saw that coming because no one on PTR was bitching about warriors more than any other class. Warriors are overrepresnted because of gear disparities, because people aren't at their offensive best to pressure a warrior to sit in defensive stance and gain little rage, because players are now learning to cope with warrior mechanics that were a shit ton easier to read back when you could see a shield pop on the warrior or could dismantle the warrior before he could pop a shield wall. Warriors are now mixing in well with many MANY comps, warriors alone do not carry any one comp and are in fact still having to be baby sat when it comes to high end games where players no what they're doing.
    Last edited by Flaks; 2013-10-14 at 06:28 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
    i7-860 @2.8GHz | Radeon HD 7770 | 8GB DDR3-1333MHz | Corsair CX 430W |

  7. #467
    Pit Lord MrApple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    Try stunning or polymorphing a rogue during killing spree. Watch the word "immune" pop over his head. Rethink what you said.
    So Killing Spree makes the rogue immune to ALL forms of CC? Did not know that!
    Epic!

  8. #468
    Quote Originally Posted by MrApple View Post
    So Killing Spree makes the rogue immune to ALL forms of CC? Did not know that!
    It does. The only difference between it and bladestorm is that bladestorm can be used while you're disarmed to end the disarm early (very silly use of the ability). In every other way killing spree maintains the advantages of bladestorm with the only other difference being that killing spree does massively more single target damage than bladestorm while bladestorm is by far the strongest short term aoe ability in the game.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MrApple View Post
    New signature!
    You know, I wanna duel you on PTR so I can walk you through step by step on how to beat me. Something tells me I'd annihilate you without batting an eye and could then show you a skilled player of your class hand my ass to me a moment later.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
    i7-860 @2.8GHz | Radeon HD 7770 | 8GB DDR3-1333MHz | Corsair CX 430W |

  9. #469
    Pit Lord MrApple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    It does. The only difference between it and bladestorm is that bladestorm can be used while you're disarmed to end the disarm early (very silly use of the ability). In every other way killing spree maintains the advantages of bladestorm with the only other difference being that killing spree does massively more single target damage than bladestorm while bladestorm is by far the strongest short term aoe ability in the game.

    - - - Updated - - -



    You know, I wanna duel you on PTR so I can walk you through step by step on how to beat me. Something tells me I'd annihilate you without batting an eye and could then show you a skilled player of your class hand my ass to me a moment later.
    Whatever floats your boat I guess :/
    Epic!

  10. #470
    Pit Lord Kezotar's Avatar
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    Bad mages and bad rogues can't beat warriors anymore... THEY'RE OP!
    I7 - 4930K / 16 GB - 1600MHZ / R9 290 Core 1220 MHZ - Memory 1550 MHZ

  11. #471
    Quote Originally Posted by MrApple View Post
    So Killing Spree makes the rogue immune to ALL forms of CC? Did not know that!
    Yes. It has always done this since its inception.

    I will say that killing spree is the only reason to play combat rogue. You are entirely mitigated by armor, with blades your only brief respite, and you don't have the power of dance. Landing a red spree is your only kill tech. It is a good one, however.

  12. #472
    Pit Lord Kezotar's Avatar
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    The only real change that has happend is that bad players no longer can beat warriors. Good play still crush warriors.

    It's better this way, at least players that don't know their class can't beat us anymore in a instant.

    Let's pretend our 7k HP/S is what makes us so overpowered.. (giggle)
    I7 - 4930K / 16 GB - 1600MHZ / R9 290 Core 1220 MHZ - Memory 1550 MHZ

  13. #473
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    Hamstring was only just brought on par with other slows. Wait, no it wasn't, it's still one of the worst slows in the game in requiring it's own unique ability, not being tied to a baseline damage effect and/or not being ranged like other slows.

    Other melee also move faster than warriors while other ranged have more potent slows or roots or can simply abuse mechanics like any mildly competent player has been for the past 9 years. Learn to jump charges (yes, it still works), learn to 6-9yd kite a warrior, learn to read what the warrior might do; I myself am able to consistently reflect deep freezes and mortal coils against mediocre warlocks, good mages and locks will hand my ass to me in a platter because they won't be so predictable. YOU'RE the problem if you're having trouble with warriors, not warriors being overpowered.
    All the melee specs in the game together don't reach the representation of warriors (168 vs 176), surely I am the problem.
    S11 rogues were fine, as last season hunters.

  14. #474
    Quote Originally Posted by Kezotar View Post
    Bad warriors can get high rated and beat pretty much anyone again... THEY'RE FINE!
    Fixed it for you.

  15. #475
    Quote Originally Posted by Knolan View Post
    All the melee specs in the game together don't reach the representation of warriors (168 vs 176), surely I am the problem.
    S11 rogues were fine, as last season hunters.
    Simply put, you are. A ret, uh dk, feral, sub/mut rogue, enhance shaman, ww monk all have rank 1 viable comps let alone gladiator viable. If you're not able to pull off a high rating as any of those specs, it's because you have learning to do.

    What Blizzard did with warriors undeniably lowered the skill floor of the class. But the ONLY people that effects are those that were never going past 1600 rating anyways with our without a warrior presence.

