Nerf arms warriors thread

[Flaks]

Killing Spree doesnt make you immune to crowd control which Bladestorm does

Try stunning or polymorphing a rogue during killing spree. Watch the word "immune" pop over his head. Rethink what you said.

[Schwert]

How would you folks feel about;

-MSR being changed to replace SR
-Defensive Stance at 15% for Arms/Fury
-DS being put on a 3-5 second CD after using Pummel

Keep in mind warrior damage can not and should not be touched due to still being one of the weakest single target specs in the game for PvE.
That fact alone means that nerfs will come from the utility side.

[Sainur]

Seriously.

How pathetic.

All sorts of classes, especially mages have been OP throughout the ages, while warriors kept getting hit by the giant red NERF button. Now warriors are slightly OP, and all sorts of people go and complain about how OP they are. Now you know how us warriors felt when we kept getting frozen by mages and couldn't do fuck all when rogues were dominating us. Now the tables have been turned.

Let us warriors enjoy our OPness for godsake before Blizzard nerfs our class to shit again.

[Flaks]

Dude, seriously, stop defending warriors as they are fine, you are just making a fool of yourself. You can't counter a warrior by simply slowing him cause he got slows himself (you remember hamstring, right?), gap closers, blade storm (which is the ONLY offensive skill in the game that you get no way to control) and also he may reflect some of the slows. Also, if that is the only way to stop him, there are several classes in the game that will remove this weakness with a freedom skill (pally, shaman, hunter, monk and druids).

After reading your posts on this thread I can only see you as a biased person who would say that s5 dks were fine if you were a DK. Also, it raises me a question to which patch did you reach your 1.9k rating mark.

Finally, now that most people got the new weapons that would make people even with warrior because "warrior scaling sucks" as most warriors were claiming, can you guess what happened to their representation?
It increased 2.9%... (To a humble 17.9%, 2.8% behind the hunters of last season) who would have see that coming? (Hint: everyone but warriors).

Hamstring was only just brought on par with other slows. Wait, no it wasn't, it's still one of the worst slows in the game in requiring it's own unique ability, not being tied to a baseline damage effect and/or not being ranged like other slows.

Other melee also move faster than warriors while other ranged have more potent slows or roots or can simply abuse mechanics like any mildly competent player has been for the past 9 years. Learn to jump charges (yes, it still works), learn to 6-9yd kite a warrior, learn to read what the warrior might do; I myself am able to consistently reflect deep freezes and mortal coils against mediocre warlocks, good mages and locks will hand my ass to me in a platter because they won't be so predictable. YOU'RE the problem if you're having trouble with warriors, not warriors being overpowered.

And NO ONE saw that coming because no one on PTR was bitching about warriors more than any other class. Warriors are overrepresnted because of gear disparities, because people aren't at their offensive best to pressure a warrior to sit in defensive stance and gain little rage, because players are now learning to cope with warrior mechanics that were a shit ton easier to read back when you could see a shield pop on the warrior or could dismantle the warrior before he could pop a shield wall. Warriors are now mixing in well with many MANY comps, warriors alone do not carry any one comp and are in fact still having to be baby sat when it comes to high end games where players no what they're doing.

[Deleted]

Try stunning or polymorphing a rogue during killing spree. Watch the word "immune" pop over his head. Rethink what you said.

So Killing Spree makes the rogue immune to ALL forms of CC? Did not know that!

[Flaks]

So Killing Spree makes the rogue immune to ALL forms of CC? Did not know that!

It does. The only difference between it and bladestorm is that bladestorm can be used while you're disarmed to end the disarm early (very silly use of the ability). In every other way killing spree maintains the advantages of bladestorm with the only other difference being that killing spree does massively more single target damage than bladestorm while bladestorm is by far the strongest short term aoe ability in the game.

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New signature!

You know, I wanna duel you on PTR so I can walk you through step by step on how to beat me. Something tells me I'd annihilate you without batting an eye and could then show you a skilled player of your class hand my ass to me a moment later.

[Deleted]

It does. The only difference between it and bladestorm is that bladestorm can be used while you're disarmed to end the disarm early (very silly use of the ability). In every other way killing spree maintains the advantages of bladestorm with the only other difference being that killing spree does massively more single target damage than bladestorm while bladestorm is by far the strongest short term aoe ability in the game.

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You know, I wanna duel you on PTR so I can walk you through step by step on how to beat me. Something tells me I'd annihilate you without batting an eye and could then show you a skilled player of your class hand my ass to me a moment later.

Whatever floats your boat I guess :/

[Kezotar]

Bad mages and bad rogues can't beat warriors anymore... THEY'RE OP!

[Verain]

So Killing Spree makes the rogue immune to ALL forms of CC? Did not know that!

Yes. It has always done this since its inception.

I will say that killing spree is the only reason to play combat rogue. You are entirely mitigated by armor, with blades your only brief respite, and you don't have the power of dance. Landing a red spree is your only kill tech. It is a good one, however.

[Kezotar]

The only real change that has happend is that bad players no longer can beat warriors. Good play still crush warriors.