    Also, warriors are overrepresnted because of gear disparities, because people aren't at their offensive best to pressure a warrior to sit in defensive stance and gain little rage, because players are now learning to cope with warrior mechanics that were a shit ton easier to read back when you could see a shield pop on the warrior or could dismantle the warrior before he could pop a shield wall. Warriors are now mixing in well with many MANY comps, warriors alone do not carry any one comp and are in fact still having to be baby sat when it comes to high end games where players no what they're doing.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
    i7-860 @2.8GHz | Radeon HD 7770 | 8GB DDR3-1333MHz | Corsair CX 430W |

  16. #476
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    Simply put, you are. A ret, uh dk, feral, sub/mut rogue, enhance shaman, ww monk all have rank 1 viable comps let alone gladiator viable. If you're not able to pull off a high rating as any of those specs, it's because you have learning to do.

    What Blizzard did with warriors undeniably lowered the skill floor of the class. But the ONLY people that effects are those that were never going past 1600 rating anyways with our without a warrior presence.

    Also, warriors are overrepresnted because of gear disparities, because people aren't at their offensive best to pressure a warrior to sit in defensive stance and gain little rage, because players are now learning to cope with warrior mechanics that were a shit ton easier to read back when you could see a shield pop on the warrior or could dismantle the warrior before he could pop a shield wall. Warriors are now mixing in well with many MANY comps, warriors alone do not carry any one comp and are in fact still having to be baby sat when it comes to high end games where players no what they're doing.
    Do you mind to explain me that part? As I said the representation (which is over 2.2k) increased from 5.7 to 17.9, if those changes affect only 1.6k rated players as you mentioned, we would expect that players over 2.2k (which is far higher), wouldn't be affected.

    EDIT:
    To be fair on the bladestorm argument, there are 0 combat rogues right now that are over 2.2k, and I haven't seem one in my arena matches for weeks now (I just saw one or two in the first week).
    Last edited by Knolan; 2013-10-14 at 09:54 PM.

  17. #477
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    Simply put, you are. A ret, uh dk, feral, sub/mut rogue, enhance shaman, ww monk all have rank 1 viable comps let alone gladiator viable. If you're not able to pull off a high rating as any of those specs, it's because you have learning to do.

    The same was true of warriors last season, but warriors needed buffs. Now, I'm pretty sure, they need nerfs. Having a rank 1 viable comp is interesting, but it isn't really useful to imply that everyone is a rank 1 player, any more than it is to go to these very forums and expect people to run as fast as Usain Bolt.

    What Blizzard did with warriors undeniably lowered the skill floor of the class. But the ONLY people that effects are those that were never going past 1600 rating anyways with our without a warrior presence.
    The warriors buffs were substantial, and affect all levels of play. At every level, a warrior can now keep up more damage when pressured than before, for instance. Everything got better, warriors went up to wildly overrepped. If someone is pointing at 1800 and 2200+ numbers and showing that warriors outnumber all other melee specs and classes combined, you really need to understand that this is an issue and not just be like "but somewhere there's a gladiator who isn't a warrior".

  18. #478
    1900 last season on my ww with a disc healing me. This season i'm at 1670. All we meet are warr with any healer. I peel all i can, disarming, range stun, ring of peace on my priest. Basically messing with the warr as much as i can. He still wack my priest like butter. I can't go for the other teams healer cause the warrior would kill my priest waaaaay before i could build up burst to get him down. Usually we focus dps and controlling the healer. But as long as the warr is hitting a priest. There's no time to ever get a cc off. Mc is a joke, cause he would be dead before it ends, roots are a joke aswell, the warr will oneshot them just like he would oneshot the psyfiend. It just feels like our rating is gimped just because 2 out of 3 teams are warr with healer and we have no way of winning, unless ofc if the warr is beyond bad or his healer dc. The only times we win seems to be when he goes for me wich helps my priest alot. Then he can cc all day long with all my defenses. I even love to drag out the fight after he kills my priest, cause i can kite and self heal almost forever. Maybe it's my fault going with a disc, but still, disc ww should'nt just have to surrender to ever warrior. But this is my only problem with them, they eat disc priests. They are not op against anything else. I have a warr aswell. And playing him with the same priest just to see how they feel. Popping everything makes my slams crit for 100k back to back, wich is fun. But almost every team has a disarm or whatever to control it until avatar etc is over. But it's only priests that falls like flies, everything else seems to have a counter for my dmg. Was easy 1600, i'll give you that, but by far over powered. I just wish i knew how to deal with them as disc, ww.

    TL; DR: warriors are not op, just eating priests.

  19. #479
    Simply put, the warrior fanbase is a pretty vocal one, for reasons I'm not really sure about, and whenever warriors are OP, they constantly tell us things are fine, even when the numbers tell us that's wrong. Early this season I was of the "too close to call" camp, because warriors DID need buffs. But now they have wild synergy with tons of things, are mostly the kings of small scale combat, and generally are solid in any pvp situation, a claim that many OP classes and specs of the past have not been able to lay claim to. They also have pretty absurd rep again in 3s. I'm pretty comfortable in saying they need some small nerfs, but I'm mostly disturbed by the Blizzard stance that they do not (Blizzard claims the numbers are ok, which is a pretty fundamental disagreement about the dataset).

  20. #480
    Warrior is the class for ppl who dont have the brains to play any class that requires the slightest form of skill. Warrior+Healer is the single most OP shit in this game. It doesn't take much skill to just mash buttons while the enemy healers goes oom in just a matter of minutes trying to outheal the ridiculously OP dmg warriors are able to do.

    PS: I laugh my ass off when i hear ppl using the argument "Uh we only received nerfs throughout the years so now that we are OP its ok". No, just no. You have never been that class in the game that just kept getting nerfed. If anyone atm believes that warrior aren't OP then please uninstall now.
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