It's better this way, at least players that don't know their class can't beat us anymore in a instant.

Let's pretend our 7k HP/S is what makes us so overpowered.. (giggle)

[Knolan]

Hamstring was only just brought on par with other slows. Wait, no it wasn't, it's still one of the worst slows in the game in requiring it's own unique ability, not being tied to a baseline damage effect and/or not being ranged like other slows.

Other melee also move faster than warriors while other ranged have more potent slows or roots or can simply abuse mechanics like any mildly competent player has been for the past 9 years. Learn to jump charges (yes, it still works), learn to 6-9yd kite a warrior, learn to read what the warrior might do; I myself am able to consistently reflect deep freezes and mortal coils against mediocre warlocks, good mages and locks will hand my ass to me in a platter because they won't be so predictable. YOU'RE the problem if you're having trouble with warriors, not warriors being overpowered.

All the melee specs in the game together don't reach the representation of warriors (168 vs 176), surely I am the problem.
S11 rogues were fine, as last season hunters.

[Johnmatrix]

Bad warriors can get high rated and beat pretty much anyone again... THEY'RE FINE!

Fixed it for you.

[Flaks]

All the melee specs in the game together don't reach the representation of warriors (168 vs 176), surely I am the problem.
S11 rogues were fine, as last season hunters.

Simply put, you are. A ret, uh dk, feral, sub/mut rogue, enhance shaman, ww monk all have rank 1 viable comps let alone gladiator viable. If you're not able to pull off a high rating as any of those specs, it's because you have learning to do.

What Blizzard did with warriors undeniably lowered the skill floor of the class. But the ONLY people that effects are those that were never going past 1600 rating anyways with our without a warrior presence.

Also, warriors are overrepresnted because of gear disparities, because people aren't at their offensive best to pressure a warrior to sit in defensive stance and gain little rage, because players are now learning to cope with warrior mechanics that were a shit ton easier to read back when you could see a shield pop on the warrior or could dismantle the warrior before he could pop a shield wall. Warriors are now mixing in well with many MANY comps, warriors alone do not carry any one comp and are in fact still having to be baby sat when it comes to high end games where players no what they're doing.

[Knolan]

Simply put, you are. A ret, uh dk, feral, sub/mut rogue, enhance shaman, ww monk all have rank 1 viable comps let alone gladiator viable. If you're not able to pull off a high rating as any of those specs, it's because you have learning to do.

What Blizzard did with warriors undeniably lowered the skill floor of the class. But the ONLY people that effects are those that were never going past 1600 rating anyways with our without a warrior presence.

Also, warriors are overrepresnted because of gear disparities, because people aren't at their offensive best to pressure a warrior to sit in defensive stance and gain little rage, because players are now learning to cope with warrior mechanics that were a shit ton easier to read back when you could see a shield pop on the warrior or could dismantle the warrior before he could pop a shield wall. Warriors are now mixing in well with many MANY comps, warriors alone do not carry any one comp and are in fact still having to be baby sat when it comes to high end games where players no what they're doing.

Do you mind to explain me that part? As I said the representation (which is over 2.2k) increased from 5.7 to 17.9, if those changes affect only 1.6k rated players as you mentioned, we would expect that players over 2.2k (which is far higher), wouldn't be affected.

EDIT:
To be fair on the bladestorm argument, there are 0 combat rogues right now that are over 2.2k, and I haven't seem one in my arena matches for weeks now (I just saw one or two in the first week).

[Verain]

Simply put, you are. A ret, uh dk, feral, sub/mut rogue, enhance shaman, ww monk all have rank 1 viable comps let alone gladiator viable. If you're not able to pull off a high rating as any of those specs, it's because you have learning to do.

The same was true of warriors last season, but warriors needed buffs. Now, I'm pretty sure, they need nerfs. Having a rank 1 viable comp is interesting, but it isn't really useful to imply that everyone is a rank 1 player, any more than it is to go to these very forums and expect people to run as fast as Usain Bolt.

What Blizzard did with warriors undeniably lowered the skill floor of the class. But the ONLY people that effects are those that were never going past 1600 rating anyways with our without a warrior presence.

The warriors buffs were substantial, and affect all levels of play. At every level, a warrior can now keep up more damage when pressured than before, for instance. Everything got better, warriors went up to wildly overrepped. If someone is pointing at 1800 and 2200+ numbers and showing that warriors outnumber all other melee specs and classes combined, you really need to understand that this is an issue and not just be like "but somewhere there's a gladiator who isn't a warrior".

[dar0]

1900 last season on my ww with a disc healing me. This season i'm at 1670. All we meet are warr with any healer. I peel all i can, disarming, range stun, ring of peace on my priest. Basically messing with the warr as much as i can. He still wack my priest like butter. I can't go for the other teams healer cause the warrior would kill my priest waaaaay before i could build up burst to get him down. Usually we focus dps and controlling the healer. But as long as the warr is hitting a priest. There's no time to ever get a cc off. Mc is a joke, cause he would be dead before it ends, roots are a joke aswell, the warr will oneshot them just like he would oneshot the psyfiend. It just feels like our rating is gimped just because 2 out of 3 teams are warr with healer and we have no way of winning, unless ofc if the warr is beyond bad or his healer dc. The only times we win seems to be when he goes for me wich helps my priest alot. Then he can cc all day long with all my defenses. I even love to drag out the fight after he kills my priest, cause i can kite and self heal almost forever. Maybe it's my fault going with a disc, but still, disc ww should'nt just have to surrender to ever warrior. But this is my only problem with them, they eat disc priests. They are not op against anything else. I have a warr aswell. And playing him with the same priest just to see how they feel. Popping everything makes my slams crit for 100k back to back, wich is fun. But almost every team has a disarm or whatever to control it until avatar etc is over. But it's only priests that falls like flies, everything else seems to have a counter for my dmg. Was easy 1600, i'll give you that, but by far over powered. I just wish i knew how to deal with them as disc, ww.

TL; DR: warriors are not op, just eating priests.

[Verain]

Simply put, the warrior fanbase is a pretty vocal one, for reasons I'm not really sure about, and whenever warriors are OP, they constantly tell us things are fine, even when the numbers tell us that's wrong. Early this season I was of the "too close to call" camp, because warriors DID need buffs. But now they have wild synergy with tons of things, are mostly the kings of small scale combat, and generally are solid in any pvp situation, a claim that many OP classes and specs of the past have not been able to lay claim to. They also have pretty absurd rep again in 3s. I'm pretty comfortable in saying they need some small nerfs, but I'm mostly disturbed by the Blizzard stance that they do not (Blizzard claims the numbers are ok, which is a pretty fundamental disagreement about the dataset).

[Odyseas]

Warrior is the class for ppl who dont have the brains to play any class that requires the slightest form of skill. Warrior+Healer is the single most OP shit in this game. It doesn't take much skill to just mash buttons while the enemy healers goes oom in just a matter of minutes trying to outheal the ridiculously OP dmg warriors are able to do.

PS: I laugh my ass off when i hear ppl using the argument "Uh we only received nerfs throughout the years so now that we are OP its ok". No, just no. You have never been that class in the game that just kept getting nerfed. If anyone atm believes that warrior aren't OP then please uninstall now.

[Yvaelle]

How would you folks feel about;

-MSR being changed to replace SR
-Defensive Stance at 15% for Arms/Fury
-DS being put on a 3-5 second CD after using Pummel

All decent ideas

The problem I generally see with warrior talents are the ability to choose between damage and damage+stuns in multiple tiers. Bladestorm and Dragon Roar have to be extremely potent to overcome the added utility of Shockwave's stun - alternately Shockwave has to deal non-trivial damage to compensate for the lesser damage it deals compared to its competitors.

In actuality, we're comparing Apples to Oranges - but we're comparing all the Oranges on Apple metrics, and all the Apples on Orange metrics - and Blizzard is seemingly unwilling to recognize the conflict. The same thing is true for Stormbolt in PvP. Bloodbath has to kill people to compensate for the loss of Avatars root+snare break and superior damage cooldown, Stormbolt has to do sufficient damage to not suck on the damage metric, and yet also provides a stun which the others don't.

If they want to make those tiers into damage tiers, that's fine - pick different situations in which the talents should excel and stick to it - but tacking on utility or CC breaks into those tiers makes the whole balance of it wonky.

Warriors have always been in a precarious position in PvP though - I hope they get a proper overhaul in 6.0 - because they deserve it. They are still struggling with mechanics that were awkward in Vanilla.

Keep in mind warrior damage can not and should not be touched due to still being one of the weakest single target specs in the game for PvE.
That fact alone means that nerfs will come from the utility side.

Actually after the Deep Wounds debuff, Arms passed Fury in single target DPS - and is now doing above average. Keep in mind the Affliction and Demonology parses are still bugged/being worked on as of this post - so they're obviously simming in way below what they actually do.
http://simulationcraft.org/540/Raid_T14H.html




I'm not saying a damage nerf is necessarily the way to go - but the argument that it can't be done because of PvE isn't valid.

[Mormolyce]

Well killing spree is unpeelable too, don't forget that one

To be fair, in PVP Killing Spree is like throwing a bowl of wet spaghetti at someone.

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"this whole new "fake casting" thing is something I can't quite do"

for you its a L2P issue nothing more then that.1st- "fake casting" is not new,its been in game since day 1.newer and bad players have no clue about that,because blizz has giving casters so many instant casts to make things easy for them.you as a caster "fake cast" to get whoever/what ever is on you to wast there interrupt.then once said interrupt is wasted,you the caster then cast said spell.whats thay you said?the dps on you has more then 1 interrupt?well u can instant cast, or fake cast again, or LOS, or get a peel, or just straight up heal threw what ever is hitting you.

stop trying to blame the warrior class for your short comings as a player.if you cant fake cast then like i said its a l2p issue.we all know priest love dks and their NKS right?

Fake casting only helps juke interrupts, it doesn't do shit against sustained damage, stuns, cc breakers and low cd gap closers like he was actually complaining about.